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Edited by RabbitFly: 8/14/2018 4:56:35 PM
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[quote] Subclass: - sunbreakers - basic idea similar to that of Thor, the god of thunder. The method of acquiring the subclass is very reminiscent of the mythological creation of Mjolnir; both hammers are created using a forge whilst a dark force tries to interfere with creating the weapon (vex in destiny and Loki in mythology). [/quote] While I can see Sunbreaker as a being a nod to thor in general, your short synopsis here goes against what I have been taught about the story. Now I know there are multiple versions of most of these stories out there and it is hard to verify any one version as being more accurate than any other, but as far as I know the story does not have Loki interferring with the creation in the way you seem to lay it out here. Eitri and Brokkr create the hammer because Loki tricks them into creating it by making a bet with them (saying they can remove his head). After which he gifts it to thor. Which would mean your indication that Loki is trying to stop the creation of the hammer rather strange. As Loki is the catalyst for it's creation in the first place. Anyways, just stood out to me.
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  • Loki wants to win the bet so that his gifts where judged as being better than the dwarves, so when they’re forging the hammer Loki turns into a fly and bites the dwarf on his eye lid. This distracts the dwarf from his task which has an impact on the hammer in that the shaft is created too short. Even with this ‘short coming’ the gods judge the dwarves hammer to be a great gift than Loki’s so he looses the bet

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  • Edited by RabbitFly: 8/15/2018 8:13:16 AM
    Again. Not the version I have bee taught. The bet in question was between Loki and Eitri and Brokkr. He bet that they could not make something that was more beautiful than what the Sons of Ivaldi made for the gods. Now in this version it is true that the gods were the arbiters of the bet. In that they decided Eitri' and Brokkr's gift to be good enough. It is still Loki that enticed them to make gifts in the first place, by placing the bet.

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  • So the version I heard is... Thor’s wife, Sif, had long golden hair. Loki to cause some mischief cuts off her hair. Thor is rightly angry and tells Loki he’s going to kill him. Loki pleads with Thor and says he’ll get the dwarves to make Sif a wig of real gold hair that would grow like real hair. Loki goes to the dwarf Ivaldi and gets him to make the gold hair which he does, as well as the ship Skidbladnir and the spear Gungnir. Now Loki, being Loki decides to cause a little more mischief and he approaches the dwarf Brokk and bets his head that Sindri (Brokk’s brother) couldn’t create three objects of the same quality as Ivaldi’s creations. The bet is accepted. So Sindri gets his brother Brokk to blow into the bellows to provide the heat for the forge. At a crucial moment Loki turns into a fly and bites Brokk on his hand but Brokk doesn’t flinch. So out of the forge comes a boar whose mane and bristles where made of gold and he could run faster and longer than any horse, he was called Gullinborsti. The drawers then get to work on the next item and again Loki turns into a fly but this time he bites Brokk on the neck but again Brokk doesn’t react. The item that came out of the forge this time was Draupnir the golden arm ring which created eight copies of itself every ninth night. The dwarves set to work a third time and Sindri gave instruction to Brokk to be extra careful because this project was very sensitive. Loki again turns into a fly but this time bites Brokk on the eye lid causing blood to go into Brokk’s eye. Brokk leaves the bellows for only a second to wipe the blood from his eyes but them damage is done and the third gift is not perfect. So with gifts in hand the dwarves go to Asgard to have their gifts judged by the gods. Loki first presented the gifts Ivaldi created and then Sindri and Brokk presented their gifts. The dwarves presented the third gift to Thor, which was a hammer that always hit its mark and when thrown would return to his hand, it did however have one flaw, a small handle. The gods proclaimed Sindri and Brokk the winners which meant they could claim Loki’s head as a reward. Now Loki, ever the trickster, said to the dwarves that he only promised them his head which they could have if they kept his neck intact.

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  • Your missing the point. Loki is the catalyst for the creation of Eitri and Brokkr's gifts. They were not going to make them regardless and Loki just wanted to bet to prove his gifts to be superior. If he had not made the bet Mjolnir, Gullinborsti and Draupnir would never have been made. So while he tries to make Eitri and Brokkr fail at their task, it doesn't change the fact that he is the one that made them create those objects in the first place. The bet is first and foremost made to entice the dwarves to make the gifts. Not to prove that his gifts were better, that is how he intended to get away with it. Although he failed at that task.

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  • I wasn’t trying to make a point, I was just retelling the tale as I heard it.

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  • It just seemed to me that your original reply insinuated that Loki was not the catalyst as I claimed. The reason I prefaced my reply with "the way I was taught it" is because there isn't really any rule to which version of the nordic mythology stories that is more correct.

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  • I interpreted it as Loki being there to try to make the bet sway in his favour. Whilst yes he ultimately does loose the bet, I saw a similar idea of Loki and the vex as trying to interfere with the events.

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  • Well it would make sense if the player was supposed to substitute Eitri and Brokkr, but not Thor. I. e. Thor would never even have the hammer unless Loki made the bet in the first place. I don't know. It realy isn't important in the context of your post it just stood out to me. The story is part of Loki's importance within Nordic Mythology. He is basically the personification of a variable you cannot account for, which is a big deal for the gods in nordic mythology and he is also the catalyst for many, if not most, of the meaningful events that lead up to ragnarok, which also a big deal for the gods in nordic mythology. Him being the catalyst for the hammers creation is important in an ironic sense. Because while he is also supposedly the father of Fenris and Jörmungandr, both considered the bringers of ragnarok, he is also the mother of Sleipner and the reason for Mjölnir's creation. So I think the origin of the sunbreakers are kind of missing the point of the story. Though it is hard to do such a thing justice without the inclusion of loki himself

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  • Well. Unless we say that Oryx is Loki. We never would’ve gone after the power of the hammer of sol unless oryx wasn’t in the system.

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  • I guess one could do that, I mean we are talking nods and metaphors anyways, and it really doesn't matter. It just doesn't address the issue I put forth. I. e. If the players are supposed to be Thor, then Oryx being loki would only make sense if he crafted it and willingly gave it to you. Effectively giving you the means to his destruction. Because Thor was not aware of the hammer before Loki gave it to him as a gift after it's creation. Anyways. I am nitpicking and it really isn't that important. Sunbreakers standing as a nod to thor is fine by me. It really seems like an apt comparison. Not sure I agree with the subclass quest itself, but there might be a better reasoning to the quest also referencing the creation of mjolnir within it's lore. Something that would be out of my wheel house. Either way it is not a big deal.

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  • It’s just one of those things I guess.

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