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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by KaptainWilly: 8/14/2019 5:19:05 AM

Making a Class Weaker Isn't Helping Them. You're Making a Big Mistake...

***TLDR***---There is a long, detailed segment in this post. If you just want the main ideas, stop reading when you get to the big italic quote. If you've read part 1 of Director's Cut by Luke Smith, then you'll know what I'm talking about. If not, I'll sum it up for you: a little while back, a certain well-known Youtuber/Streamer made a "rant" about some things in Destiny 2. Around half of that rant was directed at Well of Radiance, and he basically said that its broken and needs a nerf to make the game too easy. Some other content creators and players have voiced similar opinions, and think that Well of Radiance is restricting Warlocks to always use it, therefore making other supers irrelevant. This isn't true, but we'll get to that. Anywho, in the writing from Smith, it becomes apparent that they are siding with [the streamer] and feel the Well needs "adjustments". Both Luke Smith and the content creators have pitched this nerf as a sort of "saving grace" for Warlocks, saying that it frees us to use whatever we want. This logic is [i]beyond broken[/i]. Take a moment and think about what they're saying--[i]we're gonna make your character worse, and thats gonna be good for you[/i]. I know I'm not the only one who sees issues here. Quite simply, nothing good comes from a nerf to Well. Sure, some players might have the illusion of choice as to what they use, but they're gonna be stuck using things that aren't ideal. If you wanna run a raid with Chaos Reach in the future, guess what? It'll be the same as running a raid with Chaos Reach now (unless they decide to buff the other Warlock supers). Since thats no different, why not just [i]run the raid with the super you want [b]now?[/b][/i] I also wrote a long response to another post earlier, concerning the fact that players really don't always have to use Well. I'm just gonna copy and paste that here, and that'll be all. [i]"Again, you're argument is just assumptions and generalities that don't hold ground. If we look solely at PvE, what requires the Well? Lets take a look at the Raids: Last Wish: The strategies for Shuro Chi, Morgeth, and Riven all center around a Well, while it is also frequently used against Kalli as a means to speed up the encounter. While it is useful, it is not "necessary", and is no more difficult to do without the Well. That leaves 3/6 encounters using a Well as a primary strategic piece, yet it does have to be noted that it improves the chances of a one phase. Its also important to note that only Shuro Chi usually calls for two Wells, while the rest of the encounters typically use one and then fill in the gaps with rally Barricades and rifts. So, in this raid, 3 encounters require a Well for the fastest completion, with an option for a 4th. Scourge of the Past: Heavily utilizes Well in Boss Phase 2 against Insurrection Prime (in fact, this is the most Well-heavy encounter in Year 2). Ideally you'd have 3 Wells, although most runs do it with 1-2 Wells and Rally Barricades due to a lack of Warlocks. No other encounters in Scourge of the Past "require" Well of Radiance. Crown of Sorrow: Like Scourge, Well is heavily used during the damage phase of the final boss. The need is less intense though--some teams will use 2 Wells, but often times you use one Well, and then luna-rifts and Rally Barricades when the Well expires. Sometimes Well is used on the first boss phase, but is far from a requirement due to the short bursts of damage and the mobility of the boss. It is more of a preference thing, and most times you see teams rely more on Rally Barricades and Luna Rifts, leaving the Warlock to use Nova Bomb in combination with a tractor cannon. So, if we count all raid encounters in Year 2, and get rid of the non-combat sections (the Sparrow section in Scourge of the Past, and the jumping puzzle in Crown of Sorrows), it leaves us with 12 combat based encounters total: Last Wish has 6 (Kalli, Shuro Chi, Morgeth, Vault, Riven, Queenswalk), Scourge of the Past has 3 (Rooftops, and Boss Phase 1 and 2), and Crown of Sorrow has 3 (Vessels, Deceptions, and Gahlran). Of these 12 encounter, only 5 use Well as a "necessary" part of their strategy, although you could factor in Kalli as well and call it 6. So lets say 6/12 encounters use the Well, which is half of year two raid encounters. Now, lets compare this to something else--say, the Hunter's Golden Gun with Celestial Nighthawk. This is used on all boss damage phases, no exceptions, so that checks off Riven, Insurrection Prime, and Gahlran--3 encounters. It is also the most used Hunter super throughout the rest of CoS, as it is the best way to quickly take down Ogres, so you can add Vessels and Deceptions into that pool. Moving along, Celestial is almost always used during both Kalli and Morgeth in Last Wish, as no other supers are really needed. Against Kalli, it is frequent to see a Tether to handle thrall during DPS phase, but there is almost always only one player running this, and the rest run Celestial. That totals to 6 or 7 out of 12 year 2 encounters pushing Hunters to use Celestial--which is greater than or equal to the number of encounters that "require" Well. So why am I going into all of this? Well for one, I looked at your profile on Raid Report. I didn't do it to judge you or anything--I think everyone can play or not play whatever they want. However, I wanted to see what your experience was like as a baseline for the discussion, and sure enough I saw that you haven't raided in 78 weeks, and haven't touched a year 2 raid. Again, I'm not saying this to be offensive and I how you don't take it that way, I mean no disrespect. It is very relevant to the discussion though--raids are supposed to be the pinnacle of endgame PvE, and what your talking about is a nerf that almost solely affects PvE. If you don't raid, then the only modes that really "require" a Well are Reckoning and Heroic Menagerie, so that's barely scratching the surface of endgame PvE. Forges, Blind Well, Gambit, and Strikes don't require a Well at all--you'll occasionally see one here or there (with Forges at the highest rate, Strikes at the lowest), but it is not "necessary" by any definition of the word. I asked you to provide factual evidence to support a nerf of Well, saying how it hurts the game/players and how the nerf would make things better. Your response is still just hypothetical talk, saying that "content will be designed around Well". I understand the remarks about Sunsinger and Bubble in D1, but that doesn't automatically apply here. You don't nerf stuff proactively--thats how you ruin stuff unnecessarily. Instead, you nerf it reactively--when there is actual evidence of something hurting the game, you tone it down. [b]That[/b] is why OEM and Striker need adjustments--they have been hurting players for ages (almost a year in the case of OEM). You say we demand nerfs for any outlier in Destiny--again, this is a false statement. Literally nobody asked for Whisper to be nerfed, and nobody wanted to see adjustments to Orpheus Rig, Phoenix Protocol, or Skull of Dire Ahamkara (unless they reaaaalllly hated Warlocks, and I do think Skull could've been toned down a tad but not this much). The only nerfs hat 99.9999% of people ever want are PvP nerfs, because that when things give players an unfair advantage over other players--in other words, "hurting" the players, and therefore the game. Well doesn't hurt anybody, and literally nobody benefits from it being nerfed. Therefore, nerfing the Well [b]will[/b] hurt the players, and consequently the game."[/i]

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