I mean, I never said I have issues with Ace. I use it with Translation Theory, Mindbender's Ambition, Gunnora's Axe, maybe a sniper. Or I run Chaperone with a sniper. I'm trying to get an SMG to run with a sniper, but Banshee is stingy with his Antiopes. My post was more for the majority of the community. Yeah, those guns like Ace work. But in a world of high console recoil, flinch, and bloom, it is very hard, if not impossible, to call the consistent when comparing them to 180s. 180s pretty much suffer from none of those problems due to the precision frame and they can potentially kill faster. In fact, if bloom, flinch, or the recoil makes a user miss a crit with a 140 or 150, their TTK at that point becomes slower than a 180 without any perks active. I really just want a sandbox update to address those issues, and the best solution in my opinion is to make 140s kill in 2 crit 1 body and help out some scouts and autos. I don't see bloom, flinch, or console recoil being addressed any time soon unfortunately.

I understand and can respect that... I do not see a lot of scenarios where the bloom really ruins my opportunities. Flinch is flinch. That is the purpose of it. Why should I win the fight if your shots are better and more precise? And, you can even combat the flinch if you know what you are doing and this rewards skill. With the mixture of the sniper quest and iron banner... I think people are getting the opportunity to see for themselves that the meta is not as narrow as we think. I’m with ya that a constant team supporting pvp would be nice... but the developers do have the numbers... as in they see things we do not. For me, if I am using a 180.. I am doing so for its close quarters possibilities more than anything. I can combat recoil with rolls on any other hand cannon, but if 180s were not there.. then it would be side arms and/or shotguns ruling the area uncontested. 140/150s are horrible for close quarters. Yes, a skilled player can do work.. but it is a sweaty situation in this pvp. ^ my point is, I see players running 140/150s with a sniper or pulse... and that is a limited fight and a player with a little bit of knowledge knows that they can put this type of player on their heals and win the fight by pushing them. Be it with a 180, shotgun, smg, fusion, etc. My fix to your issue, and I think we all can agree, are the maps. They are repetitive in design for the most part and most fights are in the 20/25 meter range. Any map that breaks that norm currently are immediate sniper distances. But I’m a different kind of player. I am not a sherpa or owning lobbies.. I do not play metas outside of a 180 hand cannon, but I go for consistent rolls over kill clip, rampage, and outlaw. This week, season, has felt more like d1 more than ever. Yes, we could use some more balancing and quality of life fixes.. but if you really think about it.. taking something like your complaint on the 180s.. only opens up a bigger issue on these maps we currently have. No?