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11/4/2017 7:19:43 PM
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Banned for being a programmer

So remember like, less than a week ago, when people said they were getting banned for no good reason and Bungie responded that wasn't the case. That every ban was vetted and reviewed manually and that bans weren't being handed out just willy-nilly? I guess I'm the exception. I'd been enjoying Destiny 2 on Xbox One before the PC release, which I immediately switched to and also enjoyed... until today when I tried to login and had been notified that my account was banned. Not suspended, banned. No further explanation, just a an oblique reference to bungie.net/bans. I read through all of the infractions that result in a ban, none of them apply to me. I'm a programmer for another triple-A video game developer, so I have software on my machine like a kernel debugger, which I use for work. I mention this because the existence of such software on my computer is the only possible thing I can think of that would even remotely get my account flagged. I have not, and would not, ever use such software on a game other than one I am developing. I don't use cheats or hacks or exploits. I believed Bungie when they said bans were for legit infractions and were reviewed by hand, and that no one should be worried about getting the boot for a bogus reason. I've got a ticket open, hopefully their customer service department has the sense to restore my account, or at the very least give me some explanation for why my account was banned in the first place. So just be warned, I guess. It happened to me, it can happen to you.
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#Help #pcsupport

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  • "Progamer" hahahha STOP CHEATING!

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    • Just curious why you wouldn't have separate machines for work and personal use.

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      • Nah I would ban you in a heartbeat First for using work computer for playing games 2nd for only using debugging software on your "play" computer I am honestly surprised your existing company did not walk u you out the door

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        • You're in the industry. You should know better.

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          • Edited by Swixel: 11/4/2017 10:41:45 PM
            tl;dr: I doubt it's just "I had stuff open", I suspect it's more likely people are reporting players and Bungie are reviewing, potentially misinterpreting certain applications, and then issuing the bans. If it were automatic I'd have been banned in the first week. --- I'm putting this here because it might help for context. I haven't been banned (I closed my latest session before starting to write this reply), and my system is loaded down heavily with programming, debugging, and reverse engineering software. I need this software for work related reasons, so removing them is a no-go. I gave myself a quick read-through of the FAQs before I started, and things seem to be okay. I suspect there's more going on here than just "I had things open", because I've played a fair amount of Destiny 2 with mates, and alt-tabbed, written some code (with Visual Studio 2017 open), and even left a suspended process attached to windbg, VS2017's debugger, or other debuggers. Sometimes they need to go AFK for a few minutes (or more), so being able to do this is great (though these days it's usually Rust or Go, so it's VS Code, which is lighter, but that isn't so much the point beside it not being an IDE). I've even had terminal sessions open to other systems, and a VM running Kali Linux actively hammering a networked node as part of extended fuzzing. (The terminal sessions are relevant because they were moving a lot of encrypted data, albeit over LANs, and in two cases, a corporate VPN.) The big difference here I think is the community. I avoid PvP unless it's to get my crucible progress for the week. Most of the time my PvP games are atrocious: people warp, don't take hits, but somehow hit me (complaints further on this really belong elsewhere, so I won't drone on). My connection is fairly standard for where I am (which is to say I maintain 900-1000 kbps upload), which is more than sufficient to meet the minimum 5kbps per-other-player to not look like I'm skipping around. I've even monitored people using a second monitor (running on the Intel GPU) which displays NetLimiter (blocking, limiting, and priorities disabled), and it seems to be fairly standard where I am to have 5-10kbps being the range of transfer (I don't manipulate it, I just notice/watch it). As a result, despite my very occasional domination of opposition, I seriously doubt I'm being reported for cheating or bad network connections. However, I do report people who have a bad connection (usually benefit of the doubt, though when it's clear they're manipulating because the graph display shows spikes that are irregular and match their number of kills, it goes to network manipulation so Bungie can investigate that). I do not grief, or mess around with, anyone who isn't on my fireteam. This isn't to say I do it to/with them either, but rather, if we're mucking around with emotes, or seeing "what would happen if", we do it with consent of one another. Again, there'd be no evidence of that, and it's hugely unlikely I'd have eaten a report. Save for Day 1, I haven't launched Battle.net (and thus Destiny 2) as administrator. I am painfully aware of [url=https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/24075]the Battle.net policy of requiring administrator rights[/url], but, as long as you don't have Destiny 2 (or other Battle.net games) inside a folder which is restricted, you can get away with ignoring it (save for initial firewall nonsense for Destiny 2 on launch day, which was super weird). I have experienced network issues. A lot of network issues. I've gotten too familiar with various error codes (the recent one being baboon since the patch), where at certain times (typically as certain regions are likely to come online), I get punted back to orbit or I'm forced to reload into strikes. However, and perhaps to my own fortune, this has only been in PvE; if it happened in PvP I'd likely leave (I don't play competitive unless a quest requires it of me, so my team can pick up new members if I leave, and they'd have a disadvantage if I stayed). All of this said, I've never had anything inject into the game, nor have I run anything that could. Nothing runs as administrator that shouldn't, and I keep my system patched (it's Windows 10 and I let it update constantly). Regardless, I suspect the bigger issue is user reports. So I have the following two questions for those who are posting as programmers or developers, as I assume you're going to understand my logic/reasoning: - Has your internet connection had issues that could cause false positives for network related cheating (bad links to other players, either due to your own equipment (including software firewalls), or due to your ISP)? - Have you been in a situation where players are likely to have reported you for anything that is remotely ban worthy? --- For Bungie, and my own thoughts, I'd like to ask if it's possible to at least give a category(s) and/or number of reports issued against the user when they get banned. I know that most anti-cheat setups are designed not to give the information away (so that people making cheats can't just sidestep it), but at least knowing you got X reports (particularly if you were told which modes (Cruc:QP, Cruc:Comp, Trials, Raid:Lev, etc.)), it might give you some idea as to what it is you're meant to have done. As it stands I'd imagine that if the bans continue at this rate it's probably going to land in class action territory in certain countries. Being uneffected, despite running a lot of background software (which doesn't interfere), makes me suspect the community element. I hope that some/any of this helps certain people, even if it's just about writing reports/tickets and requesting information. Please be sure to ask Bungie if it was user reports, or automated, because if it was automated despite their assurance the bans are manual, it means there's a problem in their manual system.

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            • I’m curious why Cozmo hasn’t replied to this post especially after you were quoted in a kotaku story about improper bans.

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            • Oh, and just so you know, lots of their PC bans were automatic. They claim they weren't, but some of the people banned on launch day hadn't even made it past the login screen. There isn't enough time to investigate any of those players and then hand out multiple bans. There wouldn't be enough time even if they sat there monitoring everything, and there is no way Bungie would even do that. The levels Bungie go to in order to avoid admitting something went wrong and they made a mistake is beyond ridiculous.

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            • Edited by slyvance75: 11/7/2017 10:28:18 PM
              Another update from [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237891797?sort=0&page=0&path=1t]Cozmo[/url] on the issue. So despite not telling us that that would be the case, we are all screwed for having any kind of cheating program running at the same time as destiny 2

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            • Sorry about the ban. I must say I have no clue how you work on a computer most of the day then still want to play games on it. I'm a developer too, but now I mostly do high level design now, and meetings...lost of meeting. Still, when I get home I can't even look at my rig. It's console, beer, and my legs up when I game. Best of luck getting this fixed. I feel like we need a team of developers to kick ass.

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            • #bumpup Refer to that guys. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237803917?sort=0&page=0 We got -blam!-ed, Bungie will pay. [b]JUSTICE WILL PREVAIL[/b]

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            • Game developer here too, (level designer) Banned as well, no explanations, no reasons I see on my side. Just so you know you're not the only one.

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            • @Cozmo, so you reviewed the ban you handed out to @Iritus, a developer on the amazing Borderlands series of games, and confirmed he was hacking multiple times? I have to say, I'm inclined to believe Iritus when he says he wasn't hacking and didn't do anything to harm Destiny 2.

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            • 8
              InstinctXIV
              InstinctXIV

              Extorted my Bungie - old

              I wouldn't mind getting in a class action lawsuit against these -blam!-ing scumbags.

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              • I think a MAJOR thing no one is talking about with these bans is that is really sounds like D2 on the PC is scanning/spying everything on your computer and then sending that information back to Bungie. Is no one concerned about this?

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                • Join in here and spread your story. Banning needs to be better monitored. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237799047

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                • Same here. Software engineer. Suite of debuggers installed on my machine. Also banned. Furious. I've been trying to convince friends to play, but it's pretty hard to be like "Hey, you should play this game I'm banned from".

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                  • So what you're saying is... you can't play Destiny 2 or work on the same PC. Gold. Good job, Bungo.

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                  • Whats your motherboard?

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                    • Tweet at them and news outlets, Get the word out everywhere. Dont let this stand!

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                    • @iritus Did a hardware survey for random ban people - would like to have actual-programmer not-hobby-programmer eyes on it. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237634674?sort=0&page=0 Also noticing strong trends towards certain hardware, but, it's very popular hardware, so that *might* not be the cause, but, for example, every random ban person that's posted so far is NVidia graphics, all but one are 10xx series.

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                      • https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237734958?sort=0&page=0 just read it over may be some help for you

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                      • Edited by slyvance75: 11/5/2017 10:43:34 PM
                        As an update to anyone who missed it, [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forums/Post/237680204?sort=0&page=0&path=1]this was cozmo's response to this ban wave[/url] I would say it might be a good idea to tweet at him or reply to that post as he is ther community manager and he's doing a pretty poor job of managing the community

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                      • Everyone getting false banned needs to say something on twitter, make this bull crap public

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                        • I for one am tweeting @BungieHelp, Deej and Cozmo once a day until I get a response. If hundreds of us do the same, they'll be forced to make a response.

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                        • 4
                          InstinctXIV
                          InstinctXIV

                          Extorted my Bungie - old

                          They say there was never a problem but they forgot about that https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/46426

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                        • So why not just get another pc for personal use?

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