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#feedback

Edited by Tidal4ce: 8/31/2018 6:05:26 PM
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An open letter regarding crucible bans/restrictions.

"Effective September 4, 2018, we will apply more restrictions and bans to player accounts that benefitted from opponent disconnects at a highly abnormal frequency throughout Season 3 with our improved detection methods. This will include “voluntary” disconnects when players are repeatedly matching against the same opponents." Bungie, this is a game populated by teenagers, young adults, and frustrated middle aged men/women. Punishing anyone for this whilst making no attempts to interfere, object, declare, warn or otherwise reprimand individuals as it was GOING ON but secretly monitoring the situation? Who exactly are you protecting here? I never cheesed, I never arranged to fix matches, but y'know what, there was this one time where a guy begged me for his seventh win. We'd spent two or three weekends together grinding trials. By fluke a week later we got into the same match. My team was good, but we'd been getting our butts kicked so often that we had no wins. I offered to let him take the seventh match. Rather than throwing 5 rounds in a row we went to orbit. We felt good, even proud of taking the high road cause hey, it was just a game. How is that situation any different than a bunch of people exploiting your system to socially agree to do something much similar? People were frustrated, upset, insulted, degraded, teased, taunted, and peer-pressured into doing this. If you think this isn't the case you, my friend, are wrong. I think you need to have interrupted, intervened or otherwise made contact with individuals while it was going on. You needed to do more, at the time to prevent the spread of this instead of punishing people after the fact. I could not give a crap if someone is top crucible player because of this. Going forward, yes, please ban, suspend, disrupt and punish people but not retro-actively! Some people are going to slip through the cracks. Some people are going to be incorrectly identified. All because of ONE weapon. So those who got away with it might do it again, those who didn't regretfully blacklisted for something they took as a casual prank. You think professional streamers cheesed it? You better believe they did. This issue stretches to your culture, your social spaces, and a lack of prevention. I blame Bungie for this mess and they are incorrectly identifying themselves are judge, jury and executioner. They are not the victim and I am not the victim. The people who got sucked into the culture of it got victimized. For crying out loud one of the largest PC/LFG Discord's with something like 50,000 people had a dedicated cheese LFG. The culture of weapon attainment stretches back to D1, and the level of social ridicule people endured, social pressure, and elitism is appalling by all accounts. I mean the greater question is: How can carries free/paid ever be deemed an offense worth a banning? Should we avoid grouping together for fear that the repercussions will be delayed and so heartbreaking I should avoid participating in any social event? If someone is hacking, or DDoS attacking shouldn't that be more important? Great way to bring it all out into the open, I believe this resembles entrapment and not a crime. I really mean it. This is intended as an open letter, and I hope that you (reader) will take the opportunity to share your thoughts on the situation. This is a polarizing conversation, and I really can't stress enough the type of harm Bungie might be doing to the community by taking this after-the-fact approach. Thank you for your time. -Tidal4ce

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  • I think Bungie have a very clear target of people in mind. As for the retroactive action...just because someone got away with it at the time doesn't mean that they are entitled to a free pass. If the action can't be publicized, and is dealt with in taboo and hushed tones...well there is likely a reason the perpetrator is ashamed: because the action was wrong or shameful.

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  • Let see..... If you don't cheat , your fine If you don't quit, your fine If you did cheat, you should get banned If you constantly quit or drop matches, you should get a temporary ban as you clearly didnt want to play PVP Moral of the story, don't cheat, finish games win or lose and have some fun. ( and if you think that them monitoring things behind the scenes is unfair or trying to protect people, major business's do this all the time. IE you think its random that Jimmy gets walked out of the office on a Friday, yet his Company has been investigating him for months before they made the choice to do it with strong evidence. The Company owes you no explanation for this. Next week a new letter comes out saying , hey dont steal stuff from the company please. See what im saying? )

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    • Woah woah woah... What's that "cheese" you're talking about? I've been wasting a lot of time on these forums, and I've read of che[b]at[/b]ers, but not che[b]es[/b]ers! Oh. Oh... Have you guys devised a way to consistently match against the same people using, oh, a Netduma or some such? Tsk tsk tsk! Don't worry, I bet the worse that's going to happen to you guys is a restriction (temporary) and the repossession of your prize weapons. The bans will be reserved for the true DOSing or lagswitching assholes. Take your licks, don't do it again.

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      • [quote]You needed to do more, at the time to prevent the spread of this instead of punishing people after the fact[/quote] Completely disagree! Cheaters are scum of the earth. They cheat and they know what they are doing is wrong. Blaming Bungie for the cheater's action is stupid. That's like blaming a bank for being robbed instead of the actual person who robbed it. Also blaming "the culture" is the lamest excuse ever as well! There was a cheat in the raid a while back and it seemed like everyone was doing it. I never did it... not even a single time and it was terrible because I would actually have to post in my LFG posts "no cheating of any kind in this run". How sad is that that we had to stipulate no cheating? I'll tell you what, everyone has a moral compass and some people are just dirtbags who will ALWAYS be looking for the cheat. They do NOT deserve any kind of break or special pass. They chose their way, let them suffer the consequences! Only dirty cheaters who know they are going to be in the crosshairs would support not retroactively punishing these a-holes that ruin the game for people who play fairly. LET THE BAN HAMMER FLY BUNGIE!

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        • Stupid post is stupid. Not only that, but bungie states in that same ban topic that there will be different punishments for different offenses. “Voluntary disconnects” will likely fall under a warning or super short temp suspension from comp. Meanwhile actual cheating will result in pvp or even account bans from Destiny 2. They already took your advice, if you or your buds or the People you know didn’t ddos then they will be fine.

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        • Wah Wah, cheaters get banned for being cheaters. Cheesing is exactly the same as DDOS. Deserves the same punishment. This post is hilariously pathetic. You cheated and now you’re afraid that you’re going to get banned and you want the sympathy of the community? Ha! Hahaha! Oh! Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Well done Bungie! You’ve finally put some fear into cheaters. It’s about time. Now just be sure to follow through with those permanent bans so they can’t get back on the account they used to acquire the weapon they cheated to get. Make them come back on a new account and earn it for real if they want it. I’m laughing so hard at you idiots now. Good show sir! Good show!

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          • Edited by Zenith: 9/2/2018 11:44:48 PM
            I also find it extremely seedy that Bungie is going to (finally, and out of the blue) punish people for something that's been happening since Y1D1. Whether you cheesed or not, everyone knew it was something Bungie let tens of thousands of people get away with for almost half a decade. This is precisely the reason that people who've never done it before agreed to it. Same thing with so-called Titan skating. Bungie, your priority here should be DDoSers: people that actually threaten the integrity of your game, something that is actually dangerous to expose your consumers to, that you have done very little to protect them from. Bungie, if you're going to punish people who cheesed on their own accounts, then you should also punish those who paid for account recoveries. Or any other paid service for this game. That IS in the ToS, and was before 2 weeks ago. Where is your actual priority? Is it to shut up a bunch of holier-than-thou gamers who want to pretend like they've walked a straight and narrow path their whole life and take this as an opportunity to look down on other people? Not a single person on this thread or anywhere else is innocent of never taking a shortcut in life. Not one. However, Bungie, you've singlehandedly given them a soapbox to stand on and alienated a huge portion of your customer base, notably the portion who actually sticks around and keeps playing even when your content dies. The loyal collectors. Take away the Redrix. Temporarily lock people out of the Competitive playlist. Monitor future matches and punish people who are obviously cheesing matches. Sure. That's reasonable. Anything more than that for people who simply cheesed glory and did not DDoS other players is absurd. The punishment should always fit the crime.

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            • Edited by Razzupaltuff: 9/3/2018 6:18:45 PM
              This entire action of Bungo is so much more immoral as it is their cheapskate P2P protocol that allows rigging PvP matches in the first place. It would also have been dead easy to at least make cheesing PvP matches much harder by simply not pitting two teams having at least one player on each side that got matched in the game before against each other. Another problem is that comp / trials are much less rewarding than in D1. In D1 ,even as a bad player, you could do the bounties and eventually get a good weapon drop. In D2, unless you win, nada. The entire issue is on these sanctimoneus a**holes from Bungo. They have created a shitty PvP design, and now make players pay for their idiocy. Bungo is the dumbest, most full of themselves bunch of game designers I have ever seen. They screw up one game design issue after the next. They do not take psychology into account in that regard (only when it comes down to milking their customers). This company just has deserved to go down, and its responsibles to never get a decent job again.

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            • Couldn't have said it better myself. Correct me if im wrong but is it not slightly illegal in the US to update ur TOS then ban people for breaking the new TOS before it was agreed to? I mean if ur not going to be specific in ur TOS and it gets loop holed. You can't fix that loop hole and then ban people for doing it before you fixed it. Let me know what you think. Also, please excuse my spelling... I know its dreadful, but i was typing fast and im utterly pissed right now.

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              • Bout damn time, but I'll believe it when I see it.

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              • Edited by jkillebrew: 9/4/2018 6:27:04 PM
                I cheesed the heck out of Escalation Protocol. I have about 50 completions and probably 30 of those are cheese completions where you only have to finish levels 6 and 7 again. It took that many to get all three IKELOS weapons. A ton of people did this. Major streamers did this. It took some people 200 or more cheese completions to get all the weapons. By doing this I have trophy weapons that others could not attain in their allotted play time because the drop rate was absolutely was horrific and the 7 levels of EP are time consuming. This cheese allowed me to condense the item drops into less play time. This is cheesing, no different than win swapping in my opinion. Why not ban all EP cheesers? This game is all about cheesing. We find the shortest routes to rewards, we find ways to double dip on public event rewards, to speed up 50 levels of brutal faction grind in a week. Bungie dangled a carrot well outside the reach of many of us and we cheesed our way to it because we're normal people with other things demanding our time, who spent hard earned money on this game and wanted to play in this sandbox in our own way. Cheesing doesn't hurt other people outside of lowering the value of their trophy items. The fix is simple. Take away items people didn't earn fair and square or some other equal punishment, warn them and move on. I do not have Redrix and never played a single round of competitive all season. I just don't see the point of crushing a bunch of kids dreams and breaking up clans over this.

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                • I think Bungie does need to ban people for leaving and people benefiting from leaving, but absolutely not in season 3. It's stupid and childish to do nothing and let the problem get to critical and then ban everyone who cheesed without warning. If Bungie wants to fix the problem then they need to do it by preventing it, or at least warn people.

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                  • The issue isn't carries. The issue is people who are either forcing disconnects or arranging teams to disconnect. If you're gonna carry with prearranged teams, just play the match and throw it. Don't keep matching and D/Cing. That is essentially cheating.

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                  • Edited by Kell Of Stone: 9/1/2018 4:59:56 AM
                    This post is kinda dumb, and TBH I can't tell if your scared you might get banned for leaving one game or what? What point are trying to get a cross? Also why are you against after the fact actions?

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                  • I can’t see the harm in Bungie making their recent public statement on this. Including their changes in ToS. It’s really simple, not emotional at all. This is a shared world environment. It’s clear as day, imho, that ppl who have 20 matches in a row with 2 or 3 ppl on the other team with a DNF in competitive should be cause for further investigation. Nothing wrong with that. Same logic applies to a fireteam’s game history when matched against the exact same other fireteam dozens of time in one day, with similar patterns of leaving sandwiched in between. Cause for further investigation. DDOS/DOS/Lag switching, etc... if it can be proven to Bungie’s satisfaction that it has occurred, Bungie should have every power at her disposal to remedy, as she sees fit the situation. Same for paid carries and recoveries, if she feels they are a detriment to the environment as a whole. (My personal opinion is she should feel it harms the shared world we are all a part of! lol). But, meh, I can live in either world, I’ll either play it bc it’s a fun environment or completely stay away if it is toxic and/or largely 3rd party commercial activities. Now, last point to address is “win swapping”. This is nothing more than artificially creating a private match, but one that counts towards activity specific rewards. Bungie clearly did not allow us to max out our glory ranking and earn armor, weapons, ornaments, etc... through private matches. It’s clear as day this wasn’t their intent for this activity. I have no issues with Bungie, at her discretion, punishing in a manner she sees fit, or not if that’s the case, this group of ppl. There are no victims here, Bungie or we gamers. Gamers know EXACTLY what we are doing wrt this issue. Just bc Bungie May not have paid attention to it as closely in the past as now, or possibly in the future, doesn’t negate the actions already taken by we gamers. Win Swappers know they are bypassing the game’s clear and unambiguous design. Otherwise, Bungie would just have let us all create multiple private matches continuously and get Redrix in a day or two of play. This is also why Bungie has the right to defend her game design. As she sees fit. All punishment, by definition, is retroactive. One can’t punish someone for something that is occurring in real time or in the future. Sometimes it takes multiple sets of eyes, sometimes it takes significant time and resources, sometimes it’s easy to spot. But all punishment comes after your child has already thrown eggs at the principle’s new Camry.

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                    • OMG Bungie, why didn't you warn the cheaters they'd be punished for cheating? It's so unfair of you to hold people accountable.

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                      • ITT: people who cheated to get a Redrix’ Claymore would prefer that bungie not take it away and are really going to be mad n sad if they do. Boo fvckin hoo

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                        • Nah. Cheaters need to be gone. All of them.

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                          • If you cheated, cheesed, or otherwise broke ToS, you deserve a ban. If you didn't do those things, you're safe. Not really rocket surgery here kiddies.

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                            • Edited by Super68: 9/1/2018 12:17:50 PM
                              This "queue dodging" issue is interesting, and the first I have heard of it. I didn't go for Redrix at all but do have an opinion so I'll share it below: I believe there is culpability on both sides of the issue. Players that were repeatedly engaged in this activity KNEW they were "manipulating" the system to obtain the weapon without even having to play a single crucible match. While someone may call this a cheese, it's hardly like "cheesing the bridge" in Crota in D1 in order to solo the activity. In this case, players were getting the reward WITHOUT even playing the game activity. Surely they at least could have strongly suspected Bungie would frown on this, especially since a gun like Redrix was put in the game to appease PVP streamers and elitists with a weapon that very few players could obtain. It was meant to exclaim a Bungie PR statement that "DESTINY COMP PVP IS HARD!" But Bungie could also be accused of a form of "entrapment" as well. When less than 1% of a player population can legitimately obtain the weapon due to the EXTREME difficulty of the activity, you are [u]begging[/u] cheaters to manipulate the system. Which is why Bungie needs DIFFICULT, but still reasonable challenges to obtain the best rewards, not INSANELY difficult challenges. I think they learned this with the changes to the Broadsword, which while time consuming (and probably overly grindy), will be obtainable to those that want to put in the sweat and effort legitimately. TL;DR: Players shouldn't expect to be rewarded for not playing the activity at all. The fact that a punishment could be coming should not be a surprise. Bungie should know that they will most certainly invite cheating if the difficultly to obtain a reward is unreasonable for the overwhelming vast majority of the player base.

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                              • So... can we boil this down to you are worried you are going to get banned?

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                                  You went to orbit to let a guy get his 7th win? If your banned it’s your own fault, I’ve had these messages sent to me also in the past and my mentality was simple, you want it, you earn it!!!!

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                                  • It seems like you and people defending this point of view probably know they cheated and you are looking for a way out of getting banned. Just my opinion. Coming from the point that most people here are saying not to do it retro it just seems like they are trying to hold onto their claymore and/or accounts. I agree that they did breed this culture but it is also their game. And people don’t have enough common sense it seems to know that breaking rules can and will be punishable. Just because you robbed a bank once doesn’t mean you’ll get away with it a second time. And guess what? Past crimes are usually punishable. Carries aren’t frowned upon but encouraged. Though paid carries should be but that is really hard to police and it’s hard to control what people do with their money. It’s the ddosing and account recoveries that violate terms of agreements of both the game and usually the console. Can’t speak for PC but I would assume. And as for your situation. If that ONE incident is all you are actually worried about then I don’t think Bungie’s banhammer will affect you at all. It’s for repeat offenders. I’ve maybe left a match intentionally like 5 times. And unintentionally even fewer. I would believe that this would affect people who have tons of matches left and with the correct criteria.

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                                    • So..... if you know you did something wrong and they continued to let you do it, they shouldn’t punish you? Damn that’s some next level stupidity there I tells ya. Why cheat/cheese/exploit in a [b][u]GAME[/u][/b]? Those are the people who are compensating for something 😉👉

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                                      • Raids and PvE content has been getting cheesed since day 1, glitching bosses to death, 1 manning raids and NFs exploiting the game mechanics, glitching into areas. When did they hand out bans for that....oh thats right, they didnt. They just try and patch that stuff and stop it from happening again. Now people that use aimbot and DDoS....thats a whole different story.

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                                      • Great letter man! Bungie has to admit that it is partly also their fault for letting it come to this! Players have done it BECAUSE Bungie did NOTHING and ignored it for soooo long and everyone thinks they are safe doing so, cause it seemed to be a giant grey zone that seemed to be tolerated to exist. And then out of nowhere a notice that they knew it all along and restrict or even BAN, that is pretty unfair!

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