[quote]I'll have to say though, I never liked Random Rolls or the Grimoire personally. I mostly played Destiny 1 because Bungie's always been very skilled at making an enjoyable core game shooter. Pvp and Pve was fun to do with friends, and there were cool events to partake in. Even Destiny 1 though felt very shallow in its existence. We were originally sold on it being a shooter MMORPG, and that's kind of what I signed up for. What we got was like... basically a frontend page with some quickplay options that hit content playlists. Not exactly close to the same. It's like the seeds were there, but never bloomed. In Destiny 2, I know I wanted to see them take Destiny 1 as a baseline, and expand out with all those missing and promised features when the first game floundered. Instead it seems they actually stripped elements OUT of the first game, and provided something much more akin to a FTP android phone game that was playing at it being an MMO lite.[/quote] It’s fine if you didn’t like them, however that’s pretty much the foundation of an MMO, gear rolls and lore. That’s what this game was an MMO lite version, because even at its most grindy point it was still never as time consuming as a real mmo. That’s what I don’t like about people’s arguments that it was too hard to get rolls or the game didn’t “respect their time”. Ok cool. There’s way more grindy games out there WoW, ESO, etc. We aren’t torching the devs over there to make the game more casual. Like if ppl didn’t like the mmo aspect of destiny it sounds like they should play halo. 5 is actually very good. The point is most gamers don’t go into a community and demand the game be catered toward them. That’s what happened between 1 and 2. Now the fans of the first game are asking for it back. Because that’s what we were promised and what we signed up for and what we played thousands over hours for. We didn’t play the FPS RPG MMO(lite) to have it hijacked by a bunch of whiney people that said it was too hard. Could bungie have just made the road more clear than they did in D1, sure. And you know what they did. You get legendary and exotic gear during the campaign and see your power level creep in addition to your level. This already fixed the main complaint of “casuals” in the first game. A convoluted leveling system, ppl didn’t know what you did after 20 in vanilla. So why go the extra 12 steps of removing random rolls, gear perks, weapon progression, 6v6, picking playlists, weapon system, etc? There was none. Again in bungie fashion the nerf hammer was swung overboard again. Just making the game friendly in the beginning should’ve been enough. Instead the franchise that was promised to be this shared world shooter, all about loot and hard raids was turned into “friendship” and tokens. D1 got some flack but it’s loyal base stayed with it. Now they have alienated most of these players. That’s why the backlash this time is so much worse. Vanilla is was “ppl still play this game?” The answer was yes. Now it’s “this game is trash”. And it can’t even be denied. They front loaded a pretty game and once you reach the “end” you see right through it. This is a problem because who does this leave left? Most casuals play the game and move on right? The old former hardcore left? So now all that’s left is a smaller new wave of hardcore? Why not have just kept the old hardcore and new ones to be added on top of that? Now destiny shares and FPS space with games like battlefield, battlefront, halo, Titanfall, rainbow 6, cod. Destiny one was drastically different from these games being the only space magic power fantasy fps. Now it’s akin to halo, but much less fun. Now these other shooters are still a little different from destiny, but they are mostly more fun than destiny now. Abilities and supers were nerfed into oblivion. Movement speed as well and ttk. This is what put Destiny as the only game in its niche and why it was so popular to play and watch for 3 years. Destiny is just not as fun anymore. In one fell swoop pvp and Pve were nerfed and it shows by the amount of people leaving and the biggest fans questioning the studio(fireteam chat, forums, reddit, almost every youtuber/streamer). I was optimistic on the changes to loot and weapons and crucible. I tried it plenty, 160 hours. I found out optimism doesn’t make a good game. It was an okay try, but this isn’t the game we were promised back in 2013, not even close.