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8/13/2019 5:13:11 PM
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Director's Cut: Part 1

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  • More challenging = more pandering to the elitist neckbeards that want Destiny to be Dark Souls, and forgetting to about the vast majority of the player base.

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  • What struck me the most is that Bungie seems to still have a communication problem with itself and it’s past experience. The pursuits tab is an interesting “failure” insomuch that by the end of D1 we had a pursuits section that was well received, fluid, and clean. Instead of taking that UI design we were given a jumble. I understand that working on something and then having it become poorly received must be a kick to the stomach but this is where managers need to step in and say “is this what you want or is this what is best for the game?” Whisper of the Worm. Again this harkens back to D1 when they found the Black Hammer was broken in regards to pve activities. While the state of D2 at the time had less power fantasy abandoning all the previous knowledge was a recipe for failure. Eververse. The idea we want to just buy cosmetics is a company lying to itself to rationalize keeping a pay store. People are upset at the pay store cosmetics because D1 trained is that these items are rewarded in game specifically ghosts, sparrows, ships. When specifically removing these items from activity rewards and putting them up for sale it will always be tainted with “the best stuff is for sale” and the less interesting are placed lightly in the game as influence to shop in the store; the psychology to look unique. The annual pass. We were told the the DLC model wasn’t sustainable so we move to the annual pass but are now hearing that it’s unhealthy of a design model as well. Maybe it’s time to do away with DLC and just release a complete game even if it means being quiet for a few years or just release one DLC a year. The DLC also touches on the internal communication issue. Are teams not communicating about what they want to design and how this functions on what is being or has been built? Is this another management issue that isn’t molding a full game but allowing for Frankenstein’s Monster build that is thrown together and hopes it sticks? I’ll be interested to read what the next parts say, benefit of the doubt, maybe it will all come together in a unifying director’s cut as of right now it’s seems a jumble and meandering thoughts.

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    • Edited by HeartStrong07: 8/14/2019 2:27:30 AM
      So far, I have passed on Shadowkeep. I want to see how Borderlands 3 turns out. What sums up Destiny 2 for me is how fun takes a back seat to challenging. In the Director's Cut Part 1, the word "fun" is used twice, the word "challenge/challenging" is use 16 times. I think Bungie thinks to make a game that is challenging where rewards are scarce is fun. I tend to think a game that balances the awesome feeling of power, provides lots of various rewards and sporadic challenges is fun. It seemed like we had reached this point near the end of Destiny 1. This is what Borderlands 2 provided, I have my hopes up for Borderlands 3. I will wait and see about Shadowkeep. I am a little tired of the casino called Destiny 2.

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      • “Making the game is a grind” [spoiler]yeah .... so is playing it ...[/spoiler]

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        • Haven't posted in the Bnet forums since the Halo days, but I thought this Director's Cut merited a response. It's always refreshing to get a transparent and generally unfiltered perspective of the development team to understand your thought process when planning and implementing content. So thank you for this. I'll try to break it down by section. [quote]WE HAVE A POWERFUL SOURCES PROBLEM[/quote] To this point while I can see that there are many opportunities to raise our power levels, I think the RNG nature of power items already offsets that. I don't have the statistics, but how many players really do every single power item each week? Also, I think the highlight of Destiny 2 is the ability to expand further when you hit the max so you can experiment with all weapon/armor combos in all content. [quote]SEASON OF THE DRIFTER THOUGHTS, PART I[/quote] Started this season late, so I can't say I can comment much on the gear drops. Only comment I would add is that time-gated certain missions (synthesizer) is frustrating. As for the two Gambit modes, I'll echo the other comments. Having both is the best option. They're different game modes with different play styles. Advanced players may prefer Prime but other still love original. Let them choose. [quote]SEASON OF THE DRIFTER THOUGHTS, PART II AKA LET'S TALK ABOUT RECKONING[/quote] I completely understand the desire for a Halo Heroic challenge in Destiny 2, Heroic was the shit. And the sense of accomplishment was great when paired with a challenge that didn't completely drain you. But I think as you said in the post, this may be about "breaking encounter rules". I understand the Whisper nerf, sitting in a well far off does prove a challenge to...well... a challenge. But if you focus on the gear and not the game/encounters, this won't fix much. I've been straight up ganked by encounters even in a well, with lunas, and a rift. TL:DR is to shift focus on the AI/mobs and game mode and not the gear we use. There will always be gear that melts bosses, that's the nature of MMOs. [quote]SEASON OF OPULENCE, PART I: THE PURSUITS TRAY IS A CATERPILLAR IN A COCOON–QUESTLOG IS THE BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLY[/quote] As always good change is better late than never. Not going to waste my time scolding. I think the main issue for harsh feedback is the amount if time it took for this to be a thing. Maybe more player testing will avoid this? [quote]SEASON OF OPULENCE, PART II: THE EVOLVING EVERVERSE[/quote] It's 2019 and it's time we admit that for live service games/MMOs, there's going to be MTXs. I think a balance of MTX cosmetics and rewards based ones is the way to go. However, the best model I've seen is the Warframe model. Individual purchases, no time-gate, and the ability to get many cosmetic for free (albeit you need to work for it). Worst thing to do is lock players out because of money. While I'm fine dropping $10 for a cosmetic, many players wouldn't. Also, if there's a way to utilize the steam store for player made cosmetics (like Warframe) you could lighten the load on the team and give more options for players. (And before anyone starts, this isn't a D2 v Warframe thing at all, play both, love both). [quote]SEASON OF OPULENCE, PART IV: THE CHALICE OF OPULENCE AND SOMEHOW EVEN MORE SEASON OF THE DRIFTER THOUGHTS[/quote] Understandable in terms of content planning a development, but I'll say this, I'd wager most players would appreciate a late great content than rushed content that needs fixing (if it ever gets fixed). Delaying Shadowkeep for development is actually a good sign for many of us.

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        • Thanks for the Director's Cut! These changes mostly sound really great and you've addressed a big concern of mine. Re-tuning gear and the sandbox to create a more balanced, rewarding and challenging end-game is somthing I really look forward to in Shadowkeep!

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        • I don’t think a streamers opinion matters at all most players have families and full time jobs so continue to isolate the people who actually buy your game over their elite opinions I’ve played for 5 years but the isolation we continue to see make us powerful only to cripple us is horrible it’s a game an online game it’s supposed to get better as u progress not infinity harder

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        • You can sum up the eververse potion of this but simply saying "Yes eververse will get another over haul, no we wont be putting new things in the "best of year 1" engrams and oh yea.. full disclosure.. shaders and those finishers we showed off so heavily in the first trailer will only be purchasable in shadowkeep.

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          • Seriously stoked. Since D1 we have asked for more transparency and more information on why, when and what. This gives us that. We don't have to like it or even agree but, its how the game is made, what the goals are and a very good evaluation on what they recognize needs improvement. I WOULD CHALLENGE MOST EVERYONE TO EVALUATE THEIR WORK LIKE THIS AND BE AS HONEST. I like how we understand how enemy movement works and the goals of an encounter. How they recognized failures and what they want to do moving forward. With a few more parts to come i'm very excited that Bungie has a firm grasp on where they came from, how to make the game better, and maybe, and most importantly of all, the potential for more evaluations and discussions like this every 3-6 months.

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          • Its good their communicating more and I'm excited to see what they come up with for Shadowkeep, I see a lot of people saying they don't play their own game, which simply isn't true (He literally says in the post he plays at home). As for the well situation, It needs a big nerf because its so good that nothing else for warlock compares even slightly to it.

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          • Weird that there is so much hate. This place is a toxic breeding ground. They said they are taking opinions from everybody not just streamers, and even talked about looking at reddit. They specifically said how they want you to be able to buy what you want without gambling loot boxes, and If you dont like eververse being in director than goodness just dont look at it. Also people need to stop saying they posted this to complain, or because they were overburdened, etc.. Not one single part if their post was about them complaining. They said it was a grind, that's not complaining. Also they told us how they were trying to make us feel powerful while also making the game a challenge, which has been their biggest struggle in destiny and is probably the best thing they could have talked about to give us some insight. Which would y'all rather want them to avoid the community and continue doing what they want? Or would you like them to make posts like this telling us what's going on? I swear people are just spoiled brats these days. If you are reading this bungo, please dont stop what you are doing. This is truly a special game, and you are doing an inspiringly-great job.

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          • Awesome post. Looking forward to future parts. Thanks for doing this Luke. I like when the leader of a game talks directly to the community. I agree on many points. As for which Gambit, I would have to say Prime. Prime is still gambit but expanded and could be made even better. What I do want is no more time-limited stuff. Please stop adding in items to collect and triumphs to go for and taking them away. I am ok with a very small amount of not very grindy stuff for holiday events.

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          • Well of Radiance Huge Nerf Incoming because of Datto

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            • ok... interesting... so not exactly what I expected. my thoughts (if u care): I've played destiny since the launch of the first game and... 1. Pvp has gotten more diverse and yet less diverse. What I mean is we have bows and trace rifles and more supers then ever before yet all that people use are hand cannons, pulse rifles, shotguns, the insane roaming supers, etc. 2. I'm a fan of gambit, but even I'm burned out. Even though I like gambit I find myself moving away from it. this is largely due to heavy ammo being so easy to get and invasions being a matter of who shoots their truth or 1k voices first, I miss the days when I could invade using a pulse rifle and win if I had enough gun skill. 3.Pve. saw what you will about streamers or datto or whatever, but you can't deny the strength of Well, Warlocks are a must have for ALL endgame pve activities at this point. I don't want Well to be nefed but I think that it should be the only real viable super for warlocks in Pve. Just some of my thoughts, agree or don't just thought I'd share, yours truly, a player since the beginning.

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              • Enjoyed the directors cut .. but please tell me with upcoming significantly increased drop rates for prime and reckoning this will include removing all old gambit gear from the weekly milestone for gambit prime ... this makes absolutely no sense why we play four games of GAMBIT PRIME not gambit but it drops old gambit armor and weapons like parcel of stardust instead of dropping spare rations or last man standing .. The only reason I can see y'all doing this is to inflate play time by not giving us a what should be a guaranteed prime weapon .. this was just a bad game decision to do that you the fanbase .. really hope it's changed when the update comes

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              • Edited by CookieNiki: 8/13/2019 8:01:58 PM
                [quote]The initial set of changes to the Pursuits tray earlier this year did a few things beyond upsetting muscle memory. (...) We wanted to try something different with Pursuits, in the sense that we knew where we wanted this feature to end up, but that we'd take some iterative steps to get there. [b]I think we've got to do a better job ensuring that while we're remodeling your house[/b], the potential of the renovation is clearer either in the game or via some communication here on the site. [/quote] That's a common problem when trying to renovate others house without actually asking the residents what they would like changed... before changing it. And it's also a common attitude from Bungie, the "we-know-better-than-our-players" approach we know so well since 2014. And the worst part of it is that it looks you've learned nothing all these years. [quote]Oh, and this fall, bounties will be separated from quests and PC players can assign a hot key that takes them directly to the Pursuits menu.[/quote] WOW! Amazing feature! Oh wait... we already had that back in D1 and better implemented. Nice try Bungie, nice try, you almost got me there for a moment.

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                • "We give them a bunch of tips like "here's how this works, can you beat it?”" That sounds awesome, maybe you all could be a little better at giving the rest of us tips on things like the throwing orbs back and forth to make them stronger in the corrupted strike/blind well/etc. You don't need to spell everything out and hold our hands but something like that just seems unrealistic for people to just accidentally figure out

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                • Excited for the future of Destiny. We've come a long way from Destiny 2/Year 1.

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                • Edited by Dani3009: 8/13/2019 9:39:49 PM
                  Am I really the only one who enjoyed the Director's Cut and is happily looking forward? Really nobody else? As a veteran player I have nothing to criticize - maybe I disagree with some things but he used arguments and tried to explain it and I respect his different opinion

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                  • It seems like way too much focus on an activity verses actual fun story to play. All these Escalation Protocols or Menagerie, these are just an activity thats the same over and over again, not a story and that's all the annual pass gave us, they need to find a blend of activities (as they do have a place) and actual stories and missions to do. Also someone else said it, where is the fun, I like a challenge but Id rather feel like a space magic god lol, the game has become way too much of a choir. Also Gambit sucks, a lot of people think Gambit sucks and its not really all that much fun, just let it go, put down the Gambit and back away...

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                  • Edited by MadMan_4FuN: 8/13/2019 7:06:41 PM
                    -Luke said he had more fun trying to get the kindled Orchid than he did chasing and getting the G-roll rations from the reck. So he confirmed that reciving multiple semi decent guaranteed rewards until the one he wanted dropped was more fun then getting a great drop from a less rewarding activity. Well of course. That's why strikes feel so empty because we know 90% of the stuff we get will be blue that we're going to dismantle. - Escalation protocol, story missions, and so on. Again make them rewarding and people will do them again. I have no desire for an obsolete piece of gear with no/set perks. "Put a worm on the hook and you will catch fish". -Nobody -As far as the cosmetics go I'm all for badass looking ornaments in the eververse and if I want something cool I have no problem paying. That DOES NOT MEAN make the stock gear look terrible or only put the nice things in eververse for silver. If it's something that will enhance a persons personal experience playing the game it should have a method of acquiring set item through gameplay. Purchase options should be just that an option. -The " HUG" emote is a *perfect* example of earning cosmetics. It's amazing going up to random people I've never met and offering them a hug and watching them respond in a positive manner. That one emote can change the entire atmosphere of the game in a second. I've offered hugs in the middle of Crucible matches had enemies stop dead in their tracks and reciprocate the hug, Give me a courtesy dip dip, then they go off to murder my team. And I'm positive that on more than one occasion some of those random people who I'll never meet again needed that hug Even if it was a digital one. - Gear cosmetics. Why is it that alot of the rank up and blue gear look cleaner ( literally and metaphorically) and stylish than most of the legendary gear? Is it really that hard to design a hunter cloak that isn't ripped up, Or a warlock helmet that's symmetric? ......TITAN SHOULDERS...... that is is all. It would be cool if there was a fan art elect every business quarter (3 months) Dev's could pick thier top 10 gear looks then have the Community vote on their favorite. Be it a weapon skin or a set of (armor pieces) like helmets for the three classes. The winner would be published and the Creator can be presented with a special Emblem to display for their contribution to the destiny universe. Food for thought #feedback #destiny2 #Bungie

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                    • Edited by Mr Mac: 8/13/2019 6:34:34 PM
                      Wow! That was indeed a wall of text. Interesting things I gathered from all of that. 1. He acknowledges OP-ness of Wall of Radiance, yet they punished the Shards of Galanor. I guess, there can only be one OP, and they chose the Warlock! I sense WoR getting nerfed soon. LOL. 2. I'm glad that there is kind of an admission of guilt when it comes to how they weren't able to manage Reckoning better, in terms of the ratio of rewards and player time investment. 3. He kept focusing on making the game challenging and adjusting difficulty. He is forgetting the main ingredient here - the fun factor. If I wanted a totally challenging and difficult game, I'll play something else. People came to play this game because of the fun of Space Magic, not the puzzles or stupid and annoying mechanics. And lastly, I get the sense that Luke Smith really does want to improve the game. But I think he's lost touch with what matters most - the players. Any company can make a challenging/difficult game. But it takes a lot to make one that is fun, challenging, and rewarding. Make us feel like Legend once again, Luke. PS. No more Gambit, please!

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                      • Here's a clue, pal: STOP LISTENING TO STREAMERS. and cut the profanity. if we used that language we'd GTAB.

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                      • Edited by BarretOblivion: 8/13/2019 11:39:09 PM
                        I really wish Luke talked about boss design... because honestly is the one thing Destiny has overall had a problem since D1. Do mechanics like stand on plate or throw balls, etc and then stand in X place and burn 'boss'. I mean is it too much to ask for boss's to do more than just sit there and fire projectile like gun shots at us??? This space fantasy, use the fantasy for F sake and make us interact with the BOSS. Have to boss do different things that we need to react to, build upon what the raid team did with Riven/Insurrection prime and add attacks that we can interupt. More stuff that has to do with us reacting to the BOSS and interesting besides allowing us to face roll a 'chunky' enemy that is just bigger than trash mobs we have been killing for 4 years. I mean for F sake, even Borderlands has better boss's that are action packed than any of Destiny's bosses including raid bosses.

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                        • Hope bungie and luke will do more of these, was a pretty interesting read. Gambit solution can just be a weekly rotation between both modes or have both in 1 playlist and random which you play. Hoping for a buff to the rewards from menagire, I think 3 chests would be a fair compromise, additionally I'd love if we could farm forges by simply doing just the forge, killing enemies with × then getting the seeds then going back to ada 1 first to pick up a new frame and then again back after you finish the seeds ruins a lot of the interest I have to grind it, if i just had to run a forge and get the drop I'd likely do it nonstop till I got the rolls I wanted, same with reckoning gear, wish there was a way to farm specific weapons as I'd love a spare rations with my preferred roll, honestly the amount of rng that goes into if a gun is usable or not should be countered by getting a ton of that gear to drop constantly. Finally I'm sti against the whisper nerf as I feel it easnt used half as much as people seem to think, it was only used for insurrection prime raid wise, 1 encouter means its broken? I would have dropped the ammo reserves to 3 and called it a nerf, it's by far the hardest weapon to use successfully, ask yourself if 3 rapid crits on a high flinch, high recoil exotic heavy sniper makes more sense as a top contender for damage and takes more skill to use then simply bombarding a boss with cluster rockets or spike grenade spam... As for future hinted at nerfs I really hope the titan barricade remains as is, a good nerf to well would be removing its bonus damage then changing middle tree sentinel to allow the titan to slam the shield into the floor allowing him to use weapons normally, combining both supers to gain the advantage well currently does by itself will lead to an increased titan usage and making players character choices more diverse

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                        • Edited by Midnight: 8/14/2019 3:40:13 AM
                          Thanks for being open but seriously, [b]do not nerf supers into the ground.[/b] They are called supers, not kindas (kinda works but not really). Stomp mechanics annoy most players if not all. Give all future bosses actual mobility and interesting mechanics without immune phases. [b]Regular Standard Gambit is the best Gambit. Make the Gambit Armor relevant to regular Gambit.[/b] Remove Well of Radiance and give Warlocks a completely different subclass. PvP has WAY TOO MUCH control. Heavy ammo should not spawn until half way through a match. Nerf eververse. All planets are underused. All you can do there is patrols, lost sectors, or public events... That's it and it's a shame because the planets are gorgeous. Update planet vendors and include weapons with random rolls for each of them

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