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Edited by Lost Sols:
3/7/2019 12:40:18 PM
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Destiny 2 has a growing loot problem (to go along side leveling and matchmaking problems)
Destiny 2 has a loot problem. It's been building for awhile now, but each progressive dlc in year 2 is pushing it further towards critical mass.
The game is a looter-shooter and while I understand some players thought random rolls was the answer and the magic that was missing, I think we can lay that to rest at this point.
My 50th Better Devil's or Prodigal armor piece aren't any more exciting or interesting because of random rolls. When D2 came out, I immensely enjoyed grinding the different planet vendor gear sets.
17 months later they have the EXACT SAME GEAR.
In year one, Vanguard, Crucible, IB, Trials and Factions all got new armor ornaments each season. Maybe it wasn't entire new sets, but it kept them interesting. Year 2?
We're in the 2nd of 3 DLC and Trials and Factions are gone and Vanguard, Crucible and IB have the same gear they did in Sept 4, 2018.
I get that it takes a lot of time to create new content, but this should have been made a priority long before now. Random rolls was never the answer outside of a band-aid and the game would've been much better off giving each variation a slightly different skin design and name rather than 20 versions of Better Devil's.
Destiny 2 has a leveling problem. This is particularly exposed by this new expansion that, with no raid as a guise to level up to, lays bare how pointless another 50 level grind is. The numbers are literally meaningless as we just are progressing to where we just were.
Beyond that, the entire leveling system is counter-productive to the rest of this expansion. This loop was created of playing Gambit Prime and the Reckoning, but here's the thing; if we do find that content loop enjoyable, we're punished for playing it because we stop progressing on leveling.
I have ZERO interest in playing this content solo, but I did just play a few hours of it with a friend and I have to say that it was fun. Reckoning was kinda meh at first blush (not the best or worst arena mode they've done), but Prime is much better than OG Gambit and actually pretty fun. Unfortunately outside of any Prime Engrams that might drop, there's the weekly Gambit bounty and then nothing.
Played 3 hours, started at 650 and finished at 651. Everything drops 20-30 power below our character level including the Infamy rank up packages! It's insane that a drop that takes hours of play time investment isn't even an up. Even the full rank reset packages aren't ups. They drop at our character PL.
It's awesome that there are lots of powerful bounties for those that like variety, but I've been here since D1 day 1 and I don't need the game forcing me to "experience everything", just like I don't need it forcing me to try new weapons with a horrid infusion system.
I can't speak for anyone else, but if the level cap had stayed 650 or only gone up 15-20 levels like expansions of old, I'd have a different perspective on things, but I think another 50 levels was a mistake.
Destiny 2 has a matchmaking problem. I've already written thousands of words on this so I'm not going to rehash it here, but I will say it's extremely disappointing that there not only were no adjustments this season, but that it hasn't ever even really been addressed or discussed.
Yesterday was a DLC release day and for the first time that I can remember, there were less PvE players than Gambit/Crucible.
Yesterday saw:
563.1k PvE
366.9k Gambit
213k Crucible
Again, this is on a major content release day. Those numbers are frightening and I think it clearly shows that players aren't excited to go grind the same content we've already grinded for 265 levels since Forsaken dropped for another 50 meaningless levels.
I also think it clearly shows that listening to the top 10% on how to save the game and particularly Crucible has not panned out. 90% of the population have walked away and washed their hands of PvP. It's great Truevanguard and Gigz can put up all their highlight videos to get retweeted or put in #motw, but the players getting farmed are over it.
It's really sad that we're here again with so much ambivalence for the game because there's a ton of cool things in this game and it's still there best feel of any shooter I've ever played. The problem is it's equally good at shooting itself in the foot and for all the incredibly cool/fun things, there's a pointless forced/micromanaged experience that sucks all the fun out of it.
D2 Y1 had plenty of flaws, but it was a cohesive unified vision and all the parts for together. Year 2 is a bunch of square pegs in round holes.
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25 RepliesEdited by DredLaP: 3/7/2019 3:24:24 PMHere is the problem when you cater to the top. The bottom leaves, which many think is fine, we can do without that 5-10%. However, this creates a new bottom. And it doesn’t take long before that bottom gets frustrated and leaves too. This continues until all you got left is a small portion of the top players playing the game. Then they bitch things are always sweaty and game isn’t fun. Which is what each lower base was saying when they left. If you break them all by 10%. The 2nd group of 10% has the lower 10% to beat until they leave. So they get the occasional feel good moment. But once the bottom 10% leave, so does that experience. This is what is being seen now. Its fact that the player base is shrinking again. Trending right back to CoO era. We dont really even get to know how bad because the numbers are bs. Both pve and pve include gambit. If you go to tower, it counts you as pve. It still adds those playing destiny 1. It double counts those like myself that play on 2 platforms. Under 600k on a drop day? Thats scary bad because it means the vast majority didnt even attempt to turn it on. They have lost all interest. Thats not good for those of us that love the game. By time played and accomplishments, I am in the top 5%. I should love this right? Sorry, no, i dont. As a clan founder and a guy with many gamer friends, it really sucks. Because unless you are a streamer type or just very lucky with how good ur friends are, you end up playing alone or always having to find new people to play with. Guys that dont have the time, quit. People that fall behind, quit. People that dont get great drops quit. I cant do what top streamers do and make a tweet and have 40 people answer and be ready to run. None of my guys are still playing. Great players too. Guy that was top 20 in pvp, gone. Dudes with 500-1200 raids gone. Guys who were top 100 in LL each dlc release, gone. How many times does bungie expect to rebuild a clan? Why do i have to fight to create activity, shouldn’t the game create it? Im tired of continually having to meet and build the relationships and trust, that it takes to be a great day one raid team. What bungie needs to learn. The outliers on the sides do not work. Cater to to the 70-80%. Maybe you will keep a much larger piece of the community playing the game. When you boil a frog, it does know it. Its dead before it realizes the water is getting hotter. Thats how catering to top 5% works. Each degree hotter is the bottom group leaving, before you know it, no ones playing. Launch did the same thing, but from the other side. Bungie needs to try another approach. Only thing that may cause that is a big drop in player base, which is coming, very soon.
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2 RepliesDestiny 2 is not a looter shooter anymore, it's a long ass quest shooter for fixed rolls and it stinks.
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The loot complaint is something I can strongly relate to. As someone who played since the beginning of season 1, I miss all of the gear I earned because random rolls made them essentially worthless. It would have been so easy to add more perks to the pool on every existing weapon prior to Forsaken instead of downright removing them. Now they drip-feed us one old gun per season instead of creating new weapons to give us in crucible/strikes. Honestly, it's ridiculous. The year one weapons looked amazing, they were fun to use, and felt rewarding to have. Now we get one of 10 weapons that look like garbage, or a half decent weapon remastered from year one. AND ANOTHER THING: All the armor in forsaken (save for dreaming city/last wish stuff) looks like we grabbed our clothes out of a dumpster. I want to look like a badass, not a hobo. The gambit armor from season 4 looked disgusting, the vanguard set was dumb, and the hunter cloak from crucible gives you goddamn cornrows. Nobody asked for half of the stuff that has come out of year two, and It's only getting worse. Less weapon variety from older activities. Disgusting armor. Nerfs left and right. And an insane amount of problems that are making the game boring as all hell. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this game is a job, and we're not even making minimum wage.
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7 RepliesThe game needs random rolls. Except..... bungie decided that random rolls was an excuse to produce less loot. D1 had random rolls and tons of new loot per expansion. Now we get one or two new sets of armor and one new set of guns. They forgot they were a loot game.
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2 Replies[quote]The game is a looter-shooter and while I understand some players thought random rolls was the answer and the magic that was missing, I think we can lay that to rest at this point.[/quote] I felt we needed random rolls back like we had in D1, but the stark difference is that in D1 [u][i][b]THEY REFRESHED THE LOOT TABLES WITH EVERY FLOCKING EXPANSION.[/b][/i][/u] They didn't just leave us with the same gear. EVERYONE got a slate of new weapons, new armor, etc. WHERE IS THE NEW OPEN WORLD STUFF IN D2? Why the hell are there still vendors in this game with vanilla gear?? It's absurd! Lost Sols, this post is 100% spot on.
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Bungie is currently recycling a lot of their weapons, and it shows. Exotics are basically 3/4 D1 exotics, and the rest are unique exotics. A lot of the Y1 exotics that weren't brought back from D1 suck or were mediocre. Bungie needs to step up their quality management.
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Bungie will never give a -blam!- about any of this. The pattern of "one good DLC followed by a year of nothingness" is financially working for them and they don't care how many threads ppl make about it. Their main staff is clearly sitting at Destiny 3 since Forsaken released and even if the whole player base stops playing altogether now it won't matter. Once Destiny 3 rolls around they know they'll be swimming in cash again. And nothing but money matters to Bungie.
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Understand this post so much, At least if there were D1 weapon and armour progression there would be a reason to continue the grind searching and levelling the best armour. Guess I miss the old times :(
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1 ReplyEdited by Sarges24: 3/8/2019 7:56:38 AMyou say, "I get that it takes a lot of time to create new content..." like that means anything. 99.7% of new weapons and armor in Destiny have always been reused assets with new skins. Look at the new Vanguard Pinnacle weapon, reskinned Hung Jury from D1. Hung Jury was a reskin of something else. Instead they spend time making this fugly ass ghosts, sparrows and ships. Don't get me wrong, it's nice having some options but those have ballooned to near ridiculousness. You are correct though. One issue with D1 was that often Bungie made our old gear/weapons irrelevant by lowering their power value and forcing us to acquire all new weaponry/armor. They have addressed this issue and now allow us to keep the items we like, well, kind of anyway since removing mods from D2 Y1 made old armor irrelevant. But new weapons and armor are a necessity. I'd prefer Destiny be an MMO but it's clear it's more of a so called Looter Shooter. Regardless there needs to fresh new shiny toys to chase. Granted there's going to be some weapons/armor of old we prefer due to look or function but there needs to a continuous flow of new content including armor and weapons. Though this is one of many issues plaguing Destiny. I will agree and say that it's one that should be easy to fix. re-skin some D1-D2 weapons, modify the stats slightly, perks, whatever, easy peasy. Maybe even throw a few new items in for good measure.
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Majority of your post i agree with you however i strongly disagree you highlighting Random Rolls as the main issue. There are no new guns to chase for in the game with Random Rolls Other then couple perks rest is pretty useless When you combine above 2 , it creates the issue. Random Rolls was never an issue on D1 because there were new guns- armour with each expansion , there were more meaningful perks that could alter your play style . Destiny 2 lacks these because Bungie wants to do min work and make max amount of profit. Another major issue why player count is low : There is not enough content. I turned the game on looked and see game still asks me to do same boring milestones only and i closed the game. We were already doing those boring milestones for the past 15 months, When you ship your new expansion with basically no change other then nerfs , players will surely loose interest.
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Agreed 👍
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My god Bungie read this post! 😂
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Edited by Dayknight: 3/8/2019 1:38:31 PMFinally someone mentioned the vendors and planetary vendors. Couldn’t have said it any better. For all the changes they made the biggest miss was the vendors and planetary vendors. In D1 the vendors rotated every week which made it interesting to see what was available. Why are most players going for the same roll on guns? Rampage, outlaw, kill clip. Majority of the perks are useless and just plain bad, or are very one dimensional. I still don’t understand why they have the exact same armor they did when d1 dropped. Its so frustrating see so many parts of this game get dropped, forgotten and push aside for other obvious “pushes” to where they want players to gravitate towards. Yes I think we can all agree that listening to the top 10% has not worked out. The Enhancement cores situation proves that.
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Random rolls is something we wanted and i'm glad its back. The problem is that 75% of the perks suck. World vendors are so bad. No new strikes in the past 2 content drops. No new weapons and armor from the majority of the vendors. I hate to compare to d1 but they added new gear every dlc or content drop. They also changed perks weekly on weapons and armor. Blah.
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2 RepliesRandom rolls were really the wrong focus. Nostalgia push and all. But the game needed/needs more loot, not more iterations on a handful of loot. If they'd made 50 new guns with fixed rolls, it'd be the same fix as random rolling, just you'd be chasing a specific gun rather then playing re-roll farming. And there'd be a ton more of a collection aspect, with those guns filling up pools for other activities. And then you could still grind out rerolling and leveling your masterwork. Presumably (because god knows Devs never seem to know what is effective in their games), you'd also get less outright trash combos too. Whether thats conflicting perks or just dumb ones (Hip fire grip snipers, lol). Putting all the eggs in one basket is getting kind of silly too. Black Armory only added onto the PvE activities. Joker's adds Gambit and a PvE, but locked the PvE behind playing Gambit Prime. Funnelling people into game modes that (after 17 months) they are well decided on their opinion of, is not going to work. There's undoubtedly been lots of duds with Gambit Prime so far specifically because you have to go in and kill 8 blockers with a shotgun or whatever to unlock Reckoning, and the folks who dislike Gambit will go in and just await blockers to finish that out.
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I have to agree on the power level increase. It was ok when you could choose an activity to level up in but now it's just painful cause you don't exactly get to play how you want. Bungie states this game is better played with friends. All I see from these power increases is that it splits up friends. There is always someone that is behind from the last increase and someone new that falls behind after the increase. Well that was when there were people still playing.
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Edited by Brogorr: 3/8/2019 6:11:04 PMThis is so true and there are so many minor changes that would make the game better. Little things like more shader space or something to do with all the planetary material from dreaming city even add it to spiders inventory would be sweet. It also feels like as soon as the new season is out the old one is completely dropped. I still have so many unanswered questions about the black armour and now it’s like the black armour was never there.
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3 RepliesThey need remove the soft cap, and remove or take enhancement cores down to 1 to infuse.
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31 RepliesPost is accurate more or less until you blame sbmm removal (which saved this game from the brink) as a reason why people are leaving a game with absolutely nothing to do. Then you shot yourself in the foot
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15 RepliesSbmm has nothing to do with falling numbers Just more of you pushing your agenda of not wanting to face good players And tbh it undermines your points
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3 RepliesEdited by ArchNinja64: 3/8/2019 12:26:42 PMIt’s time for games to throw out the idea of gear having power or item levels assigned to them. It’s old and tired. We don’t want power attached to armor, we want power attached to our character. Armor and weapons should have their perks but not contribute to your characters power. Why not have a much more extended skill tree and let us earn motes of light that we use to power our skills trees and unlock new bonuses to our characters abilities? Things like extra crit damage, faster movement, etc. At least this way we can continually feel more powerful and also not have to look like a homeless guardian every few months too.
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2 RepliesNo Destiny 2 has a solo player problem. Bungie only caters to fireteams now. PvP is terrible and you can’t get in a fireteam unless you pay. D1 I had no problem getting help. Gambit Prime will be the same way. Fireteams will get all the loot then get on the app or LFG and demand you you have this armor or this weapon. Matchmaking is just horrible, solo players should not go up against stacks and lag is horrible. Maybe next season only solo players should get a pinnacle weapon and fireteams should be locked out. No way to get anywhere in pvp without Luna’s, NF or running only shotgun. This shit is getting old real quick.
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5 Repliesfixed rolls: 8M users, 900k daily players. random rolls: 14M users, 500k daily players. random rolls killed Destiny 2. change my mind.
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Totally agree. A vendor refresh, bringing factions and trials back would change everything in that there would be so much to change and a reason to play and feel powerful again.
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4 RepliesLeast important thing right now
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75 RepliesEdited by Haunter: 3/7/2019 4:49:51 PM[quote]Destiny 2 has a matchmaking problem.[/quote]Not at all [quote]I've already written thousands of words on this so I'm not going to rehash it here[/quote]Yes and you've also been set straight thousands of times, non-competitive gamemodes never have and never should have any form whatsoever of sbmm. [quote]but I will say it's extremely disappointing that there not only were no adjustments this season, but that it hasn't ever even really been addressed or discussed.[/quote]Of course it hasnt, theres absolutely nothing to be discussed. Bottom tier players want every single playlist to cater to them and are only getting 80% and are mad it's not happening. That's the end of it, you're not forcing the entire playerbase to play with sbmm, you've got your options for it, you wont be taking ours. [quote]I also think it clearly shows that listening to the top 10% on how to save the game and particularly Crucible has not panned out. 90% of the population have walked away and washed their hands of PvP.[/quote] Enough with the misinformation, you also wrote in this very thread about how pvp numbers were higher then pve ones: 90% of the population have walked away from [u]destiny 2[/u] not for pvp reasons but because theres practically nothing new and the content is stale with nothing on the horizon either. Not because some streamers matched them in pvp and they're upset about that, you attempting to push your narrative with false conclusions to problems that are due to something else is one of the biggest reasons you get criticized here. [quote]It's great Truevanguard and Gigz can put up all their highlight videos to get retweeted or put in #motw, but the players getting farmed are over it.[/quote]Yes because them playing all other players is totally unfair. I've never seen a fortnite post complaining about matching streamers, it's almost as if even the kids know in non-competitive gametypes you'll play vs everyone. [quote]D2 Y1 had plenty of flaws, but it was a cohesive unified vision and all the parts for together. Year 2 is a bunch of square pegs in round holes.[/quote]D2 Y1 was far worse then any point of the series, it is the main reason our population tanked (and Y1 had forced sbmm throughout vanilla and coo I might add) and while it has recovered much the lack of new things to run and long, boring waits for updates have dried the game out again. The annual pass has quality issues to be sure, no new strikes, vendor resets, endgame, etc. Tiny pieces of content that will get boring fast and updates and changes that take so long it's not even worth it, however theres nothing wrong or broken about quickplay - every player being rng matched up with any other player is completely fine. Especially seeing as that occurs in [b][u]1/5[/u][/b] playlists with full sbmm matchmaking in all others "BuT bEtTeR pLaYeRs WiLl WiN mOrE" Yeah, and? It's almost as if becoming a better player were incentivized.... Until you realize that non-competitive playlists and sbmm are opposites and dont work or that the bottom 50% of the base having all of pvp cater to them isn't healthy you will forever be mad at something that's the standard.
