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Edited by BarrelRidinDaddy: 3/7/2019 3:24:24 PM
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Here is the problem when you cater to the top. The bottom leaves, which many think is fine, we can do without that 5-10%. However, this creates a new bottom. And it doesn’t take long before that bottom gets frustrated and leaves too. This continues until all you got left is a small portion of the top players playing the game. Then they bitch things are always sweaty and game isn’t fun. Which is what each lower base was saying when they left. If you break them all by 10%. The 2nd group of 10% has the lower 10% to beat until they leave. So they get the occasional feel good moment. But once the bottom 10% leave, so does that experience. This is what is being seen now. Its fact that the player base is shrinking again. Trending right back to CoO era. We dont really even get to know how bad because the numbers are bs. Both pve and pve include gambit. If you go to tower, it counts you as pve. It still adds those playing destiny 1. It double counts those like myself that play on 2 platforms. Under 600k on a drop day? Thats scary bad because it means the vast majority didnt even attempt to turn it on. They have lost all interest. Thats not good for those of us that love the game. By time played and accomplishments, I am in the top 5%. I should love this right? Sorry, no, i dont. As a clan founder and a guy with many gamer friends, it really sucks. Because unless you are a streamer type or just very lucky with how good ur friends are, you end up playing alone or always having to find new people to play with. Guys that dont have the time, quit. People that fall behind, quit. People that dont get great drops quit. I cant do what top streamers do and make a tweet and have 40 people answer and be ready to run. None of my guys are still playing. Great players too. Guy that was top 20 in pvp, gone. Dudes with 500-1200 raids gone. Guys who were top 100 in LL each dlc release, gone. How many times does bungie expect to rebuild a clan? Why do i have to fight to create activity, shouldn’t the game create it? Im tired of continually having to meet and build the relationships and trust, that it takes to be a great day one raid team. What bungie needs to learn. The outliers on the sides do not work. Cater to to the 70-80%. Maybe you will keep a much larger piece of the community playing the game. When you boil a frog, it does know it. Its dead before it realizes the water is getting hotter. Thats how catering to top 5% works. Each degree hotter is the bottom group leaving, before you know it, no ones playing. Launch did the same thing, but from the other side. Bungie needs to try another approach. Only thing that may cause that is a big drop in player base, which is coming, very soon.
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  • Edited by souldcode: 3/8/2019 3:18:36 PM
    ^This! I’ve been stuck in an odd recruitment cycle for a while now. Most of the people coming in are either brand new (or basically new), or vets whose clans are inactive. In concept this is great. We get a balance of fresh, wide-eyed new players and grizzled vets to help support them. On the front lines, however, newer players want to (sometimes have to) do older content, and vets don’t get enough new stuff as an incentive to put in the extra time to stick around and help them. So new players begin to age without any real progression, and the vets get bored. On top of that, I have NO tools to reward those who do stay and help out day after day, month after month, and the game’s rng just slaps them in the face over and over. I think this game needs to cater to the people who actually implement the path to becoming legend, the ones who walk-the-walk in the trenches. I don’t know what percent of the player-base that is - bottom 50, middle 70, upper 80 - call it whatever, but that’s where the total base begins to crumble.

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  • Great Post

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  • That's right when you make changes to any game, you cater to the middle 75% -80% of the players. Catering to either side of the 10%-20% just makes people on the other side quit.

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  • Right, especially in a community where all top tier players refuse to help out. Not only that but top tier players like to make fun of solo players who are just trying to get to fabled. Once you reset your Glory rank you should be locked out of comp plain and simple. You have Luna’s and NF and solo players have zero chance of going up against fireteams with those guns.

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  • I deleted the game after season of the forge dropped and all the jokes aside i love flying around the mapson Anthem and engaging enemys in various types of fights Bungies changes and constant push towards pvp activities tired me of the gameand ill never return

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  • If you cater to the bottom the top 50% gets bored and just quits playing because the game is too easy and boring.

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  • And what about games like Fortnite or PUBG or Overwatch, where the game caters to those who oy play games for an hour at a time? You get literally nothing but shaders for playing heavily. They have hundreds of millions of players, have for a couple of years, and are still popular right now. Games that cater to the bottom 80 do demonstrably better and live longer than games that don't.

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  • Not true. Wtithout the bottom 50%, you can't make enough money with a AAA game to make it profitable. The fact is that gaming needs casuals more than it needs hardcores. They are greater in number, and usually have more money to spend.

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  • Casuals bring in more short term money but don't provide useful feedback or any real longevity to a game. Loot grinder games are not conducive to casual play to begin with.

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  • [quote]Casuals bring in more short term money but don't provide useful feedback or any real longevity to a game. Loot grinder games are not conducive to casual play to begin with.[/quote] [i]The Flute that Thinks Itself The Entire Symphony.......[/i]

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  • Your cute little aphorism isn't really relevant nor does it refute anything I said. Nice try though, at least you mistakenly thought it was clever or something, I guess.

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  • Edited by kellygreen2: 3/8/2019 4:30:36 PM
    Actually it does. Its the reference to someone or something that is part of a larger group with an outsized and inappropriate view of its own importance. Which describes the attitudes of a lot of 'hardcore" gamers perfectly. Let me put it bluntly. Making videogames is a business....and unless there is a means ot turning hardcore gameplay into MONEY...then being a hardcore player doesn't mean shit. ..and hardcore player are often the most hostile towards the sort of monetization that makes that sort of participation in the game valuable. Where casuals are often willing to spend money to buy their way around the grindiness of many games like this. Without it Warframe wouldn't be able to survive.

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  • I get what the phrase means, I'm merely pointing out it's not relevant because in this case the hardcore, long-term players are more important and are the actual support for longevity of the game. You think casuals who buy then ditch games are somehow more important because there are more of them. Your whole post is projection, delusional and ironic.

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  • Edited by kellygreen2: 3/8/2019 6:55:19 PM
    [quote]I'm merely pointing out it's not relevant because in this case the hardcore, long-term players are more important and are the actual support for longevity of the game.[/quote] Unless the developer can MONETIZE that....no they aren't. ...and in gaming, the hardcore players (unless its a sub-fee game) are actually the most DIFFICULT to monetize. Not the easiest. Hence....once again.....the aphorism. The reality is that gaming needs casuals more than they need hardcores....because the casuals gamers are generally time-poor/[b]money-rich[/b]....while hardcores are time-rich/[b]money-poor.[/b]

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  • Casuals aren't spending money on the game if they aren't playing. A majority of the people logging in after the game is over 2 years old aren't casual really. You're also ignoring that "whales," which are almost exclusively hardcore players, bring in way more long term money than noobs who just pick up and ditch games often. Again, casuals bring in good initial money but catering to them doesn't make the game profitable in the long run. You have no clue what you are talking about. Just move on lol.

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  • The game is already to easy and boring. That's why 96% of the player base don't play this trash anymore.

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  • Meanwhile everyone is crying about nerfs, gambit prime being too hard and their power fantasy being ruined. Lmao

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  • Agreed, thats my entire point. Quit catering to either side. Cater to say the 75-80% player and try to keep them all, but mostly the big group in the middle. So far in d2 its been bottom portion and top portion, both have lead to many people leaving the game. This is coming from someone in the top portion.

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  • Yup. They just can't find the middle ground. It's always extremes with them. All in on grind, all in on casual, back to all in on grind, all in on the Forges, all in on Gambit. Btw, guardian.gg has Crucible population without Gambit. 213,018 across all platforms yesterday. Was around the same the day before and had been at 200-300k for a couple weeks now.

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  • Sage post. Great summary of what is currently happening with player engagement.

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  • There will always be tens of thousands of players until D3 anyway, "everyone will leave until it will be only sweaties" is something the pro-sbmm crowd spread and is totally not true.

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  • Edited by BarrelRidinDaddy: 3/7/2019 4:51:50 PM
    .....

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  • Yep, you’re right. I’ve been saying if off and on for a while now. There’s a big middle ground that Bungie keeps missing. They’ll occasionally hit it with something by accident but by the next update they’ll have swung all the way in one direction or the other again.

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  • The bottom of the player base being casuals and solos is a lot more than 10%. Try 50%.

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  • Making it an even bigger issue. As i said i made them each 10% to better explain what happens. But even in those casuals, there are varying degrees of casuals. I see it in clans. Had a casual get a day one raid clear the last dlc. So while i agree, that as a whole the casual group is very big, i have seen very different acting casuals. Its a group with many sub groups. And many are great players. Normally casual because of time.

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