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Edited by Haunter: 3/7/2019 4:49:51 PM
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[quote]Destiny 2 has a matchmaking problem.[/quote]Not at all [quote]I've already written thousands of words on this so I'm not going to rehash it here[/quote]Yes and you've also been set straight thousands of times, non-competitive gamemodes never have and never should have any form whatsoever of sbmm. [quote]but I will say it's extremely disappointing that there not only were no adjustments this season, but that it hasn't ever even really been addressed or discussed.[/quote]Of course it hasnt, theres absolutely nothing to be discussed. Bottom tier players want every single playlist to cater to them and are only getting 80% and are mad it's not happening. That's the end of it, you're not forcing the entire playerbase to play with sbmm, you've got your options for it, you wont be taking ours. [quote]I also think it clearly shows that listening to the top 10% on how to save the game and particularly Crucible has not panned out. 90% of the population have walked away and washed their hands of PvP.[/quote] Enough with the misinformation, you also wrote in this very thread about how pvp numbers were higher then pve ones: 90% of the population have walked away from [u]destiny 2[/u] not for pvp reasons but because theres practically nothing new and the content is stale with nothing on the horizon either. Not because some streamers matched them in pvp and they're upset about that, you attempting to push your narrative with false conclusions to problems that are due to something else is one of the biggest reasons you get criticized here. [quote]It's great Truevanguard and Gigz can put up all their highlight videos to get retweeted or put in #motw, but the players getting farmed are over it.[/quote]Yes because them playing all other players is totally unfair. I've never seen a fortnite post complaining about matching streamers, it's almost as if even the kids know in non-competitive gametypes you'll play vs everyone. [quote]D2 Y1 had plenty of flaws, but it was a cohesive unified vision and all the parts for together. Year 2 is a bunch of square pegs in round holes.[/quote]D2 Y1 was far worse then any point of the series, it is the main reason our population tanked (and Y1 had forced sbmm throughout vanilla and coo I might add) and while it has recovered much the lack of new things to run and long, boring waits for updates have dried the game out again. The annual pass has quality issues to be sure, no new strikes, vendor resets, endgame, etc. Tiny pieces of content that will get boring fast and updates and changes that take so long it's not even worth it, however theres nothing wrong or broken about quickplay - every player being rng matched up with any other player is completely fine. Especially seeing as that occurs in [b][u]1/5[/u][/b] playlists with full sbmm matchmaking in all others "BuT bEtTeR pLaYeRs WiLl WiN mOrE" Yeah, and? It's almost as if becoming a better player were incentivized.... Until you realize that non-competitive playlists and sbmm are opposites and dont work or that the bottom 50% of the base having all of pvp cater to them isn't healthy you will forever be mad at something that's the standard.
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  • I just said something very similar in response to someone on here but it’s nice to see someone else talking sense.

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  • [quote]but I will say it's extremely disappointing that there not only were no adjustments this season, but that it hasn't ever even really been addressed or discussed. Of course it hasnt, theres absolutely nothing to be discussed.[/quote] Gonna have to check you there bud, Cozmo did acknowledge it. Basically, they know the forum goes nuts about getting rid of SBMM whenever it's around, so while they fixed the bug that got us here, they left SB out. :)

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  • You replied to me not sols lol

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  • Edited by TJM99: 3/7/2019 11:15:18 PM
    But you said the last line The quote didn't do what I thought lol

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  • Do you do Luna’s and not forgotten paid recovs? If yes you can shut your mouth because you are part of the reason this game is very close to becoming dead

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  • That’s asinine on many different levels.

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  • I do not however I remember trials carries in D1 and those didnt kill the game Games dying from lack of new content and boring repetition of old stuff to pointlessly level up with no new gear to speak of.

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  • Thank you for always replying to this self serving bullshit. I used to but I no longer have the nerve to. Usually they propogate SBMM as being fair. Who is it fair for though? It is certainly not fair to punish higher skilled players with lag and longer waiting times. One comparison that is usually made by SBMM proponents is that to professional sports, NBA for instance. Sure, recreational basketball teams don't face NBA teams but they don't get rewarded the same as NBA teams as well. There is a performance/reward relationship in place.

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  • The low player population serves up plenty of lag and long matchmaking waits.

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  • Not really. It's much better than what it used to be when SBMM was in QP.

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  • We're also fighting to the death in an arena, not shooting hoops in one room.

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  • Haha yea

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  • [quote]D2 Y1 was far worse then any point of the series, it is the main reason our population tanked ([b]and Y1 had forced sbmm throughout vanilla and coo I might add[/b]) and while it has recovered much the lack of new things to run and long, boring waits for updates have dried the game out again.[/quote] You knowingly target SBMM as the reason for D2Y1’s Failure despite [u]knowing[/u] that it failed due to Lack of fun and Accessible End-Game Content. [quote]”BuT bEtTeR pLaYeRs WiLl WiN mOrE" Yeah, and? It's almost as if becoming a better player were incentivized.... ...[b]50% of the base having all of pvp cater to them isn't healthy[/b] you will forever be mad at something that's the standard.[/quote] You [b]again[/b] target SBMM when the reality is that [b]the problem is Bungie catering to PvP in general[/b]. When PvE-Main players get bored of PvE, they try PvP. This much is true. Its value cannot be understated. When the Core Destiny Experience is Changed for what is, in all reality, a small fraction of the player base, is when the game takes a Real hit. Look at the PvE Nerf Updates and look at the numbers within 1-2 weeks. Its obvious. Tl;dr: Gambit Prime [b][u]desperately[/u][/b] needs SBMM.

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  • Edited by Haunter: 3/7/2019 10:45:37 PM
    [quote][quote]D2 Y1 was far worse then any point of the series, it is the main reason our population tanked ([b]and Y1 had forced sbmm throughout vanilla and coo I might add[/b]) and while it has recovered much the lack of new things to run and long, boring waits for updates have dried the game out again.[/quote] You knowingly target SBMM as the reason for D2Y1’s Failure despite [u]knowing[/u] that it failed due to Lack of fun and Accessible End-Game Content.[/quote]There were many reasons Y1 failed, certainly set weapon roles, special weapons and boring progression were factors, I never said sbmm was [u]the[/u] factor however it definitely was one that led players to drop pvp which during D1 kept the population alive between content draughts, this is further evidenced by warmind exploding with pvp players after the change - I need hardly remind you if you were here in D1 how hated sbmm was to most of the base, so much so the protest against it was so clear cosmo remembers it to this day (and has even posted as much here) [quote][quote]”BuT bEtTeR pLaYeRs WiLl WiN mOrE" Yeah, and? It's almost as if becoming a better player were incentivized.... ...[b]50% of the base having all of pvp cater to them isn't healthy[/b] you will forever be mad at something that's the standard.[/quote] You [b]again[/b] target SBMM when the reality is that [b]the problem is Bungie catering to PvP in general[/b].[/quote]Where has bungie catered to pvp in general? Quite the opposite, forsaken launched with massive pve content and a handful of pvp maps and has remained that way even with black armory (more pve) and now drifter (gambit is both so I wont count it for either as its neither true pvp or pve) In fact the only changes to pvp for the entire Y2 were a few forsaken maps and 4 pinnacle weapons along with some balance updates. [quote]When PvE-Main players get bored of PvE, they try PvP. This much is true. Its value cannot be understated.[/quote]Agreed, pvp kept D1 alive during draughts. [quote]When the Core Destiny Experience is Changed for what is, in all reality, a small fraction of the player base, is when the game takes a Real hit.[/quote]What exactly was changed? If you're referring to nerfs see below, if your referring to the topic I was talking about (sbmm) the change was hardly made for a fraction of the playerbase, as I explained Y2 D1 had the biggest storm of protest about it ever, more then even #removeeververse in Y1 D2. This is further evidenced by the requests to keep it off after warmind dropped it and subsequent massive player increase (again not solely due to sbmm removal but certainly aided by it) It was also firmly rejected by the cod community, people hate having no option to not sweat every single game. [quote]Look at the PvE Nerf Updates and look at the numbers within 1-2 weeks. Its obvious.[/quote] This doesnt really have to do with sbmm vs no sbmm but the recent pve nerfs weren't due to pvp. (I am against them as I both enjoy pve and pvp though) Bungie felt Clusters were becoming the only choice for rockets, whisper provided too much, ikelos and threat level were the only special options and lmgs covered too much from boss dps to add clear to major kills. I dont agree with the decision to nerf them but regardless those weren't due to pvp. [quote]Tl;dr: Gambit Prime [b][u]desperately[/u][/b] needs SBMM.[/quote]Not that I care much either way as its pve but why do you believe this? Especially bungies form of sbmm which would pit a good player with 3 terrible ones and match them vs an average team, that would be pretty atrocious as i imagine lower ranked gambit players dont know how it works (killing wizards every stack, killing taken blockers, etc) and likely will remain clueless for a long time

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  • I agree with the first half of this but the 2nd half is pretty ignorant tbh

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  • Tbh it all made sense to me

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  • What exactly is ignorant?

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  • Thank you. Seriously. This entitlement BS needs to stop.

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  • I am amused, pvp and non-competitive in the same idea... Any time you play pvp it is competitive. Playing by different rules doesn't make it any more competitive, just different. Any thought process otherwise is nothing but elitism at work. Go ahead prove me wrong that there is no competition in pvp outside of select playlists. What you really are arguing is your right to stomp newer or less skillful players regularly because you feel the need to rub it in others faces. The lack of needing to put effort into a match is sad of that's what your after. At least be honest about it.

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  • No, it’s that it’s essentially punishing people for being good at PvP when instead, the better you are the more you should be rewarded. People that are good at PvP or it play it over PvE would have to wait longer between games and end up playing the same tiny pool of players constantly as already happens in the higher Glory ranks in Competitive. There are two playlists for a reason. How is it unfair that some people are just better than other people? It’s not and a playlist thats purely streamlined and optimized for connection should absolutely exist, especially as an alternative to a ranked playlist. People that use the term ‘elitist’ just do so as an attempt to stigmatize the higher skilled players.

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  • I use the term elitist to describe their attitude towards others. Constantly I see "get gud scrub" or throwing people down due to their k/d. They deserve no less as that attitude is a cancer to any game. And by making them play people who will actually test them instead of an easy win is a punishment? Seriously? I hope that's a joke. Why is it then that they always complain about crap teammates and noobs ruining their experience? It would solve that issue once and for all. That aside, the purpose of my initial response was to the complete and utter dismissal of any form of competition that doesn't meet this persons standards and how lacking it is in intelligence. Any pvp by definition is competitive gaming, which can not be refuted, fact is fact. But such is the state of the gaming world these days. I have no doubts what so ever that if MLG was playing only on BTB rules then you people would be saying BTB is the only competitive gameplay... Oh well. At least I got some amusement out of this sad state of affairs.

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  • But you already have an entire playlist to pit yourself against people of similar skill and test yourself/improve, that’s the whole point. Of course any “PvP” is competitive by definition but in this context it’s used to differentiate between ranked and non ranked. Perhaps if they incentivised the higher tier players to stay in the competitive playlist rather than take their skills (and weapons) back into the casual playlist there would be less of an issue. Assumedly this was the thinking behind pinnacle weapons. Maybe in future they should bring armour perks onto sets like they have done with Gambit Prime but make them only work in Comp to encourage them to stay in that playlist. The problem with this is that, as with LH/NF, people will complain that they are “locked out” of getting content because they aren’t good enough at PvP. It’s this kind of entitled behaviour that solicits such reactionary responses from “elitists” in the first place. Whichever way you look at it, the people that are good at the game will always want their skill rewarded and the people that are bad at the game will always say it’s unfair.

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  • Question for you? Are the high skilled players being rewarded by having games that take little to no effort? Or is that just so much padding? I am not saying that high level players shouldn't earn some sort of reward for doing well, but the ability to trounce lesser players who are attempting to enjoy a match of pvp shouldn't be it. It's discouragement for players to play knowing they have to suffer through loss after loss with no progress, while the more skilled lose out on the potential for new players to actually get better and provide a good fight. Seems to me that they are only hurting themselves by doing this. And seriously, playing by a specific set of rules doesn't make it any more competitive. Unfortunately people watching professional esports view anything other than those rules as non competitive, which is false.

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  • I’m not arguing the definitions. It’s simply the name of the playlist. The playlist that is the non-casual, skill based playlist with pinnacle rewards. Quickplay is designed to be [i]quick[/i]. It is a game mode without incentive or pressure. Everyone deserves that privilege, not just the people who aren’t as good and it seems especially unfair to revoke that privilege from people who obviously favour PvP over other game types. I also fail to see the logic that it is somehow simultaneously only the top 10% of players that are benefitting from this arrangement [b]and[/b] that every game people are playing they are getting “trounced”. Sometimes, some people aren’t as good as others. That’s what makes competition fun and you know, [i]competitive[/i].

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  • Yet the others in this response have consistently argued that quick play is non competitive, which is completely false. Quick play should indeed be used for quick matches, but when matches consistently end up in a blow out for one team or the other then perhaps it is worth a look at how those teams are being matched. More often than not when playing crucible it was a blow out by massive amounts. Can't tell you how many times I have seen the "we are breaking up those teams to find a better match" yet still be matched in a game that has the same kind of result. What's more is that generally these blow outs are caused by 1 or 2 individual players. More than half of your teams score being made up by 1 player seems wrong, don't you think? I can tell you honestly, I'm no pvp god. I don't pretend to be. I will play against anyone without flinching. Always have, but that doesn't mean there is any sort of enjoyment by being stomped again and again by top tier players. Not only do I not improve (lifespan measured in seconds some time) but it is discouraging to continue playing. I just can't see it being continually amusing or rewarding for the top tier players either who don't have to put in effort to win. I figure that it would get boring fast. Perhaps a wider matchmaking protocol would work. Maybe averaging team k/d to make even matches. I don't know. I don't have the answer, but that doesn't mean sbmm isn't an answer. So many times I see top tier players call it a shield and excuse for lesser skilled players. Yet it also insulates the top tier from each other so they can stomp everyone they face. There is never a mention of that. They seem to be avoiding challenges just as they claim lower tier players are. And for the record. I truly believe that if groups like MLG used regular playlist game types then players would be claiming those game types are the be-all end-all of competitive play. Which brings me back to my original point that any pvp mode is competitive gaming.

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