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Edited by sqeazy: 3/15/2019 9:26:13 PM
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sqeazy

Can we make scout rifles relevant?

I can't help but feel that scout rifles are the poor man's hand cannon. Hand cannons out perform hand cannons in almost any situation that's not long range. I'd like to see the damage raised so that a 180 hand cannon and a 180 scout rifle would be more equal at mid range, hand cannon better at short, and scout better at long.
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  • What if scouts had inverse damage falloff. So they do more damage the farther away you are, and less up close? Ideally they could do less damage than handcannons in HC range, but more damage when they are outside of pulse rifle range. Just spitballing ways they could differentiate them.

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    • 36
      This is good feedback. I'll let the team know you would like see Scouts play a more relevant role in the arsenal. It is an interesting balance having Scouts and Hand Cannons both exist occupy a similar combat need.

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      • I think that after the recent scout rifle buff, there relevant now

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      • I have a Distant with full auto an explosive rnds, it's my new VoC.

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      • I really liked where they were in year 1. Nameless Midnight and Manaman were decent weapons. I think they took a hit cos they wanted bows to be used at similar range, but with the draw time they wouldn't be viable. Cant think the last time i used a scout rifle.

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      • Thanks for feedback we will run it by dildo and gladd

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      • Loved my first legandary D1 scout. It was Badger ccl and it got me through crota's end.

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      • I wish 180 RPM handcannons never existed.

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        • They kill in the correct number of headshots per archetype so what are you proposing? Just like with handcannons they are precision weapons and punish you harshly for not chaining headshots. I think your actually frustrated about map design instead. They could tinker with the rpm for scouts but damage wise and #of headshots for a kill theyre perfect.

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        • Scouts are fine. Its this little thing called balancing pros and cons. If scouts had hand cannon damage, why would you use anything else? Like at all? You wouldn't, there would be no reason to. Pros: - literally everything (range, stability, mag size, handling..etc) Cons: Slightly lower dps than other archetypes

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          • I had a Scout in D1 that I loved, I think it's name was Treads Upon Stars.

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            • Jade Rabbit and Polaris Lance are both pretty solid. Especially on that one dreaming city crucible map, just hang around outside and rake the kills in.

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            • Agreed but bugle are in a tailspin so handcannons are the thing and fcuk everything else, bakebeans for breakfast yee haw bitches

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            • Can we make Bungie relevant

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            • [quote]I can't help but feel that scout rifles are the poor man's hand cannon. Hand cannons out perform hand cannons in almost any situation that's not long range. I'd like to see the damage raised so that a 180 hand cannon and a 180 scout rifle would be more equal at mid range, hand cannon better at short, and scout better at long.[/quote] Careful man, bungie's idea of a scout rifle buff will be to nerf pulse rifles !

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              • On some maps, 150s are great, but the other archetypes could use a little love I think.

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              • [quote]I can't help but feel that scout rifles are the poor man's hand cannon. Hand cannons out perform hand cannons in almost any situation that's not long range. I'd like to see the damage raised so that a 180 hand cannon and a 180 scout rifle would be more equal at mid range, hand cannon better at short, and scout better at long.[/quote] Hand cannons outperform hand cannons?

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              • I personally think that employment of these two polar weapons is greatly affected by the map types. I feel we currently have more maps that create bottlenecks where most of the conflict is centered, thus more players relying on hand cannons, SMGs, etc. Conversely, if there are larger maps, there's less places of bottleneck where players often rely on longer range weapons. I'd like to see more maps that allow players to use both long range and short range weapon types. I can't say I would be able to design one, but I'm sure it is possible. I kind of like Distant Shore for a bit of balance. Yes there is the bottleneck in the Shrine, B plateau and the dark tunnel but B, C, the two spawns, and river areas allow players to play a much longer range game if they so choose.

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              • 5
                Hand Cannons aren't a Scout's main competition, Pulse Rifles are (or more specifically, Blast Furnace.) The only Scouts that outrange Blast Furnace while still having a viable TTK are the 150 RPM ones, and the only map in the game where you can have gunfights at those ranges is Equinox. High Impact Pulses need to have their range or stability toned down to give Scout Rifles more breathing room.

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                • Scouts are suffering because of pulse rifle range and accuracy not hand cannons.

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                  • Jade rabbit is a 3 tap in crucible. With the catalyst, it's a monster that nobody is expecting. Pair with a handcannon for when people close the gap.

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                    • I’ve been messing with jade rabbit lately, but it would be nice to see some of the other scouts more consistent in combat.

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                    • The pure problem with the scout is the existence of pulse rifles because pulse rifles serve the purpose of the range that scouts are supposed to be used at. That said, I don't think hand cannons are what they look like. My suspicion, in canon anyway, is that the first hand cannon was carried by a hunter. Finding that he or she needed the stopping power of a scout rifle but the handling and maneuverability of a hand gun for when things got close quarters. The first thing this unknown hunter did was remove the stock and replace it with a pistol grip, then they sawed off the barrel. After practicing with the weapon some they found that ejecting the battery magazine from the bottom of the cut down rifle was both unwieldy and awkward, it was also wasteful as far as space goes. After considering this the hunter decided to replace the capacitor and beam energy projection diode array with a smaller but overloaded array system and instead of ejecting the battery magazine from the bottom of the weapon, they custom designed a cylindrical shaped battery pack which would be held in above the grip of the weapon like an old world revolver, allowing them to quickly flick it open, drop the old pack, and shove in a new one. All things considered I think that in this universe the hand cannon evolved from the rifle rather than the other way around. This does mirror real world development of firearms as the earliest firearms were most likely unrifled cannons meant to fire balls of various sizes, as metal casting technology improved they were able to make these cannons smaller and more narrow, if you look at historical firearms the earliest proto-rifles were esentailly portable cannons. Then the advent of the musket rifle came about, then pistols when people realized that the rifle could essentially be cut off and fired from the hand. Of course these early pistols were so inaccurate they were only useful when fired into a crowd... The early days of dueling it was not unheard of for the two duelists to have the adversary dead in each other's sights and miss each other entirely, which is a large part of why the practice was banned in a time before modern law and order when idiots were usually welcome to get them selves killed. Because they'd usually miss and kill someone else. Anyway, long story short, when the question is which came first, the chicken or the egg, the answer is the egg. The rifle came before the pistol, so the scout rifle came before the hand cannon... I feel like if they remove the flinch physic from scout rifles entirely, and make hcr an intrinsic perk of scout rifles, which is they stagger the enemy badly, they should work... Also I feel like stagger rounds which usually knock the enemy for a loop, making them stumble for a moment, should be applied to crucible in that being hit by these rounds should cancel sprint, making you have to start your self sprinting again, this will widen the window of time people are darting through an open area where normally the scout time to kill isn't fast enough... Which will force people to either actively avoid long fire lanes or take a risk someone is camping them, titans might be able to put up a barricade to provide cover for their team, a hunter might be able to slide and roll dodge across. But if you get caught in the middle of a fire lane that someone is camping with a scout rifle, you absolutely pay consequences for that choice, especially with the fact that destiny's team shot meta means every engagement for a camper is going to be one on two.

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                      • Idk i just got the new gambit scout with rapid hit, explosive payload and a range masterwork... It does good work

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                      • MSRA oh wait....

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                      • All I know is I’m sick of the Hand Cannon / Shotgun meta.

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