Shouldn’t**

I agree. Things should have never gone in this direction to being with. You should have build off the first game. Hell, you should have continued to add to it like other MMO's and RPG's. Who ever came up with this carnival of tormented souls, shouldn't only be demoted but outright turned over to the community to give us solid answers for why they implemented any of this and why they thought a franchise was a better route to go than add to the original game foundation. Also, who the Hell asked for a MMORPGFPS to become another gross, Hellishly morbid joke of a COD clone? Plus, I'm well aware I sound salty, in fact; I have artic sea water in my veins over this. I want answers and I'd like them in a professional, timely and factual manner.

I think most of the community was under the impression that Destiny was more MMO/RPG and less fps competitive shooter. But apparently that's not what Bungie had in mind. They did not wholly embrace that part of the game. If so they would have built upon D1. They would have added things like a new class and subclasses. They would have expanded the subclass skill trees. There would be more weapon and armor variations. We'd have things like armor set bonuses and a complex mod system. Maybe an even deeper character creation and the ability to update your character changing their looks. Hell we'd still have sparrow racing and customizable sparrows. Just being able to change the shader doesn't count. Lost sector's would have been more like dungeons with unique bosses and loot. Instead of using patrol beacons there would have been more NPCs handing out quests. For example you'd come across a village out beyond the tower and the city in the wild. Perhaps there has been a local fallen archon terrorizing them. It'd be your job to take him out and receive some specific loot unique to that adventure. Factions would actually matter. In D1 they were toying with some ideas. Like how each set of faction armor had perks geared toward increasing certain attributes. Faction leaders could hand out quests for adventures. Maybe Dead Orbit needed you to scout other worlds where they could possibly settle. Maybe future war cult wants to test their time machine on you. Maybe new monarchy wants you to be the next speaker because you represent them. I could keep going on. There's so many cool possibilities here. But it seems Bungie is being short sighted and has tunnel vision. Perhaps they didn't want to venture to far away from the Halo formula. Maybe this was their plan all along. Create a FPS with light RPG MMO elements that has a new iteration every few years. There's a disconnect between what we thought we were getting and what they were planning on for sure.

This direction is costing them dearly. Nobody wanted this poor excuse for a Halo/COD clone. If anyone wants to play those games, they already exist and are much better at the FPS genera then Destiny. This is the part that upsets me the most...how is it that an entire community can see the problem here but Bungie's entire board of leads and directors can't or won't, this started off Rocky but ended well enough to build on. Let me get to my point and I'll come back to all of that later. The problem with Bungie and Destiny isn't some identity crisis, shuffling of staff or misappropriation of assets. It's Ego, narcissistic individuals that want to leave their mark on the gaming community in some fashion. Too many people making unnecessary, unwanted and just straight awful decisions, then in the most half-assed ways possible, they attempted to justify these poor decisions by telling the community, their actual investors; "Ooops, we misunderstood what you meant... we're listening to your feedback and we'll do something in the coming months." I have a degree in psychology, with specialties in human behavior, social sciences, a degree in forensics and in Criminal Justice. Plus, I have 7 years in Law Enforcement and another 4 years of military experience in the Air Force as a cop. So, when I read these Bungie posts, watch their podcast and interviews...most of the time, they're reaching for anything to say, none of them like begin confronted directly and most of the time, they're straight up lying to us, the community, the consumers and the actual investors.

[quote]This direction is costing them dearly. Nobody wanted this poor excuse for a Halo/COD clone. If anyone wants to play those games, they already exist and are much better at the FPS genera then Destiny. This is the part that upsets me the most...how is it that an entire community can see the problem here but Bungie's entire board of leads and directors can't or won't, this started off Rocky but ended well enough to build on. Let me get to my point and I'll come back to all of that later. The problem with Bungie and Destiny isn't some identity crisis, shuffling of staff or misappropriation of assets. It's Ego, narcissistic individuals that want to leave their mark on the gaming community in some fashion. Too many people making unnecessary, unwanted and just straight awful decisions, then in the most half-assed ways possible, they attempted to justify these poor decisions by telling the community, their actual investors; "Ooops, we misunderstood what you meant... we're listening to your feedback and we'll do something in the coming months." I have a degree in psychology, with specialties in human behavior, social sciences, a degree in forensics and in Criminal Justice. Plus, I have 7 years in Law Enforcement and another 4 years of military experience in the Air Force as a cop. So, when I read these Bungie posts, watch their podcast and interviews...most of the time, they're reaching for anything to say, none of them like begin confronted directly and most of the time, they're straight up lying to us, the community, the consumers and the actual investors.[/quote] I don't think you would need the types of certifications and degrees you have to be able to tell that dudes like this Luke Smith character are almost borderline sociopaths. Dudes like him that are in elevated positions are typically ego centric. They have the feeling & sense of "power" and "untouchability" because of the positions they have. The clout that comes with the position. The funny part is that individuals like him equate the amount of money they make to their own self worth and this is a demonstration of a weak and unreliable character trait. I consider it a red flag because these are untrustworthy traits in relation to the stated beliefs as well. These types of individuals are typically prone to deception. To make matters worse, they're also childish in how they deal with people. Lukes people skills can't even be considered quality enough for the position he's in yet people above his pay grade keep hiring individuals like Luke because of this. Hiring managers have this misconception that individuals lacking people skills, but have high technical skills, are risk worthy due to the hiring management's blind stereotyping and belief that those with tech skills are nerdy, pocket protector brandishing, triple thick glasses wearing geniuses that don't have many meaningful personal relationships. This train of thought is mostly prevalent in the software industry and it's cancerous to everyone involved be it employee or consumer. As for Luke himself? After reading some statements of his, being exposed to some things he's said on social media and his handling of the situation, it's apparent that he has no intention of delivering on the wishes of the paying and gaming community. This is either because: [b]1[/b]. He is the honey badger (doesn't give a shit) [b]2[/b]. He's being pressured not only from top brass but the consumers and he's unable to effectively deal with that pressure (incapable of working well under pressure) [b]3[/b]. His passions about the project he oversees were completely destroyed or non-existent (thus the honey badger) [b]4[/b]. He is narcissistic [b]5[/b]. He's making creation decisions that are centrally geared for monetization [i]Or[/i] [b]6[/b]. He's mentally unstable (I doubt this) [b]7[/b]. He feels the need to exert his creative control by deliberately ignoring or patronizing the community Personally, I think he's a condescending, narcissist that is unable to work in high pressure environments who probably wants to like what he's doing (in terms of his current protect) but doesn't. Not to mention, he's probably tasked with creating content with the focus of increasing revenue. And all of this clearly shows. Let's not forget that [u]Activision is[/u] basically doing what EA is doing in terms of [u]attempting to monetize gamers by introducing micro-gambling[/u] as their main and first objective. Being under that kind of influence is bound to change any person [u]or[/u] affect how they produce.

All of what you said above is very true. Anyone with common sense is able to see through his narcissistic, greedy, half-assed, ego-maniacal, manipulative tactics. I listened my experience so individuals had a reference for my prospective. I try very hard to post exactly what I mean and I won't hesitate to except another person's prospective or opinion, as long as they have a constructive and reasonable way of working it. I get that people are angry and upset, amongst other things. Let me digress, so in response to your post, I completely agree with your analysis and I would like to add to it with my own prospective and observation of not just Mr. Smith but all of the other individuals in this particular entertainment category. 1. Individuals in other corporate facets have far too much Bureaucracy and regulation to make the maximum amount of profit earned for the littlest amount of income spent. In the case of the Gaming industry, there are two entities that self govern and self regulate the ENTIRE medium of entertainment, which gives these crooks a Hell of a lot of leeway to basically charge what they deem reasonable for their level of expertise. 2. The actual price for this form of entertainment is way over priced for the the level of effort put in and these individuals know this. Yes, it takes a level of experience, education, creativity and ingenuity to create digital worlds we play in. However, in most cases what we pay for is an insult to the gaming community. Example; you wouldn't pay full price for half a car and be told if you pay extra, you'll get the whole thing. If any salesman tried that, they'd be told numerous, ugly and colorful things and would most likely go out of business for this practice and most likely end up bankrupt. In this community, as Gamers, we've slowly but surely allowed this kind of greedy tactic to become common place. We pay MORE than full price for a game that more time than not, aren't complete. Full of bugs, glitches, wholes in code, sometimes game breaking errors and other times, content that has been purposely removed from a fully developed game so it can be sold back to us in a later DLCs, expansions or GOTY editions. All of this for sheer greedy intent. 3. This should go without saying but the artist's creative ego. They feel as though their creativity and ingenious way of expressing that talent is some how worth the exorbitant and copious amounts of money they charge for their genius. To be honest, it isn't. The amount of training, education and time it takes to code a game engine has been proven time and time again that anyone with time, patience, a little talent and creativity are capable of creating a full Indy titles in hours with one creator doing all the work. So, as far as the effort put in and the resources used, they are highwaymen charging a highwaymen's fee for something a team made? No, it for the entitlement of the "creative minds", a very small group of ego-maniacal, narcissistic sociopathic, boarder line personalty manic-depressives with underlying issues to being the prey for the socially inept bullies they faced in their adolescence. So, they take their misplaced aggression out on the people that support them and are the actual investors in their product. I could go on here but the longer I talk about this, the more depressed I become. This development team and this game alone have wasted their opportunity for a master piece, the new Bungie's Magnum Opus on ego and greed.

[quote]All of what you said above is very true. Anyone with common sense is able to see through his narcissistic, greedy, half-assed, ego-maniacal, manipulative tactics. I listened my experience so individuals had a reference for my prospective. I try very hard to post exactly what I mean and I won't hesitate to except another person's prospective or opinion, as long as they have a constructive and reasonable way of working it. I get that people are angry and upset, amongst other things. Let me digress, so in response to your post, I completely agree with your analysis and I would like to add to it with my own prospective and observation of not just Mr. Smith but all of the other individuals in this particular entertainment category. 1. Individuals in other corporate facets have far too much Bureaucracy and regulation to make the maximum amount of profit earned for the littlest amount of income spent. In the case of the Gaming industry, there are two entities that self govern and self regulate the ENTIRE medium of entertainment, which gives these crooks a Hell of a lot of leeway to basically charge what they deem reasonable for their level of expertise. 2. The actual price for this form of entertainment is way over priced for the the level of effort put in and these individuals know this. Yes, it takes a level of experience, education, creativity and ingenuity to create digital worlds we play in. However, in most cases what we pay for is an insult to the gaming community. Example; you wouldn't pay full price for half a car and be told if you pay extra, you'll get the whole thing. If any salesman tried that, they'd be told numerous, ugly and colorful things and would most likely go out of business for this practice and most likely end up bankrupt. In this community, as Gamers, we've slowly but surely allowed this kind of greedy tactic to become common place. We pay MORE than full price for a game that more time than not, aren't complete. Full of bugs, glitches, wholes in code, sometimes game breaking errors and other times, content that has been purposely removed from a fully developed game so it can be sold back to us in a later DLCs, expansions or GOTY editions. All of this for sheer greedy intent. 3. This should go without saying but the artist's creative ego. They feel as though their creativity and ingenious way of expressing that talent is some how worth the exorbitant and copious amounts of money they charge for their genius. To be honest, it isn't. The amount of training, education and time it takes to code a game engine has been proven time and time again that anyone with time, patience, a little talent and creativity are capable of creating a full Indy titles in hours with one creator doing all the work. So, as far as the effort put in and the resources used, they are highwaymen charging a highwaymen's fee for something a team made? No, it for the entitlement of the "creative minds", a very small group of ego-maniacal, narcissistic sociopathic, boarder line personalty manic-depressives with underlying issues to being the prey for the socially inept bullies they faced in their adolescence. So, they take their misplaced aggression out on the people that support them and are the actual investors in their product. I could go on here but the longer I talk about this, the more depressed I become. This development team and this game alone have wasted their opportunity for a master piece, the new Bungie's Magnum Opus on ego and greed.[/quote] I don't believe what I said about individuals, such as Luke Smith, as truth as much as I recognize typical patterns in their behaviour. Not to mention, if anyone has seen his responses to Twitter questions prior to destiny 2 release you can obviously see his condescending nature. He even goes on to imply questioning a persons user name by making unnecessary remarks in what should be a video about providing relevant game info. He also addresses some of the questions or feedback as if the people making the comments are less intelligent. It's not specifically about [i]what[/i] he says but his [i]body language[/i] that reflects his attitude. The comments he makes only fuels these facts. You can watch it here below: [url=http://www.example.com]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6C26qHS5qnQ[/url] Also, the interview the had with Eurogamer also helps solidify the point. You can read parts of it below: [url=http://www.example.com]http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-22-destiny-the-taken-king-director-defends-40-expansion-price-tag [/url] As far as cooperate overreach, it's becoming pervasive. It's to the point where people are [u]frequently[/u] vocally expressing their dissatisfaction but aren't actually taking the correct action to limit the practice. One of the best ways to take action is by exposing the practices publicly and notate the incident in question (maintain a track record) to check the companies future attempts up take advantage of their consumers. A great example was the experience throttling revelation. Someone noticed something was odd about experience gain, crunched the numbers and presented the data publicly to others, including Bungie, for debate. If no one made the discovery, the throttling practice would have continued. If we, as individuals and as a group, can disagree while proving or providing subjective data that incriminates the unjust actions of a corporation, results will be driven in favor of the consumer. And this will be regardless of what expertise any individual has in relation to their role with the corporation. It's not just gamers that enabled price gouging. The people playing games that involve micro-gambling are of various demographics. Children that play this game may successfully solicit their parents OR have free access to their parents eWallets. Teenagers may have saved money or even have jobs that allow them to make purchases. Of course, young adults and older have direct purchasing power and decision making. In my opinion, all brand new games are viciously overpriced. This is probably the first game I bought at release price in 10 years. I'm very patient in waiting 1-2 years to buy a game I want but most people aren't that patient. Impulse purchases can be controlled by the individual. However, if a person is going to spend so much money on a game like this, it'd better be polished, have clear developmental direction, had internal play testing prior to release & and better be awe inspiring. When you think about it, $60 was actually donated to all involved in the games creation in exchange for an expected engaging experience. If the game falls flat or is grossly unattractive, that $60 could have been used on something else with much greater return on investment. And I've already summed up people like Luke Smith.. What we need to do is avoid the trap of saying things like "Bungie sucks", "fire (Insert name here) because they killed the game", or "I hate this game". It's good that individuals express their dissatisfaction and disappointment regarding something they bought. A critically constructive analysis of the situation supported by examples or data will bring what you want closer to reality. And it can't be something like "this game sucks because (Insert name here) is working on it". Let it be "This game is grossly disappointing because I expected to be in the middle of character progression at this point in time. Unfortunately, I've competed virtually every end game objective this game provided in the beginning of January and I competed this at such a rapid rate that I'm reminded of my disappointment from that fact." They (the developers) need more text walls that underscore the problem you have with the game without resorting to emotionally charged and blatantly enraged insults. [b][u]Critique[/u][/b] is your greatest weapon. Wield it with solar arcing void precision.

You are right, they should have picked up from where they left off. But as I stated in my thread. Them scrapping D2 and starting over pushing out what you see now was the problem. Now instead of moving forward after going on 4 years. This company is right back where the left off from D1 vanilla but with 85% of the game ripped out. Only a shell was offered. It's sad to know this company is so mismanaged and has leads that should have never been leads among other things. That it explains why this game is a huge mess. How can this game ever really go anywhere when the company alone is a huge mess?

I would like to first express my apologies for my lethal levels of sodium and vitriol in my comment earlier. I'm very passionate about this franchise. The first Destiny got me through my contract ending with the Air Force and my divorce that same year. So, that being said, D1 was my outlet and still is. I'd also like to say, you post was well thought out and informative. I would recommend and highly encourage others to read it. Now, to answer your question in regards to any other paths to take in order to fix this train wreck of a game. At this point there are only a few constructive ways to move forward in this manner. The first is the most likely to occur, they will continue to release the minimal amount of fixes and changes to keep what's left of the player base playing and hold major game changing fixes and updates for DLC releases or make the community pay for them as they come out. Second, which would only be implemented if the entire player base stopped playing tomorrow and they stopped receiving anymore money from Eververse purchases; they would have to shut servers down and take the game offline and do a complete overhaul to the core mechanics to give us what we wanted and expect from a Destiny sequel in the first place. (Since they allowed themselves to be completely backed in to a corner with a franchise contract! -_-) Last one that I'll add for now since this is getting a bit lengthy. They would have to change their contract legally in order to not default and lose their rights and all assets tied to this IP. Go free-to-play and use reasonable micro-transaction practices to fund future updates and content like Warframe or how Evolve was forced to do from the massive backlash and players abandoning the game shortly after it released or make it a true blue MMORPG like Warframe, Black Desert Online, World of Warcraft where they have one release and add on to it with patches, hot fixes, updates and major DLC's. The only way any of these would work in any way, shape or form is if we, the community, stand together and tell them this is what we want. Petition the changes we want, voice them as load, as numerous as we can. Not unlike what the community did with the #removeeververse posts during The Dawning. I hope that we can continue this thread and conversation going for as long as there are Guardians that want THEIR franchise back and are will in to stand their ground.

Ahem, its a timed event. We do need more content, but every game has a holiday event with special features. Maybe it wont be gone in private matches. SRL came back in D1.

You are right about the holiday events, but if you look how other companies put a lot more effort into there game making these event. It makes some wonder WTH is going on with this billion dollar franchise.

Well one, they are putting more effort into fixing thier game first. Holiday events right now are not what they should be. Im ok with that if it means getting a fixed game later, which hopefully they do in March 27

Honestly they will hype up the changes with the dlc in September so we will buy the fixed product. This is what the taken king was and costed I believe 40 bucks in Canada I will not pay to have them fix a game I already bought once including a season pass .full cost here was $139.00 I won't ever buy another bungie product until the 3rd year after release if bungie games are this lackluster

I don’t think you understand how much the taken king (aka the comet) affected the destiny player base. It brought so many people into this community and made so many huge changes to the game. I would say D1 was in the same position as D2 currently is, but there was a lot more grindable things in D1 for us to do in the meantime while D2 does not. If the comet equivalent expansion for D2 is even remotely as big as the Taken King it will make big fundamental changes to the game.

U dont need any expansion to play these events.

Not being rude or anything like that, but knowing that is how D1 events were if you only had the base game. Can you show me where it says you don't have to have the expansion or anything like that?

Read TWAB about Crimson Days. You had to be LV 20 to access crimson days if you didn’t own the DLC or LV 25 if you did own the DLC. Everyone had access to the Dawning as well. Everyone had access to live events in D1 also if you didn’t own the DLC idk where u got that info from.