<OK OK, I know what you're thinking when you read this title... actually I don't. I'm no mindreader. Alright, let's move on. LONG AGO (actually like 4 months ago) I was a prominent figure in arguing that the Worm Gods are NOT Ahamkara or vice versa. While this statement continues to be true (from a certain point of view), I cannot deny their relation. Their use of the phrase "O ___ Mine/Ours". They both are Dark entities, but one seems to not care about the Dark or its intentions while the others are fanatical about it. I think that you can tell which is which. BUT SOMETHING STRUCK ME AS ODD. I'm a Nine Conspiracy Theorist, it leads me places deep in enemy lore and also allows me to make major mental jumps few are insane enough to think about. I've noticed that every Nine theory from the Grimoire Card, with the exception of 3, 7, and 9, have come true. 3 references that the Nine COULD BE ancient Leviathan Intelligences from the seas of Europa or the hydrocarbon pits of Titan. Then I noticed something else. 4 of the 9 theories relate to aspects of them. Like how they use a certain language or signal, or how the other two would ultimately reveal their plans if proven correct. The other 5 relate to species, like the aforementioned LI, Deep-Orbit Minds, Ghosts, Awoken, and Jovians. In the lore tab "Emissary", Orin seems to back this up by saying only five were in the Nine. Each member speaks differently, but there's only 5. So what's up with that? [quote]Then why are we afraid? We are Nine. 'Hah. Are you?' A R E W E '…' truth truth count the voices 'One, two, three, four, five. Haha.' They will see it our way, given time. We are the same.[/quote] This is where we move to Shuro Chi. In a version of the Pilgrimage patrol mission, she says this about the Ahamkara. [quote]I have heard it said that the Awoken brought the Ahamkara into this system — that we found them in the ruins of the planet that we carved into the base of the Dreaming City — but if you ask me, they came from the Nine.[/quote] That is particularly interesting. Let's entertain the idea. In the lore tab "Reextinction", the Nine are arguing over the Taking of Riven and the eggs by Oryx. One of them in particular seems more upset. [quote]SHE HAS RUINED EVERYTHING! Such blind arrogance— WE ARE LOST! h u r r y He will recruit them all if we do not act now W H A T C A N W E D O Done cannot be undone! Everything is lost! kill them where they creep and crawl let their bones whisper naught THE CHILDREN! t h e y a r e n o t o u r c h i l d r e n[/quote] So what if (THE CHILDREN!//WE ARE LOST!) is an Ahamkara? But would that be a Leviathan intelligence? Could be, they can shapeshift after all. But let's move... elsewhere. To other mentions of the word "Leviathan". Calus. His ship is named the Grand Leviathan. Let's see what he says about it. [quote]This Leviathan. This prison ship. I will remake it, as I have been remade. No longer will it represent a mythical beast from the dreams of worms. It will serve as an icon for my newfound gluttony.[/quote] Right... what are the "Dreams of Worms"? Funny story for you... [quote]Texts about… well, theorizing about the dark. So little is written, save for that which was recorded from the dreams of worms.[/quote] Did anyone ever mention how Calus knew of the Hive's rise to power? He mentioned it in the Collector's Edition booklet. He used the OXA Machine to view it. He knows of the Books of Sorrow. Is that what he calls the "Dreams of Worms"? Let's assume so in this case. That means the Grand Leviathan is INDEED related to the Leviathan of Fundament. By visuals only, as the GL is a ship while the LoF is essentially a prison warden on Light steroids. But still, it's an interesting thought. If we assume that the Leviathan of Fundament is the species that inspired the design for the prison ship, then are other "Leviathans" connected? Is this a secret ancient species? What if they are the "Leviathan Intelligences" mentioned in the Nine grimoire? If that's the case, and assuming the Ahamkara come from the Nine, are they directly related? Why else would they call Riven their children? The Awoken didn't create the Ahamkara, the dragons have been around since Harmony ages before the Collapse. So Ghosts, Jovians, and Warminds also cannot be responsible for this transgression. Did these Leviathans create the Ahamkara? It's a leap... sure, but there's a chance. Are the Ahamkara the only legacy of their species? What about that undersea Titan monster? It looks like a Worm but what if that WAS one of the LIs from the Nine? What if the LIs are responsible for the creation of both the Worms AND Ahamkara? Could that explain their ties to power or their battle for dominance over another? They aren't the same species, that is truth, but can they be of the same family? Are they battling for the same ecological niche? What drugs am I on? Will I ever find out. This whole thing was a lot easier to explain outloud. Am I losing my ability to write theories down in text? Can I only do this in sketches and conversation? Whatever, thoughts on my most recent rantings are appreciated.>