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Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 8/15/2019 5:31:14 PM
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Dispelling the myth that Well needs nerfed

A LOT of people don't understand how math works. 1. A well adds 35% damage per player and it does not stack. If a fireteam of 6 people deal a total of 1000 damage, the well increases that to 1350 damage. If each guardian is doing 1000 damage, each guardian does 1350 damage x 6 = 8100 damage, 35% higher than the 6000 they would've done without a well. You're not doing 210% more damage and percentages don't "add up" like that you uneducated morons. 2. "It makes the game worse because all you do is sit in a well and fire" Inaccurate. Bungie keeps creating encounters where the most logical thing to do is sit in a well and spam fire. Nerfing it doesn't make encounters anymore difficult, simply longer because guardians are dealing less damage. In fact, with a worse well, you're just spamming the fire button for a longer period of time, making the encounter more tedious. In D1, raid bosses and mechanics forced movement frequently. Well doesn't work in King's Fall or Wrath of the Machine because you have to run around and do shit basically the whole time. It works in EOW because the boss' crit spot faces one direction, it doesn't move, and neither do you for the whole damage phase. *Edit* In the instances where well would've worked in D1, people DID use Titan bubbles which were functionally identical. It buffed weapons making for quicker encounters and made you invulnerable to damage. The only difference was the 19 pixel strafe to get into and out of the Bubble. Nobody called for nerfs to the Bubble because "every raid encounter needs a bubble!". Stop bringing it up, you will lose that comparison. 3. "It's broken or whatever the non warlock mains keep saying " There's a video of a hunter one shot meleeing a raid boss to death. There are videos of 6 hunters killing Calus and finishing EOW in under 15 seconds with celestial nighthawk and golden gun spam. Some dumb ass streamer wants to talk about a well of radiance that helps guardians finish an event approximately 35% faster and THAT'S the broken thing Bungie fixes? Sorry, but no. Hunters have been leaning on Celestial Nighthawk since D1 and do things with it that warlocks can only dream about. You can break various aspects of this game with all characters. 4. "it's still broken cuz you can one phase bosses" We were one phasing every raid encounter back in Y1 with regular rifts before well ever existed and nobody complained then. You can one phase any strike boss with a well coordinated fireteam without a warlock present at all. Blinding Wells aren't any harder without them and, frankly, the only reason they're useful in Leviathan is because of the reload mechanic with Lunas while shooting skulls during the Calus encounter. 5. "Something something warlocks are OP" You can still beat a prestige EOW final encounter in under 20 seconds with 6 hunters. Can't do that with 6 warlocks. Careful where you toss your OP badge, idiots. Celestial Nighthawk + one guy to tether with Orpheus Rig was the original one phase cheese and you can still mostly do it. 6. "Phoenix Protocol means infinite rifts!" No, you (the warlock) have to kill/assist mobs to generate the new super energy. If there are none (or very few), you get no super energy and it's a useless exotic. Never mind that most self respecting warlocks wear Lunafaction boots to raids and have since year 1, before well ever existed. The infinite well trick only works in the blind well and that's assuming you put it in the right place and get bullets in most of the bad guys that appear. The exotic doesn't just give you free super energy for existing. It's not Bernie Sanders armor. 7. "You're functionally invincible in a well" In PvE, maybe. It's a super after all. They're not called "mediocres". However, in PvP, you absolutely are not invincible. It being mostly useless in pvp because of the fast TTK is why lost of us use nova bombs or the other solar super. 7. "Datto is popular and everything he says is right." Datto gets paid money to play a game you all paid for and play without monetary gain. He is not you, he does not represent you, and his views only serve himself and his popularity. They should NEVER be a guide Bungie uses to dictate mechanics to the rest of the player base, none of whom play the game as often or [i][u]for the same reasons[/u][/i] as a damn streamer. This is his job. It is our hobby. He does not and will never want the same things we do. 8. "Nerf Lunafaction boots" If you nerf Lunas, then OEM, Celestial Nighthawk, and basically every other good exotic better -blam!-ing well be on that list too. Either you burn everybody or leave well enough alone. The effects people whine about are all a combination of an exotic piece of gear and a SUPER. the well isn't infinite without exotic armor and it doesn't reload your weapons without exotic boots. Take into consideration that most players don't get paid money to play the game like Datto or play the game for 4000 hours like many of you. A lot of people don't have those exotics and are staring down the barrel of a super being made pointless for a reason they never got to experience. 9. "Well Datto has a point" Nobody gave a shit about Lunas, wells, or rifts before Datto posted his bullshit rage bait nonsense video about it. Nobody cared if a warlock had a well and Lunas. These were not issues that needed to be fixed. It's just a bored streamer in mid August playing a game nobody is gonna care about for another 2 months with no content to make so he invented a problem and complained about it. Content creators in YouTube do that literally all the time. It's not a real problem, he just needs a paycheck and chose Wells to complain about this time. Nothing he said made any actual sense to a warlock main who actually plays this game. 10. "Well something something pinnacle events well of radiance" You're just salty that nobody cares about your rally barracades anymore. Keep in mind that this is a SUPER with an EXOTIC paired together and Titan and Hunter mains have no problems coming into this community to defend their crutches (One Eyed Mask, for instance). 11. "Bungie is gonna do it anyway" Yeah, screw that miserable company. Why would anybody buy Shadowkeep if they're gonna grind and grind for good stuff just to have it nerfed every time some whiny brat streamer makes a cry video about it. Whatever. -blam!- you, Bungie. 12. "It makes the game boring" No, the game is already boring. Well just made it faster and easier, which is what a Super is supposed to -blam!-ing do. Sure the argument is made that it forces players to play somewhat differently, the fact remains that exotic + super combinations are used as crutches by all subclasses in all aspects of the game. It's disingenuous to single out solar-locks with Lunas when Titans and Hunters also have broken ass mechanics with exotics and supers. Why not change how they play too? Or has this dwindling community somehow, some way not gotten tired of Jotunn noobs or sliding-shotgun titans with OEMs? *edit* Adding one more 13. "It adds variety to the game" This one is difficult to argue in a vacuum because a lot of us do use Well in the same circumstances (mostly raid encounters). However, there are many items, supers, and mechanics that dictate how people play. OEM + Dusk Rock Blues Titans are still an overwhelming favorite for PvP players. Machine Guns and 1k Voices are immensely popular by invaders in Gambit. Hell, guardians cheese Flashpoint by intentionally not doing the public event (and not letting anyone do it) so they can fast travel back and redo the event a second time. People will skip to the end of Last Wish to farm 1k voices and not even do the rest of the raid. And the complaint is that Well reduces the number of ways people play? Thus, the idea of Nerfing well for the sake of "variety" while ignoring all of the other game breaks, cheeses, and gear/supers that dictate how people play is basically just an absurd witch hunt dreamt up by a guy who just needed something to talk about in August when there's nothing to talk about in this game. "I like fixes as long as long as it doesn't change how I play" is a bad reason to change how thousands of people play a video game and "because a streamer said so" is not respecting the people who paid $100+ for this game and all its DLC. Streamers aren't representatives. We did not vote for them.
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  • Edited by JD: 8/15/2019 4:17:59 PM
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    WELL 100% needs to be nerfed into the ground it turns you into a god that can’t die and never has to reload. You’re insane if you think it doesn’t have to be nerfed and it 100% stacks with melting point, tractor cannon and shattering strike. You saying it doesn’t stack just tells me you have no clue what you’re talking about.

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    • I think I‘ve read enough. I‘m a warlock main and I didn’t care about the nerf until now. Datto just said simple things, something even my little brother could say, but you made a whole lot of sense out of it! I hope everyone on this post gets the message. we all know Bungie is to stupid to decide what’s balanced and what not. We the "playerbase" should... [b]NO,[/b]we [b]do[/b] know better. [spoiler]I‘m on my way to Datto in person to shit on him for creating a problem out of nowhere![/spoiler]

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      • Hey, players want to use it and they obviously want to melt bosses fast. What's the problem? Try and convince me that spending another minute shooting at that statue final Boss bullet sponge is more challenging and makes you a better player? Go ahead, convince me.

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        • LMAO found every warlock main.

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          • Didnt read it all tbh, but im with you. In the end, you know what bungie... just remove all supers so we can be using the same so no one can complain. And...why not...just do the same with guns, even throw same rule for armor.

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          • Did anyone even comprehend what OP said!? If they nerf Well, they’ll just find another “monster” to take its place. Next up people will use empowering rift and rally barricade like they did in D2 vanilla, and after they nerf that because Datto’s diapers are still soggy, they’ll go after melting point, tether, and eventually bubble because of it’s weapons and blessing of light. Do you not see the cycle? You dethrone one DPS king and another will take its place which eventually will lead to nothing being useful in raids because Bungie isn’t competent enough to design any encounter that DOESN'T require Well + Luna

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          • Just shift some of the power in WoR into Bubble. To say Well doesnt need nerf is kinda lying. Its an Fps game for starters. People cant even do jumping puzzles so imagine if they did add complex mechanics to work around it.

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          • All.Of.This.

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          • Streamers have way too much say so. As a warlock main I have to correct you on the Phoenix. Phoenix allows for near infinite wells and not just the warlock but the team standing in the well grants massive super energy even with the nerf 75% is still considerable compared to the treatment ahamkara and shards got. I'm going to tone down my critique until shadowkeep and if it doesn't deliver then I cannot continue supporting this game.

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            • "Bernie Sanders armor" 🤣

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            • *sips coffee* Excellent points!

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            • This post is near perfect However you’re trying to convince a group of people that follow a moron that he’s wrong Some of these idiots call him dad You can’t reason with this level of daddy issue stupidity

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              • People are missing the point entirely. The problem is Boss Mechanics AND Auto loading features One of those needs to change

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                • Well only makes easy activities easier. In Chasm of Screams, we were getting insta-melted inside the well. That tells me they can easily make the challenging stuff challenging without nerfing something that isn't OP to start with.

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                • 2
                  You had me until you started insulting everyone who didn’t know better

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                • 7️⃣....works for all 'influencers' & 'content creators' 👍

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                • Well done mate ! 💯 agree

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                • Calus would like to point out this "Datto" human is the same one that cried like a little mindraped psion when he didn't get world first in the raid, and blamed Bungie for it. Now he speaks his annoying mind, Calus severely abhores it mind you, and pretend to do it for all who play Destiny. What kind of idiocy is this?

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                  • [quote]12. "It makes the game boring" No, the game is already boring.[/quote] This, right here. Most nerfs don't address actual flaws in the game. Most nerfs make things take longer to complete. Which generally points to a flaw with the mechanics, not the item.

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                  • You reference all these other bugs/cheeses/exploits that people take advantage of that reduce the variety of gameplay. Yes, those are all good points in that players are the ones reducing variety as well (at the expense of players that want variety, it's worth noting). But that's not a valid point to argue that bungie shouldn't nerf well, those points have nothing to do with well. At least this one change might add some variety, there's some hope in that. Maybe it won't and it'll only make things last longer, we'll just have to see. Maybe shadowkeep will steer away from "sit still and shoot" strategies. Maybe it won't. Either way, well just made things too easy, and it won't hurt to have it not as effective. Yes, everything could be done easily without well. Duh. Well just made it brainlessly easy most of the time.

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                    • Edited by WormChi: 8/15/2019 2:29:16 PM
                      For a game that has great movement the encounters should promote great movement. I shouldn’t be punished for using blink in endgame but rewarded. Same for shadestep and shoulder charge. Think 🤔 if Riven was tearing down the citadel and while you were fighting him you were jumping from falling debris and dps at the same time? How you gonna use well then? This is just an example of design that would promote roaming supers in endgame. Beloved subclasses shouldn’t suffer for lazy endgame content.

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                    • Ah yes, all of the amazing PVE titan combinations. Let me remind you, OEM doesn’t work with supers anymore. Y’all made sure of that. Please tell me what titans have in PVE. I’ll wait.

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                      • While point 1 is correct on damage, you'd need to add total DPS calculations with Luna into the mix. Luna is the thing that ultimately ends up breaking the well. I'm totally fine with Titans adding a barricade to the mix so you need two different classes to make the melt happen, but with Luna Warlock can just one man every need the team has.

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                      • Tldr, your clutch is gone. Time to learn how to play the game son👍

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                        • Well of Radiance is just fine where it is. I wouldn’t even use it if it wasn’t for Bungie creating encounters where adds come from all sides (including behind you) and constantly pairing Blackout with those encounters. It’s completely useless in PvP, and mostly useless in Gambit because invaders can wipe your team with the Truth. Honestly it’s always amazed me that I can be nearly invincible standing in a Well in PVE taking fire from all sides, but in PvP I don’t even notice any difference, I get killed seemingly just as fast as I do without the Well.

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                          • Of course well of radiance doesn’t need nerfed. If some people, including some at Bungie, think it makes content too easy or removes the challenge then there’s a very straightforward solution. Don’t use it. Use something else instead. There’s no need for Bungie to ruin things for all of the normal or less skillful players because of the top 5-10%.

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