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12/19/2018 1:02:45 AM
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It is a double standard at play. Non hardcore players who don’t enjoy getting stomped by the hardcore are deemed “whiners”. Yet...somehow...the highly skilled who don’t enjoy playing relatively equal opposition say the status quo is justified by their desire for less sweaty (easier) matches and better connection. Farcical. Can’t get most of my friends to play pvp nowadays.
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  • No it’s simple. Prestige raids and nightfalls didn’t work because no one wanted to work harder for the same things... You guys want to hoard elite players in a corner away from you casuals [b][i][u]AND[/u][/i][/b] not give them anything in exchange. They wasted the time to get good to have easier matches. [b][i][u]CASUALS DIDNT.[/u][/i][/b] So why should they get punished for being talented? Why should casuals reap the same benefit [b]OFF OF A QUICKPLAY MATCH.[/b] If you’re gonna hoard them off in a corner at least give them something shiny. [spoiler]Then again Trials flawless was cosmetics and casuals were still crying about it...[/spoiler]

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  • The day I get called a casual by a guy like you...might as well play the lottery.

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  • Dope. Great argument. So constructive. This is why Bungie doesn’t take you guys seriously... all whining and when given actual topics to debate you guys freeze up. [spoiler]Ill be back on my actual account telling you casuals off on the 27th. Better hear no excuses then.[/spoiler]

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  • Edited by kellygreen2: 12/21/2018 6:58:43 PM
    He didn't freeze up. He just understands that its a waste to time to treat rationalizations like a principled argument. But I'm stubborn....so I'll do it any way..... 1. Playing people of your own skill level isn't a punishment. ([i]If playing someone who can actually BEAT you is a punishment, WTF is being forced to play people who are vastly better than you are all the time??) [/i] 2. The game doesn't OWE you entertainment at someone else's expense. Especially when that person is paying the same money to play this game that you are. 3. Why should "casuals" reap the same benefits? BECAUSE IT IS NOT A COMPETITIVE PLAY LIST. WHICH IS THE VIDEOGAME EQUIVALENT OF A SPORTS LEAGUE. In Quickplay the game REWARDS PARTICIPATION....not successes. So everyone showing up to play QP has the same right to expect to have a fun and entertaining experience. Rather than getting stomped on by people who like to WIN....but lack the courage to actually COMPETE. You want to be rewarded for "being good"....go play Comp. The Luna's and the Not Forgottens are your reward for being GOOD. Go earn you one. But then you'll actually have to compete...and play someone who can actually give you a game.

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  • 1. Playing people of the same skill level is definitely punishment if you’re in top 10%. (No one is forcing anyone to play better people. Also it’s [b]participation[/b] rewards. Get stomped or stomp you still get [b]rewarded.[/b] 2. It doesn’t. But it [b]DOES[/b] owe me entertainment. And seeing as how that’s what you guys are asking for by trying to get rid of higher tier players then they are [b]OWED[/b] something. Especially since it’ll impact them [b]THE MOST.[/b] Mind you they’ll only be impacted for investing the time to actually be good. That isn’t fair... and this is [b]ALL ABOUT BEING FAIR.[/b] [spoiler]Is giving them increased crucible drops or ornaments really that bad. You guys hate competitive players that much?[/spoiler] 3. [b]CASUALS[/b] destroyed trials. Are trying to get easier paths for pvp pinnacle weapons and now also want to hoard better players away? Sounds pretty stupid. Sometimes, just like CASUALS, higher tier players want to play a game mode where losing and winning isn’t so important. Where they can go and not stress about HAVING to win. Yea it’s crazy right? This whole argument has never once, by anyone who has posted it, thought about the higher tier player. If someone invested the time to get better and is a top percent player he [b]SHOULD[/b] be able to slay his competition. He is a top player after all. If his experience is to be changed [b][i]SOLELY[/i][/b] because he is good why shouldn’t he be given something in exchange? That way he is satisfied and there is still incentive to better ones game. [spoiler]You guys talk about good players being biased. It’s like the pot calling the kettle black... [/spoiler]

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  • Wow. Millennial self-caricature: [i]"Its all about me!!" [/i] No...it isn't....and yet so many of you are so confused as to why you are so unhappy....

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  • Lmao. Weirdly enough the guys wanting things brought down to them are somehow saying it’s the others that are selfish. Sorry that some of us want the best to be rewarded for being the best. I thought millennials were the entitlement generation. I guess I was wrong...

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  • [quote]Dope. Great argument. So constructive. This is why Bungie doesn’t take you guys seriously... all whining and when given actual topics to debate you guys freeze up. [spoiler]Ill be back on my actual account telling you casuals off on the 27th. Better hear no excuses then.[/spoiler][/quote] Can’t stake a claim to anything not attached to this account, fwiend. Doesn’t matter what you or I believe. The plurality will decide.

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  • It kinda has. Which is why SBMM is not in Quickplay

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  • Funny thing, that. The supposed top players argue that they want to "relax every now and again" and "just enjoy PvP" (mysteriously, this leads to a perpetual onslaught of "72+ kill games", "pub stomping casuals" etc. videos on YouTube, but I digress). This, of course, means a much sweatier experience for everyone else. So while they can relax, nobody else can. As you say, to be unaware of this is indeed farcical.

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  • [quote]So while they can relax, nobody else can.[/quote] [i] Ding!![/i] We have a winner......

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  • The reason this belief exists (at least from my POV) is that I worked to get to a point where I am better than a lot of other players and thus deserve the ability to relax and enjoy casual pvp. It’s like real-life where you work your ass off to get a high-paying job and make lots of money. You then deserve to get more time to relax on a beach and savor the fruits of your labor. So I guess what people like myself are trying to say is... welcome to real life.

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  • I didn't buy this game to learn "life's lessons" but thanks.

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  • Just sayin... better learn now kid rather than getting used to entitlement

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  • [quote]Just sayin... better learn now kid rather than getting used to entitlement[/quote] Expecting the game to put you against inferior opponents instead of relatively equal opposition is by definition [i]entitlement[/i]. A machine rated for 100kg can move 1kg. A machine rated for 1kg cannot exert the force required to displace 100kg. The same proportional forces are required to for the 1kg machine to move 1kg as with the higher spec machine to move 100kg and so on. Or- Just like stoichiometry we required X moles of substance A and B to produce Y moles of substance C. Closed systems tend toward equilibrium. Without required amounts reactions cannot occur. Matchmaking as with the physics or chemistry example is much the same. Without balance the system collapses into dysfunction. Equilibrium is sustainable.

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  • And because the number of top tier players is so much smaller than the amount of average players, we have this balance and the system is sustainable. The only thing that breaks said system is when the top tier player band together to form stacks. Otherwise one or two top players in a lobby does not ruin the experience for most.

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  • Edited by LoganX: 12/21/2018 2:11:55 AM
    [quote]I worked to get to a point where I am better than a lot of other players...[/quote] From what I can tell based on years of experience and seeing how online play has change and the players along with it I've come to the conclusion that you are an anomaly and your attitude is more genuine than most. It seems to me that most of the people who 'like' to pubstomp are players with more [u]inate[/u] skill where the gsme comes easy to them and they like showing off the things that appease their external gratification. However when faced with actual competition they don't like to sweat through it. They're not used to [u]working[/u] at their success. This is part of the biggest problem with the people supporting CBMM.

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  • I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you aren't sitting on a high-paying job. As a lawyer and CEO (who enjoys video games, imagine that), I can assure you the exact opposite of what you believe to be true is. The higher up the corporate world you get, the more you may earn, but the higher demands there are. If you want to make it real big (as the kids say), you have to make sacrifices. Welcome to real life.

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  • You’d be correct I just graduated from university and plan on entering a Master’s program next year so I do not have a high paying job at the moment. However my father and uncles are senior engineers at various companies and for all the hard work they did early in their teens and 20s they have lived simple, very relaxed lives since. I guess one’s experience may be based on profession and place of employment.

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  • Until the pitchforks come out....

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  • Wanna know the real double standard? They want the same thing To be matched up in easier matches so they dont have to play their best all the time to play well Yet when we want it. gah!!!! Their assholes!!!

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  • [quote]Wanna know the real double standard?[/quote] Let's see it. [quote]They want the same thing [/quote] Ah, no. Those close games you dislike because they don't afford relaxation without loss? [i]That's[/i] what we want. We'd take that all the time because that's the best case we can hope for from a proper SBMM system. No system that would regularly give weak players matches they have a 80% chance of winning is being discussed here. [quote]To be matched up in [b]easier[/b] matches ...[/quote] [i]Relatively[/i] easier matches. Don't forget that word, it's important. A game that has about a 50% chance of going either way is relatively easier than one where one has an 80% chance of losing. But it's not an easy game in the absolute. [quote]To be matched up in easier matches so they dont have to play their best all the time to play well[/quote] You're not really getting it. We want 50/50 (-ish) games. In order to win a 50/50 game, players always have to play their best. That goes for me, for you, and players of every skill in between. Again, we're not asking for the frequent pub stomps the current MM regularly gives good players. When we want that, we go play a strike. [quote]Yet when we want it. gah!!!! Their assholes!!![/quote] What you want is just not the same thing we want. The double standard exists only if you mischaracterize what Sol and the pro-SBMM side are really asking for.

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  • This is it exactly. These jokers talk out both sides of their mouths. "Sbmm is bad because every game is sweaty and you can never just relax and have fun!" "You just want sbmm because you don't want to have to try and want easy matches!" And they wonder why everyone thinks they're such awful human beings.

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  • That's always the result when people argue from emotion and self-interest, rather than principle. As well as the fact that people who benefit from unfair and unjust arrangements almost always make excuses for them....and almost NEVER give up the power and privileges obtained from them WILLINGLY. You usually have pry it out of their hands. [i]"When Privilege becomes Equality, it can feel a lot like Oppression."[/i] ----Anonymous.

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  • Seems pretty awful to ask for SBMM in a casual game mode. It makes it not casual and not compensating the higher tier players for being higher tier is pretty selfish. Stop trying to punish players for being better than you.

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