JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

8/14/2019 6:00:08 AM
25
Why? The funny thing is Luke Smith complains that they're exhausted and burnt out but... from what? There's barely any content in the annual pass and the menagerie is a just a 6 player strike with raid mechanics and crap loot. The Forge is barely content, with a timer (with more not-so-hot loot). Gambit is horrid all around. The Drifter needs to take a long walk off a short pier. PvP is great if you like watching the enemy team teleport away when they're near death. Shadowkeep looks a lot like the Moon in D1, recycled. And then Luke had the brass pair to complain about "mean" feedback. After the lies, xp throttling and everything else they've done over the years. But they still persist in bad choices spearheaded by Smith: No matchmaking for end game content (the "best" content in Destiny no less), pvp quest lines for story content, nerfs, catering to the try-hard elitists, etc. Destiny is a fractured game, so they're constantly trying to balance and create content for roughly 3 groups of players who all want different things. Until they decide what kind of game they want to make and for what type of player, nothing will ever really change. Their go to solution for years has been "lets just force everyone to play how we want them to, then they'll see how fun it is". It's not working. And it never will. Luke "throw money at the screen" Smith can say what he wants, but Bungie has a [i]recent[/i] history of lying and deceptive behavior, as well as ignoring feedback until their bottom line is affected. Maybe they're trying to turn that around. But it ultimately won't mean anything if they can't figure out what type of game they're making or who they're making it for.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm going to preface this with the fact that I don't agree with a lot of what Bungie does, their policies, or the direction they take this game some times. That being said, your post is ridiculous and you don't understand how game development works. These things take a lot of TIME and EFFORT to create. They are working on content year round to keep up while also juggling things like balancing, bugs, smaller updates, listening to and making small changes based on feedback, laying groundwork for future improvements and additions, and actual boring business shit like meetings and conference calls, and so much more. It seems like it's not such a big deal to you because you have no idea what the -blam!- you're talking about.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by My Finger Points: 8/16/2019 9:32:29 PM
    Uh huh. Do you own stock in Bungie or something? Still, the annual pass was not worth $30. As someone else already pointed out, the menagerie wasn't even made by Bungie and that was arguably the larger content drop. And the context was the annual pass or at least the workload in that time period, not whatever they're working on outside of that (that was the stated cause of "burnout", was it not?). Decaf bro. Try some ;)

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • The context is that the annual pass/seasons is a lot and its on top of other stuff they're working on. Seriously, stop for a second and consider the amount of stuff they deliver each season (every 2-3 months). New events, which need to be tested, new weapons that need to be tested, new quests that need to be tested, new activities that need to be tested and refined, new armor, new reward systems and sources, new vanity items, and new raids. All on top of dealing with the usual stuff that comes with keeping a live game up and running, and creating/laying groundwork for new content and changes, and dealing with the normal stuff that comes with running a business. They are overworked. If you haven't been living under a rock you know that most big developers are being overworked because it's near impossible to keep up with player expectations of a live game.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm so sorry, I never realized they did all of that for [b][i]FREE[/i][/b]. I'm supposed to sympathize when Smith all but admitted that they'll eventually be moving onto Destiny 3, meaning the vast majority of Bungie devs are likely working on that, leaving a small team to try and manage the live game. THEY made that decision. For a $30 price tag, there was barely anything in the Annual Pass. If they burnt out working on that, when the Managerie was built by an entirely different studio, that's on them. Instead of trying to cash in on short term profitability on numbered sequels, maybe they should redirect their focus to supporting the game they have. I never said it was easy. When they ask for money up front, I stop caring how hard they job was and start looking at value. Compared to similarly priced content (Forsaken, Shadowkeep), there was barely anything in the Annual Pass. A lot of developers are overworked. You know what else has come to light recently though? Epic levels of incompetent leadership from these big developers. Actually, Destiny 1 is guilty of this. So consumers should just pay more for less because Bungie can't properly manage itself? I respectfully disagree.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Nobody said it was for free. You can still overwork while getting paid. The point was that they tried their best to deliver as much content as they could, given the time constraints and other responsibilities, and it still wasn't enough for people like you. Also, it may have not been enough content for the price to you but to others it was. Get over yourself. Try to be objective. It was $30 for a purchase that lasted a -blam!-ing year. Nobody forced you to buy anything beforehand. If you bought the annual pass without knowing what was included that's on you. Again, I don't agree with Bungie in a lot of regards. I don't like the way they handle certain things and, quite frankly, I think they've squandered the potential of this franchise. [b]BUT[/b] on this subject I believe they worked hard and delivered a fair amount of content for the price.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm glad you believe that. [i]I do not share that belief[/i]. I'm not sure why you're trying so hard to convince me (are you a Bungie dev?). Don't take my opinion so personal. P.S. - I still think the annual pass was overpriced and lacking in content ;)

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Do you have a PayPal I can donate to? I can't imagine what your living conditions must be like if you value $30 so high. I'm feeling really guilty about all those times I ordered Pizza, got just enough gas to get to work, and bought Starbucks for my friends for the same amount of money that could have covered your living expenses for a year! Sarah Mclachlan was right. For just $2.50 a month I could be saving a child in need.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Damn you're a butthurt little snowflake. Go away. Muted. Bye

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Burned out exactly from that. They work, prototype, discuss, but... nothing comes out of it. Remember WWI underground war, when both sides used gargantuan amounts of explosives, but still couldn't break through lines? Something like that. I'm not gamedev, but sometimes even in construction industry on design/planning phase you feel like that fly, ramming glass pane with forehead, without ability to go through. And I don't even mean all those phases of negotiations between agencies, customers and contractors. And not, I'm not defending bungee. I have a very long list of complains towards their "platform". Not sure it won't serve as motivator to alcoholism for some more touchy members of the team, so community managers probably won't let them read it anyway.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I'm trying not to be such a d*ck towards them all the time, but damn if they don't make that difficult. It's worrying because they complain about burnout, yet from a customer/content perspective there was barely anything in the annual pass. How do they expect to make actual new content if they can't handle something like the annual pass?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Beware, wall of text incoming, no tl;dr available. It's complicated. :) I never accused you in acting that way in the first place. Sorry if it sounds like I did, never had intention to. I'm not game developer, I did some modding, but that's not the same, it never was my job. Thus I don't have first hand experience on gamedev related burnout. My first hand experience is mostly limited to construction work. and let me tell you, despite all hilarious moments, sometimes you do feel like quitting. Even rage quitting. Through a window, like in that meme comic. Burning out is relatively simple, yet not so process. You may sincerely love your job, but meeting some obstacles you can't overcome may build up that wearing out feeling. That's the problem with overall tiredness, including emotional one. It builds up, up to extent you can't convince yourself to do anything. Anyone who regularly goes to gym knows this. It's not a "plateau", when your progress stops for some time, it's that overtraining fatigue. It's not a joke, it's not a myth, it is reality. Same principle works not only for our body (muscles and nerves), but on psychological level as well. Gamedev is one of victims if this - there are usual crunches (not physical exercise) and overtime. And there is more. Imagine: you're not really that stupid, nor your hands grow from your arse, you have a talent, yet nothing you do bears fruit. For weeks, maybe months. There are some developers who worked at a lot of projects, but... never released one. Some were shelved even at prototyping stage. So they constantly go from one canned project to another. But there is more. According to scuttlebutt, bungee and their engine suffers from relatively same problem Bethesda's Gamebryo does, is what I call "public portable toilet booth" problem - no matter how pretty you paint it, it still stinks. In case of engine - they are outdated. They may be well known to the team, familiar to work with... but inefficient. To release new DLC team basically rewrites entire game from scratch. I'm not saying this is the exact case, but scuttlebutt...:) In more "real world" examples - imagine a car where you have to disassemble about half of it, to do some mundane task, such as swapping oil or refuel. While this is an exaggeration, this is pretty correct in some vehicles, when you have to replace battery, some safety fuses, refill AC unit, or replace a bulb. I kid you not, I feel like some cars were designed by aliens, because humans don't bend this way. But I digress. Necessity to use a lot of proverbial WD-40 and duct tape to make every new release to work, also adds stress. Not on entire team, but each department has their own bucket of faeces and sticks they have to slap together to make it work. And then they have to assemble all these little bricks and pray it won't crash. You may have old hand brace drill or crank drill, it'll do for one hole, but when you have to drill a lot of holes, even in soft material, it may be worth investing in powered tools. Maybe renting them, if your vicinity has such service. or buying something. Problem with gamedev - it's not that easy and fast, and we tend to grip onto known things. Just because we know how they work. I'm all for maintaining and restoring old-timers, some are enjoyable marvels, but... not in coding. This is literally dendro-faecal method of construction that works once. Combining all these, so called "total cost of pwnership", needed to maintain aging technology (it takes men-hours to do so), lots of unknown variables, as content developed in parallel, and internal testing may reject proposed build, feedback from us, found bugs, glitches, and other stuff, physical and emotional exhaustion (few people plan to fail and work badly on purpose, but things frequently don't take off) - all this leads to burning out. Not to mention your usual daily stuff, economy is in recession, costs are growing, salaries are shrinking... You get the point. Yes, I'm a cost estimator, and counting other people money is my job (although strictly speaking, that's accountant/audit job:)). So as as viperous calculating:) customer I have my long list of complains toward current state of the game, and quality (and quantity) of content. I don't think we had enough for our money. Maybe raids were made well, but... how many of us were there? According to Warmind.io, it's about 5% on average. That's about as much as forges and competitive. So not really much. I'm not saying we don't need raids, but if vast majority of people can't see said content, what can we talk about? Many people hate Gambit with passion, so season of the Drifter was a vacuum for them. I was an avid Gambit player, so I was happy when we had season of the Drifter. Colour me idiot, I sincerely enjoyed that thing. Don't get me wrong, I don't enjoy loot drop rate and quality of it in a slightest, it almost made me quit. And even with everything I said earlier, I do not understand, how the hell 700 full-time professional employees couldn't figure out we don't like Prime-Reckoning loop, and it needs modification at least like Ada's bounties EARLIER and why the hell they haven't done that. I mean, it's August. We had problems back in March. Even taking all their work at future content into consideration, if they can't do that, I dread to imagine what kind of bucket of rusty nuts and bolts their engine is, and how many of it is made from duct tape. I understand week delay to implement something - you need to negotiate with platform holders, create an actual workaround or hack or whatever, but several months on trivial issue of at least just upping the percentage significatly? Seriously? I used to like Black armoury as well, I have over 450 runs through forges, I still don't have a single roll I wanted. You can't accuse me in lack of patience. In Gambit I did 9 infamy resets, I still don't have a single gun in a roll I'd consider good (let alone god). I got my first (and only) Spare Rations after almost 250 prime matches, hell if I know how many Reckoning runs, and even collector's triumph. Now I even more viperous and sarcastic, in anticipation of upcoming "buffs" of drop rates. Maybe now I'll get my second roll in 125 matches, eh? So yeah, while I always give anyone benefit of a doubt, but working in different industry that is far, far less tolerant to mistakes and failures (Todd "Games are art" Howard) makes me quite less tolerant to poor excuses of a resemblance to an excuse. So, sorry, but I'll call shit shit. And by my opinion, bungee made a lot of it, so they have to repeat Heracles' labours and clear their Augean stables themselves. Until then I'll stay sarcastic pessimistic self.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I've been that way towards them sometimes, but I have a low tolerance threshold for their sh*t at this point, just wanted to explain myself if it came off that way. Its all good. It's late, I'll read that reply in stages lol.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Nuh, no problems, as you can see I have my long list of complains as well. Because it's just hard to believe a fair play is in place, when you clearly see it doesn't.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • That is absolutely not true and you know it. There was a ton in the annual pass to do. Which....is crazy how much they had to work on.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I never thought of that way, you're right! And Gambit Prime is the best mode ever...

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Exhausted and burnt out because they have been grinding Solstice.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Agreed....

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • but they are updating eververse as well. We all know that's their real priority.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • They didn't even build menagerie, it was vicarious visions, lolol

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I forgot about that lol! That's even worse.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • And gambit season was just 2 gambit maps and a quality of life update, lol. Dig deeper and it's actually embarrassing

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I don't play enough of Gambit to notice but at this point its becoming par for the course with Bungie.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • 👏👏👏👏👏👏

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Exactly what I was thinking mate, well said. I was wondering why they are so burnt out yet have always had the time to make sure the Eververse store is refreshed while planet vendors are still peddling the same gear from launch. Shadowkeep is basically recyceld content with a fresh lick of paint and enemies we have seen before. Its clear now that all the effort goes to Eververse. And there are so many things they could do like matchmaking for Nightfalls, making Guided Games actually work etc etc but instead here we are with yet more excuses. The "standardised" way of making content is going be more of what we have seen before sold back to us with Eververse standing ready to make it all look glittery. If they are trying to attract new players with Gambit going free it has backfired horribly, I had three mates all play a few games and they hated it. The overpowered Invaders and constant invasions the most picked up point although the catch up mechanics, once I explained them, and running over motes while your team mate eight feet away gets credit for picking it up also stood out. As you said they lied before, multiple times, but cry about critical feedback. the Pursuits tab was a complete fiasco, and still is. I'm not sorry though they got ripped on it. They earned that.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I do love how Guided Games is still in "Beta" lol. I was genuinely hopeful for Shadowkeep until I saw a lot of very familiar spaces in it. $35 for an area we've already played in? And a raid I'll never get to play? Eh, I'll wait a bit and see. I have a feeling if Luke Smith were removed from the equation, a lot of long standing issues would disappear over time. They keep doubling down on weird decisions: "Lets make this season all about Gambit!" "...What if you don't like Gambit?" "f*** em', that's what" Whereas they could have have the story content in pve, Gambit weapon/armor quest lines running through Gambit and new loot/maps/modes for pvp. Reckoning should have been a standalone mode with unique loot, tying it to Gambit basically killed it. There's multiple ways to roll out this content and they always find the worse one (probably to boost/force player engagement across the different activities) I've never seen anything yet in Eververse that tickled my nuts. I'd give Bungie $20 for the Solstice armor just to avoid Gambit and PvP. That's how much I hate those modes. But yeah, they do seem to be on the ball with Eververse maintenance and updates lol.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon