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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by Redbone: 3/15/2019 3:53:27 PM
123

Thorn is Disappointingly Average

Wow theres a lot to go over. First, dissuade any expectations of "bRiNg bAcK D1 ThOrN!" Second, [b]It is important to note my Ending Arguments are my main gripe with the weapon.[/b] The DoT gameplay changes are welcomed and were expected. I'll start with the good and move to the bad. First, the quest. Its pretty good. Lots of avenues to progress, and although the Void HC kills grind is difficult, it is also manageable (Especially with weapons like the Ikelos HC) I was disappointed by the Final Strike, however. I was expecting something along the lines of TLW, or maybe Malfeasence. Instead we got the same exact strike, just with the dialogue ripped out, and 2 extra Knights. Oh and everything 1-shots you. So if you asked "Would you get Thorn on a 2nd character" my answer would be "I would immediately shard the quest, only because of the Final Strike" Second, the Weapon Itself. In PVE it is great. Near unlimited Ammo, decent damage, plus its fun to use. Not my first choice, simply because of the Exotic Slot, but its alright. In PVP, which lets not lie to ourselves, is where the gun SHOULD shine, Its just... meh. The stats are alright, and the recoil feels nice. My issues lie with the DoT mechanics, however... they just are [b]not the same.[/b] I don't mean the Damage the DoT itself does, I mean the way the DoT effects gameplay. In D2, compaired to D1, there are simply too MANY ways to counter the DoT Mechanic. There are too many ways to initiate Health Regen, and because of that, the DoT mechanic itself falls to the wayside 80% of the time [b]except with Soul Devourer.[/b] The [b][u]Utility[/u][/b] of the DoT has changed from D1 to D2, [b]radically[/b]. Whereas in D1, the DoT could force players out of engagements, in D2, relying on the DoT to push players back will almost certainly get you killed. Whereas in D1, the DoT allowed you to quickly peak, shoot, hide while the enemy wasted away Pre-Firing, then take another Shot, in D2, attempting to Peak a 2nd Shot will almost certainly get you killed against average players Whereas in D1, the DoT allowed you to hit and kill players who are already Low HP, in D2, chances are they are just going to pop a Healing Rift, or a Hunter-Dodge, or a Barricade to initiate health regen. Finally, I want to talk about the weapons [b][u]Bloom[/u][/b]. Now the actual ADS is clean and crisp, and the Sights are pretty good and open. It leaves a lot of room for you to see sneaky shotgun or TLW rushers. However, put [b][u]Simply, this weapon suffers from the same fate as all Hand Cannons in D2.[/u][/b] But MORE than that, it SPECIFICALLY suffers from the same problem as Sunshot, and that is the Bloom [b][i]combined[/i][/b] with the Recoil Animation. Its borderline Unmanageable, [b]and this is coming from a PC Player[/b]. You shoot. Does you weapon go up and to the left? Up and to the Right? Up and Center? Who knows? All I know is that I can't see a god damn thing in front of me for a solid .25 seconds after I shoot, and while thats not a big issue in PvE... in PvP, it turns this weapon from a Top Tier into an Average Weapon. [b][u]Practically, the weapon can only be Accurately used as a 110 RPM because of the Animation, while maintaining 150RPM damage numbers and a low Mag. This is detrimental to the effectiveness of the weapon.[/u][/b] [b]I guess what I'm trying to say is... If you don't have any Nostalgia about Thorn. If you're solely looking for your Best option in PvP, not only is Thorn NOT that weapon... its not even close. And thats a big problem considering that it is the main thing keeping PvP players around for the next 3 months.[/b]

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  • cant relate, I love it for PvE and PvP, thorn + sniper or shotgun is really solid, use the poison to stop regen, and track, been averaging 30 kills a game in quickplay, 15-20 in comp with it.

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  • 53
    Appreciate the feedback. So you would like the recoil and bloom to be reduced correct? You also pointed out why the DOT is not as affected as it was in its hayday back in D1. Is there something you would like changed about the DOT? We will continue to monitor all of the feedback on Thorn and keep an eye on the player data coming in as more players receive the weapon. We'll let you know if we decide to make any changes to the weapon in a future update.

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    • I hear you on the bloom but the gun is powerful just takes some getting used to. Thorn is my favorite gun on the whole series so it doesn't matter how they make the gun its going to be a beast so longs it has dot dmg. If they buff it its going to be a monster worst than luna.

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      • Edited by W33DEDPLAGUE: 3/15/2019 11:31:54 PM
        Honestly, I don't think DOT should ever function as it did in D1. There is a reason we had a time where it was ONLY Thorn running around and that's because the DOT mechanic was a HUGE advantage over everything else. There was no way to counter the inevitable 3 second countdown to death, even by taking cover. I believe the weapon has been made into a still effective but also fair addition to the sandbox without outclassing everything else. Being able to burn someone to death by shooting and crouching into cover while you waited for them to die was too much. With the new perk, Thorn becomes a viable weapon in ALL aspects of the game and with the additions other items in D2, players can counter it when it was really impossible to survive in the first game. Maybe it can be tweaked still but it seems like a more balanced yet more effective option than before. The other stuff sounds like things that can be fixed: recoil, bloom, etc. but they have to be careful with the DOT so it doesn't make the gun the ONLY option. I want to say thank you guardian, for not only having civil feedback, but also listing the reasons why and possible suggestions. That's rare around these parts, salute.

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        • & any exotic that's above average gets complained about until it's nerfed.

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          • I feel sorry for any one who thought this weapon was going to be good (like in d1 days )

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          • Edited by LiftAnEye: 3/15/2019 3:41:14 PM
            It's as I expected, it is just a reward/trophy for doing another quest line that has you do the same shit and a painful slog through crucible. Expecting anything different at this point is just silly. 1. Do quest, get gun. 2. Try it on ads in patrol, possibly crucible. Neat. 3. Put it in vault.

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          • It’s average, I was so excited to get it and use it in PvP, next game I switched to the last word again Even on pc the “recoil” is wonky, even if there’s no recoil, the gun covers up the whole screen while shooting. The smallest flinch just makes the whole screen situation worse. The burn tic rate is mediocre. I do love the idea of the devourer though. If it’s meh on Pc, I can’t imagine how it’s on console

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          • -improve bloom -make soul devourer a bullet buff, you get three rounds that’ll give you the two tap affect on guardians below 5 resilience. Three is fair, if you’re pacing your shots, you’ll always have three rounds buffed. But have enemies of the darkness drop the orb still in pve if that’s possible. -keep the recoil -buff the base tick to 3, buff the devourer tick to 8 -slight range buff, not too crazy, we don’t need it to be worse than not forgotten The argument with ace of spades, it’s going to need a third round always, thorn will just need two and walk away. I want the gun to do slightly better to compete with the pinnacle weapons. But we don’t want it to be an easy access weapon, leave a skill gap. Not everyone uses last word even though it’s still nasty on console, but everyone uses pinnacle weapons, thorn being a viable option would be great, a slight range buff.

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            • I agree wholeheartedly!!! Thorn should always be a 3 tap ( 2 crits and 1 body ) to die with dot. That’s against 10 resilience as well. It’s an exotic and should feel as such. I will NOT replace my NF with a gun that cannot 3 tap plain and simple.

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              • Below average...

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              • I'm down with some bloom reduction, but otherwise it's fine. 180 cannons should be reclassified as 150s, but that's another conversation.

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              • Lol no. Thorn is really good, But just like ace you need to flick shoot and peek shoot to make it worthwhile

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              • Notice how like 98% of comments are about how it performs in crucible? I don't have the gun but I'm curious how it handles in pve. How does it do in night falls and raids or just mid game strikes and forges etc. I bet is that stuff it works fine. How come every time any gun comes out all any one ever cares about is how it performs in pvp. F**K PVP!

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              • To say the least, handcannons in this game have quite forgiving bullet magnetism in their ideal range. Thorn is quite fine if you ask me. And bullet magnetism is on both PC and console in equal amounts. It's recoil does not affect where the reticle is truly at, it's purely visual. It can 2 tap. It still works wonders. And it turns spectral blades green. That's all I need out of it.

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              • Even with all the problems it has I still like using it. Granted it DESPERATELY needs fixing but there's something about it that makes it fun to use.

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              • I 100% agree with everything you said. Straight facts.

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              • Working as intended

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              • U just have to get used to it like last word... love this new perk

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              • I feel the recoil animation is to intrusive. For me I don’t have a clear idea of what the weapon is capable of because I’m to distracted by the visuals.

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              • I feel "bloom" or Bungie targeting was made by Bungie? Being a long time pc gamer I can't say I've ever seen this outside of consoles in the last 15 years. It's a shit mechanic that has no place in games,andcwhen you search the topic all roads lead to Bungles.

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                • Yeah thorns pretty meh. I can't hit the broadside of a barn with it unless I shoot it like a 110 but if you do that you just get sauced by any 180 (trust for example). So no real reason to use it.

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                • It’s very good on pc...but hey i’m a minority.

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                  • 5 years later, still expects bungie to actually deliver quality content..l

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                    • I made it a point today in strikes to outdo every thorn insane with a mk 44 I was superior due to shooting faster and ohking where the thorn needed the DOT I would constantly be stealing kills. I know I'm bad. But the thorn is worse

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                    • This whole games disappointingly average

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