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originally posted in: Director's Cut: Part 1
Edited by Organic Machine: 8/15/2019 12:49:58 PM
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Thank you for the long post of info. I appreciate it. I have a long, honest response. I will also ask a question that I have asked here multiple times and never gotten any sort of official response on. I like the fact that this is all being communicated to us, so kudos to that, but I am not exactly hopeful of what I have read so far. Not exclusively so, but I’m more worried than hopeful. When Luke said that the game will always have to straddle the line of action and RPG, I just think you’re setting yourself up for failure in a way. In a way where you’ll ALWAYS be in a tight spot with issues, and in a way that will always mean isolating large portions of the player base. One of the major things that has always bothered me about this game, and still does, is the rigidity. Nearly everything of significance is activity specific, and it’s spread across the entire experience. I think that’s a problem, and here’s why. The game is VASTLY different from one activity to the next. The game goes from a solo-able story campaign, to public squares that both have activities that can be done solo to ones that require other players, to required matchmade activities, to PvP, to PvE/PvP blend, to super challenging activities with no matchmaking that are comparable to synchronized swimming. It’s all over the place. Which COULD be great, but I don’t think currently is because it’s either do ALL these vastly different things, or miss out on gear. In a loot based game, heavily restricting access to loot is not a good thing. I feel like I have to to jump back and forth between football, solitaire, ping pong, golf, baseball, pinball, synchronized swimming.... How many people actually enjoy all those very different things enough to regularly play them all? I think it’s an unrealistic expectation that does NOT consider how and why many people play video games in the first place. NO game can be everything to everyone, and it feels like Destiny is trying to do that. I appreciate the aesthetic of themed gear, I really do, but the source of gear is something that I have always thought was a problem. Per what I stated above, it’s SO restricting. I don’t like the feeling of logging into a game with the thought “what do I HAVE to do today” and would prefer to think “what do I WANT to do today.” And obviously I don’t HAVE to do anything, but if a player tries to only play the things they legitimately enjoy, they only have half a game. THAT’s how vastly different the activities in DESTINY are. I think Destiny would benefit IMMENSELY from multiple paths of progression/acquisition in a way that caters to players being able to play the type of activities they like the most. I think Destiny would benefit IMMENSELY from either/or options. I think Destiny would benefit IMMENSELY from alternate versions of certain activities where the amount of rewards is balanced by challenge and time invested. For example: raids. Raids are like nothing else in the game. If there was a matchmade version of raids that was similar to The Menagerie, but with checkpoints and the ability to fail an encounter, where players acquired A SINGLE piece of raid gear each week, and it was designed in a way where the player either does that version or the full version each week, not both. Not everyone, and based on participation and completion numbers, likes the sychnonized swimming, timed, trail and error mechanics. I’d raid with all three characters, every week, if I actually enjoyed it. With all that being said, I know I don’t speak for all, but I’d prefer to spend the majority of my post story time in the open world as opposed to closed fireteam activities that don’t ever change.. Question time: I’ve asked this multiple times here and never gotten any sort of official response. Why don’t you lean on your open worlds more? Is there a technical reason? Do you just not want to? Is it not possible to have level scaled versions of them? I ask because I really think they could be used to alleviate things like the tedium of doing the same exact activities that never change, overall rigidity of pursuit steps, etc. I think they could really be used to give players more options. They could be overhauled in a way that has them being used as a means to infuse the game with variance which would alleviate a lot of the community strife. Edit: The positives of Pt1. Accessing Eververse from orbit, changing the pursuits tab(separating bounties from pursuits), making more activities like Escalation Protocol and The Menagerie. Edit 2: As usual, people seem to think that I’m asking for raids to be watered down. And as usual, I am not. I’m asking for an ADDITIONAL, ALTERNATE version that rewards SIGNIFICANTLY LESS rewards each week that can be done in place of the full version. It’s an either/or option. If anyone actually reads this, thank you. While not necessary, any comments would be appreciated.
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  • Good post i agree that most of destiny feels inaccessible or just outright against teamwork. Raids are only available if you already “kwtd” I don’t have a problem about people wanting to play with experienced players but when every raid party excludes new players not to mention competitive pvp which is its own mess. I used to enjoy pvp in d1 but the weapon choices that they have brought in and the pinnacle weapons in d2 have ruined it.( talking about all of those weapons that don’t require any aim) I whole heartedly agree with the supers and spawns having a problem I have countless times spawned into the path of a roaming super or right next to someone with a shotgun. D2 just doesn’t feel like destiny to me it’s just wearing a convincing mask. As someone who uses a controller on PC I also feel like I’m using a permanent handicap when competing against mouse and keyboard users.

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  • Make your own post and learn the raid for yourself like everyone else. Not hard. LFG is trash and you shouldn’t go there unless you’re prepared to deal with that. Stop EXPECTING to be carried.

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  • I think you misunderstood my point but thanks for your input it’s very constructive.

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  • You had no point. You actually had to say you feel as a disadvantage on PC because you’re using a controller and not kbm? That’s s YOU problem. You’re choosing an inferior controller. But this is what Destiny has become I guess. Something that people now want to actively hold their hand through every activity including the pinnacle Endgame stuff. Seriously? Maybe you’re not well suited to being a gamer. Try another hobby and ask for your hand to be held as you’re learning about the hardest things to do in it. Let me know how that goes.

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  • You seem to have an awful lot of pent up aggression and anger, have you talked with anyone about it? It could be very beneficial for you. Thanks for your input, you are truly font of knowledge on the matter.

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  • Good luck getting Bungie to cater to your laziness.

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  • Get well soon. Sending good vibes m8.

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  • Read Smith's post, felt confident that my decision not to preorder Shadowkeep was sensible.

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  • Menagerie IS the raid for solo players. THAT is your matchmade raid experience. It’s great and it had to be specifically tailored to not require communication so that groups of solo players can complete it. Raids aren’t going to be matchmade because they aren’t going to tailor their pinnacle Endgame activity around solo players who can’t communicate with their team. That’s just something you’ll have to deal with. I’m all for more activities like Menagerie, but I don’t want raid quality sacrificed because of people who don’t play well with others and/or choose to remain solo.

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  • Edited by Organic Machine: 8/15/2019 12:47:20 PM
    I didn’t say sacrifice it. I never do and yet people ALWAYS seem to think I’m asking them to just water down raids. I said PROVIDE AN ALTERNATE version. It wold be an ADDITIONAL, OPTIONAL version and players would have the option to: 1. Do the full version and get 4-5 pieces of raid gear a week. Or.... 2. Do the matchmade version and get A SINGLE piece of raid gear a week. The key word there is OR. One or the other each week, not both. This balances the amount of reward based on time investment and challenge. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

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  • No

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  • Riveting rebuttal.

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  • You’re sounding bad enough on your own. So just “no” is plenty.

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  • I have yet to see a good enough argument against something like this. The usual responses I get are from the tryhards that don’t want people to have the things they have because they somehow feel that if someone earns something in a different way or at their own pace that it takes away from their experience. No player’s path of progression or acquisition affects another. I only want options because the game is near suffocatingly rigid. Not just for myself, but for others, even people that want to earn things in ways that I wouldn’t want to because again, how they earn something doesn’t affect me.

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  • If you want to earn it, you can. Every activity has its own rewards. I understand that you can’t seem to accept that acquiring an item requires you to do specific activities. I just don’t care. Want item A that comes from activity A? Do activity A. That simple. No one is forcing you to get that item. You want it, so learn how to do the activity you need to do to get it. That’s how video games work. This mentality that wants everything to be easy and handed out to players is trash. You wanna get raid loot? Raid. With a team. Stop asking to be handed out loot for failing. You want pinnacle crucible weapons? Earn them. Stop asking to be handed loot for failing. You want quest loot? Do the quest. Laziness is all this is about. The game is WAY too easy. Glad DC part 2 just came out and doubled down on this. Want max level? Gonna have to raid or play other endgame activities now pal. Deal with it.

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  • Thank you for proving my point. “If you want it, do it this way” is the most absurd mentality because it doesn’t HAVE to be that way. This is entertainment. Not work. Not chores. It’s an escape from life. Again, this would not affect anyone. That’s the result of options.

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  • So you should be able to choose the activity and the reward for it? That’s the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard. Move along and be a loot beggar somewhere else.

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  • You’re sick of hearing something that wouldn’t actually affect you. That’s the great things about OPTIONS. You’re the one that needs to move along.

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  • I’m not having this argument with another idiot. No resources should ever be dedicated to this garbage. Earn your loot and stop crying.

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  • You are a sad human being.

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  • So sad that I’m actually willing to earn things. Keep asking for handouts. Someday someone will give you something for nothing.

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  • No. It’s sad that you’re enjoyment is dictated by what other players have and how they get it.

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  • Edited by GrundleBeans: 8/14/2019 8:43:50 PM
    You can still make challenging raids with the same concept as Menagerie simply by using the "fail forward" concept. Players could fail at an encounter and still get rewarded SOMETHING. Some non-raid exclusive gear you're going for and maybe for completing the activity you get 1 powerful engram per week/character (as opposed to 1-2 powerful drops at each encounter). To get the exclusive raid-specific rewards would then still need teamwork and communication in order for people to [i]successfully[/i] complete each encounter and thereby ensure they get all of the raid rewards, not just some or none. We also wouldn't be spending HOURS banging our heads at one encounter just because 1 guy can't get their shit right. [b]In short[/b], quality of raids doesn't diminish and neither do the rewards for being successful. Regular raiders would still face the same kinds of challenges they like, but raids would become more accessible to more people and would waste less of people's time. People learn by doing/failing and therefor less need to ask for carries or spend a bunch of time googling youtube videos to figure things out before ever stepping foot in a raid.

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  • No. If Bungie wants more activities like Menagerie they can make them their own separate thing. Enough with this delusion of matchmade raids already. It’s not gonna happen. Bungie does not need to be wasting the time of the raid team on people who can’t function in a group.

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  • What do you mean just "no"? You get your way, more people will raid and get good at it, and those with dedicated 6-man teams who communicate well still get their rewards. If strangers can do it without communication, then it just goes to prove your presumptions about communication being required to raid are wrong. Menagerie is already the closest thing to matchmade raiding without the "you must complete this or die and start over" and it has gotten the most positive reception than any previous activities besides Shattered Throne. All bungie has to do is provide a matchmade option, make encounters timed to help people learn and get experience while not wasting their time if they fail, and put all the best raid rewards behind successful completion of encounters. Or make the rewards tied to extra challenges that need communication. Shutting people out with elitism doesn't make anything better or help anyone.

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