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6/15/2019 6:36:14 AM
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Ive got two problems with d2 raids: 1) Every raid is far too complicated. If everyone on the team needs to be absolutely perfect, yes thats a challenge, but it isnt fun. Raids should be hard, but doable. Its already difficult finding a team thats okay with mistakes, but mixing that with raids where one tiny mistake from one dude makes you wipe is one biiiiig oof. 2) If i need a phone or computer or something other than the game to tell me what symbols are what, where the symbols go, or whatever charts are needed for certain encounters, i guarantee i will not like that encounter in the slightest. Theres a reason literally everyone wants to cheese Riven. (Its because its waaaaaaay too complicated for normal human beings) I get Bungie wants to challenge the streamers with their little race garbage, but i feel like they should focus more on making the raids really enjoyable and unique with cool environments and encounters instead of really complicated, mind boggling, boring garbage that just makes you wipe over and over and over again until you finally finish an encounter and you just feel happy its over. Maybe its just me though, idk.
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  • [quote]Ive got two problems with d2 raids: 1) Every raid is far too complicated. If everyone on the team needs to be absolutely perfect, yes thats a challenge, but it isnt fun. Raids should be hard, but doable. Its already difficult finding a team thats okay with mistakes, but mixing that with raids where one tiny mistake from one dude makes you wipe is one biiiiig oof. 2) If i need a phone or computer or something other than the game to tell me what symbols are what, where the symbols go, or whatever charts are needed for certain encounters, i guarantee i will not like that encounter in the slightest. Theres a reason literally everyone wants to cheese Riven. (Its because its waaaaaaay too complicated for normal human beings) I get Bungie wants to challenge the streamers with their little race garbage, but i feel like they should focus more on making the raids really enjoyable and unique with cool environments and encounters instead of really complicated, mind boggling, boring garbage that just makes you wipe over and over and over again until you finally finish an encounter and you just feel happy its over. Maybe its just me though, idk.[/quote] 1) I think Bungo made the raids "challenging and overcomplicated" stand for "normal" difficulty and "Heroic" now stands for "Sweaty YouTube clips for views and twitch streams so said youtubers and streamers can put food on the table. Royal baths, gauntlet, Calus boss fight, all those require people to multitask during the same individual encounter for "normal" difficulty 😑 As you said somebody learning the raid makes a mistake the whole team is punished wich leads to harsh attitudes, frustration and ultimately rage quit and the people learning the raid are now exactly where they started but alone... 2) i consider myself a normal human being and compare to the teams i got to attempt a raid im not (honestly) as bad as some people, but yes is not their fault if they lack the concentration or the skill to play along everyone else benchmark, cause we all are individuals not a collective mind like the vex. (3) -blam!- the[i]World's first[/i] garbage, is nothing but a stupid competition for a title only known among the Destiny community, they won't put that on their curriculum when looking for a job, is not a life achievement goal, Destiny is a videogame, enough with your idiotic 20+hrs streams that -blam!-ing unhealthy.

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  • Edited by Keadreos: 6/16/2019 11:53:59 PM
    highest raid count is last wish and it's at 10 lmao. Just because you're ignorant and don't want to learn new things doesn't mean the new raids are "far too complicated." P.S. Riven cheese still exists because the raid already takes long enough and it's an mmo, meaning that people will do anything to get loot faster. It's not because the encounter is overtly hard.

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  • The riven encounter is way to complicated i do not know anybody who does that encounter the right way unless your a streamer its ridiculous and not fun maybe you was born with the last name einstein

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  • The reason why it seems that way is because you already have to do a lot in the previous parts of the raid. If you started actually doing it with a competent team, it's not overtly complicated and can be treated as phase 2 Crown of Sorrow: really complicated at first but shortly becomes routine. Again, people don't cheese Riven necessarily because the normal way is hard, it's because the raid already has numerous mechanics and takes long enough as is.

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  • Hey genious, have you ever thought about the fact that i dont have many raid clears because i didnt enjoy the D2 raids? Just ponder that for a sec, get back to me babycakes.

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  • Edited by Keadreos: 6/17/2019 4:41:27 AM
    I was saying your opinion is invalid because you don't have a lot of experience within raids. And that's true. If someone started complaining about something like crucible, would you rather listen to someone that has a 2.0+ KD/KDA and multiple pinnacle weapons or someone that has a lower ratio and has barely played comp? Obviously the higher skilled player because they play the game the most and have higher experience. Still don't understand? Take a look at hero shooters, specifically Overwatch. When it comes to updating the game, Blizzard is going to prioritize their esports pros over the casuals (mainly because they make them the most money lol). It's as simple as that.

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  • The only difference between “pro” and casual is that pro have time and desire to play more while casual is not. For one “pro” there are 10 casuals. Casuals and “pros” ready to pay money. So, genius, which kind of players will you listen to? Also while casuals are normal people with social live “pros” as usual are guys without live or streamers. Me and my friends don’t play Overwatch any more at all. Overwatch is not fun now. They chasing esports with this stupid goats thing now lol.

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  • You just proved my point. "pro have time and desire to play more" so yes, YOU WOULD PRIORITIZE THEIR OPINIONS OVER CASUALS BECAUSE THEY PLAY THE GAME MORE. How is that so hard to understand? Also, just because there are more casuals doesnt mean they should be listened to. There's literally a running joke with casuals not doing simple things like heroic public events. Finally, most streamers I watch have a better social life than most people that I talk to. They go to events constantly, collab with other creators, and in general talk to a wide range of people. Hell, Datto even invited friends over to play board games last year. Next time you reply, make sure it makes sense, please.

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  • Pros who play more don’t give more money than casuals. Streamers and casuals both pay for the same dlc and annual pass. Pros even have more bright dust. Streamers are nothing without game. This game is their work. WORK. Should we all become streamers? Then who will watch if we all will be streamers? I believe that more than 90% of player base are casuals and casuals make must money for Bungie. Streamers needed for popularization. Anyone who thinks that streamers and pros know better is complete moron. This is the fact.

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  • Edited by Keadreos: 6/18/2019 12:22:16 AM
    Pros are more likely to buy things like silver because they have much more money and will be more inclined to support the game. They also boost the game in general just by streaming it. You are right about games needing streamers, specifically esports reliant games like Overwatch, LoL, etc. Streamers are one of the main advertisement tools. Of course a large portion of the playerbase are casual. In fact, they make up the majority of any game, HOWEVER, that does not mean that they matter more than pros in terms of changing the game. Pros play the game more, have more knowledge about the game, and most importantly generate the business money through free advertisement from their streaming. Granted, casuals are the games best way of getting sales, but, who makes them want to buy the game? Pros/creators/streamers! If there's ANYONE who a company should listen to on how to control their game, it's the top players of the game. They know what they're doing and they're going to be the people that end up sticking around and promoting the game. It's not hard to understand. Want an example? Take military ranks in the U.S. A private, in terms of the team, is just as important as something like a Major. However, because the Major has much more experience and knowledge, his opinions/orders matter more.

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  • I played D1 raids all the time because they were more enjoyable to me. It only takes one run through a raid for me to know that i dont like it. Enjoyment is subjective to each person, if you want to tell me my opinion is invalid, youre very ignorant. An opinion is just that, someones opinion. If you like d2 raids, more power to you, i dont. Anything else, or are you done?

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  • Youre psn, :/

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  • Didn't even reply to my point but whatever. I'm going to explain it one more time: you don't have a lot of experience, therefore, your opinion is less valid than a more experienced ones' opinion. That doesn't mean your opinion is wrong, it means that it's going to be taken less seriously. I don't know what's hard about that. Think about it like this: why does Bungie invite creators to their summit events instead of random players? The obvious answer is that getting randoms would be way harder and creators are well known but the other answer is that they have been exposed to the game the most and are in the at least top 10% of players. What I'm trying to say is that I respect your opinion but it's extremely flawed and incoherent. Is that enough for you to understand.

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  • [quote]1) Every raid is far too complicated. If everyone on the team needs to be absolutely perfect, yes thats a challenge, but it isnt fun. Raids should be hard, but doable. Its already difficult finding a team thats okay with mistakes, but mixing that with raids where one tiny mistake from one dude makes you wipe is one biiiiig oof.[/quote] Totally disagree. Most raids only need you to keep a grip of a few mechanics at a time. If that's too hard then maybe raiding isn't your thing, which is fine. It's not for everyone, however they are certainly not too hard as they are. I'ce sherpa'd loads of newbies through the D2 raids and never yet had a time when we couldn't get though it. [quote]2) If i need a phone or computer or something other than the game to tell me what symbols are what, where the symbols go, or whatever charts are needed for certain encounters, i guarantee i will not like that encounter in the slightest. Theres a reason literally everyone wants to cheese Riven. (Its because its waaaaaaay too complicated for normal human beings)[/quote] There's only really one raid where this is an issue and even then, it's only until you get familiar with the symbols. I think if you're automatically disregarding this type of content you're doing yourself out of some great fun.

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  • Agree 100%

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  • You would've hated WoW raids

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  • Why would he hate WoW raids ? They were teird from Easy to Mythical with LFG. Nothing was overly complicated other than not standing in things in LFG mode. This idea has been brought up to Bungie for years....yet we were still here.

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  • Back in the early days it would take groups days sometimes to finish a raid. Then they dumbed them down

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  • Git good

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  • what about raid lairs theyre pretty simple but still fun i low eater of worlds because its just parkour and then colour matching

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  • This is an opinion of people who clearly don’t raid. Nothing is overly complicated or requires a computer. Raids in D2 are pretty dumbed down and stupid easy once you reach the proper light level. Can you talk to your teammates or move clockwise? Riven isn’t very complicated either it literally is just remembering one eye to shoot and learning where the symbols spawn. The only things that need a computer are that zero hour catalyst and Niobe labs

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  • 1 clan of people went to play 2 different raids, they all have mics and do speak the same language, light level didn't matter cause everyone is above 700 and the raids choosen were and went like this: 1.- Spire of stars - didnt even completed the 1st encounter. 2. Eater of worlds - we finished it. I know, "overcomplicated mechanics" there is no such thing.

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  • You need to get out of your head man. The D2 raids are easy and relatively simple- they can seem overwhelming when you don’t know what to do but none are significantly harder than eater of worlds. Spires first encounter is incredibly simple and straightforward.

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  • 🤔 except that the same fireteam went to play D1(everyone said they never completed D1 raids cause either they got the game during rise of iron or ultimately try it but didn't finished it) it all gone like this: - VoG (we only struggled during atheon) we complete it. - Crota (at the bridge we had some wipes because they unintentionally step on the plate while nobody was on their side over the totems, well they never done it before so is understandable they didn't knew about that) completed. - Kings fall (the wall of shame aka the dildo bumpers and the sisters took some attempts) we finished it with 5 cause its been 3 raids in a row and is late for some of us. - Worst D1 raid aka Wrath of the shit, personally i think is where all this bullshit mechanics for raids started bungo choose "challenging" over fun and we stop at vosik (koviks? Don't recall that stupid captain's name) not because of the monitors but the panic room mechanics. But is all in my head huh? You probably think i don't know that as you complete a raid it becomes easier because you learn it and overall feels not so difficult right? Not even 50 something completions change my mind that oryx was the most complicated among VoG and Crota, well thx for your input.

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  • riven is prety sstupid tho because you need to be EXACT and one mistake means failure the vault is easier but still confusing

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