He can always watch it ya know lol no difference.

Yeah like playing football and watching football? I get it. Some people I tell ya

I dunno. When debating if a player should be able to make a play then an observer with no experience isn’t very qualified. Any observer who has played but doesn’t any longer can. Strategy judgments don’t require experience just observations. So when it comes to observation vs experience, it isn’t flat across the board. That’s where you flubbed this. Someone familiar with D1 doesn’t need to play D2 to understand the changes. Manipulating a controller didn’t give you insight to fixed stats. Doesn’t change team shooting you see on YouTube. Actually playing the game only affects how you judge how the game “feels” during gameplay based on the controller. Judgements like is it clunky or smooth, how do weapons perform etc. Every other aspect about gaming can be judged by observation. Your comparison was a poor one. Try again.

For saying that entertainment through playing can be judged through someone watching a few youtube videos makes no sense at all. Thats as stupid as saying jumping out of a plane, and watching travis pastrana doing it are the same thing. You dont get the full experience through watching the game, and i can guarentee that this guy hasn't even watched most of it. If this was the case, nobody would buy the games, they would just watch them on twitch. If you haven't actually played the game, you will hardly remember anything from the game as you have just watched parts of it online. It doesn't matter if the -blam!- played destiny 1 or not, because whether you like it or not, its a different game. Just because it follows similar design, doesn't allow this guy to have an opinion or not on the game. Especially when you are known in the community for being 100% against bungie no matter what, which is why several people in here have spoke about muting him years ago, and i also the same reason why i commented on one of his posts about a month ago telling him to stop coming on the forums everyday to argue with people and bitch 24/7, as i used to do it and it started taking over my life. Im 90% sure this guy spends his whole day bitching on these forums for a game he doesnt even own, so why the -blam!- would i(or anyone) ever want to listen to anything he says when he doesnt even have experience of the game he wants to talk about. Original destiny experience means nothing when they have changed almost everything about the game, thats what most of the discussions are about. Your attempt at explaining was poor and not really thought through. Try again.

Okay for one you limited what I speaking about to just entertainment value. Completely ignoring all other aspects of the game that an observer can see and judge especially when they are familiar with the franchise. You did that because that’s the only angle you can play. You don’t have to play to know the fixed stats and perks, changes in abilities, changes in matchmaking just aren’t good. You can see how the game plays and since you know how it plays you can get a fair impression. I don’t know this guy and don’t care that you people don’t like it. Saying that because he doesn’t play he can’t judge at all is a pathetically weak attempt to avoid refuting his criticism. You only do that when you can’t actually counter the issues being raised. You should try period son, before stepping up. Also people only remember some parts of gameplay they watch? You know this guy doesn’t watch any vids? Talking out of your pie hole son. Just stop

Lmao, you’re one of these mental geezers who think using grammar on a gaming forum makes them superior to everyone else. I’m not going to take an opinion of a product from someone who hasn’t used it, this is what causes bandwagons. I’ve played a lot of call of duty games, however I never bought the latest game, so arent going to review it. I didn’t like the look of it, however I won’t start making daily forum posts requesting staff changes and just spouting utter hatred over the forums with each post I decide to create. When people who see sequels they don’t like the look of give constructive criticism, such as “I feel as if static rolls aren’t the way forward, it takes away replay ability from the game, I wold prefer to go back to the old system”, it can be respected. However, saying things like “Can this game get anymore of a mess.”,With no actual suggestions or ideas on how to improve, why should he get any attention? Now we have you trying to belittle people and make yourself sound much smarter than everyone while trying to defend him? HA.HA.

Dunno why you think my being long winded is some sort of superiority complex. Sounds like you are suffering from some sort of inferiority complex. That’s your problem buddy. So someone who hasn’t played the game can make an opinion you’d approve of only if done so in a way you personally approve of. Playing the is wholly irrelevant, just someone’s manners is what makes or breaks a valid opinion. Wow. Someone was dropped on their head as a small child.

So you’re saying that this guy who has attacked members of the dev team on the forums has manners? Interesting...

Again where did I say that? No where. You said someone who hasn’t played the game could make an acceptable opinion. Your example on right and wrong was based on manners and being constructive. I pointed out that the criticism itself can be constructive. Criticism on static rolls don’t need embellishing, it speaks for itself. Which just leaves manners. How or why that would matter is beyond me but then again that’s probably why I didn’t say it. So what did I say? Based on your model of acceptable va unacceptable the only thing he is lacking to make his opinion valid, on your terms, is manners. All your showed was personal bias against him and his crap posting. You made two silly stipulations because you thought since he lacks those I wouldn’t be able to counter you. That’s what happens when you let your personal distaste and arrogance cloud your critical thinking. Leave yourself wide open for the KO. Like I said, you should at least try. This is a cakewalk. 😎

It’s -blam!-ing hilarious how hard you are trying to sound as smart as possible, settle pettle.

It’s amusing how you are avoiding making a counter argument. Being good at debating only requires come creative word play and a little knowledge about the subject. You can try for petty insults but that just means you are giving up the debate. So go ahead and roll over belly up and submit. Don’t worry. You aren’t the first. Won’t be the last.

I’m not trying to have a full blown debate with you, you are some smart gimp who feels the need to get extremely defensive about subjects that don’t even mean a lot. This guy hasn’t experienced the full game, no matter who literate you think you are. He sits on these forums all day everyday and just slates members of the dev team trying to get as much attention as possible. You then come in defending him as if your life depends on it, when it’s not even necessary. This guy has only seen a small part of the game, so he is not entitled to abuse the -blam!- out of the dev team as if he knows what he’s talking about. -blam!- your gimpy wordplay and debating tactics, this is a casual gaming forum. Look at the facts.

Yet you keep replying so how should I take that? It’s voluntary isn’t it? Lol so obviously you do want to debate. You just do it badly compared to me. Well first I’m not smart now I am? Gimp? Like BDSM gimp? You watch too much Pulp Fiction. Of course he hasn’t experience the full game lol. But how are you quantifying how much he has seen? Do you spy on him? You clearly stalk him on the forums... Abusing the dev team? Cry me a river. They have to read it to even have the chance to feel “abused” and considering the lack of response to really good posts why would they feed the troll? You must a steely hardon for Bungie. Literate? We all are literate, I’ll not chastise for the who instead of how. Maybe you meant clever or sharp witted instead. I didn’t defend his opinion at all. Merely the method he used to form it. That you keep focusing on him and his behavior instead of the point is disturbing. Maybe you have the hardon for him... As for this being a casual forum is a fact....are you serious? Where and how is this a fact? There some fine print I missed somewhere? I feel like I’m talking to a teenager. Waste of time.

If its such a waste of time, why do you keep jacking off to the thesaurus while replying to as many people as possible in a way that belittles them in every way possible? Regarding the how and why comment, it’s a thing where I’m from, like how Canadians say eh all the time... you know what I mean? Obviously you weren’t expected to know that but figured I should tell you before I get called illiterate. Same goes for me calling you a gimp, just an insult used here usually associated with people who are just weird. Like how hard you are trying to sound smart by including as many complex words as possible. As for the hardon for Bungie, it’s not much of a hardon but more of a “it’s not fair to make comments asking for employees to lose their job because your first opinion of a game you don’t own isn’t that great”. It’s not fair and doesn’t solve anything. Next up, your point regarding me spying on him. People who have completed everything a game has to offer tend to have hundreds of hours in the game. Now, you are right, I don’t know if he has watched a streamer this long. However, the odds of this guy watching a streamer 24 hours a day 7 days a week to find out all the game has to offer is extremely unlikely. Finally, Bungie.net is notorious for being a casual forum filled with people who will moan about everything, and tend to be the people you see wanting employees fired instead of giving constructive criticism or ideas. Reddit is the more mature place of converse, and would highly recommend you came and joined us, as you seem to know how to explain things, I just don’t agree with you in this one. And before you mention it, I was curious to see what these forums were saying when I first replied to you...I usually am found on Reddit. Edit-pressed post by accident half way through typing this ;p

What big words are you talking about? Also when it is a crime to be articulate? That’s what wrong with society these days. Someone feels their brain pan is threatened and they try to insult the person. It really is a shame. So in Canada they swap how and why? Seriously? You then act like that isn’t a big thing? Lol no wonder you think I’m trying to show off if you guys are that bad. Eh at the end of a sentence may be funny but is way beyond swapping how and why. That changes the whole sentence. How are you today? Why are you today? Come on I said I wasn’t going to make a deal about it but with that absurd excuse I have to say something. Did I make you feel self conscious? Eh? I dunno. You say doesn’t own, not that the first opinion is garbage. I would think being wrong would make it unfair but as he echoes the sentiments of people who do own it (as we see on the forums) you have to try and cop out to ownership like it matters when making an opinion. Oh I forgot. You even concede in your post that a non owner could get all the info they to make a informed opinion. Amazing so ownership doesn’t matter?!? The point I made about you spying on him? What about it? The silence is deafening. Hundreds of hours? Sure because players grind on livestream. See but there is this place where people upload videos who can do edit out the grind. Watching videos of activities without the grind and you whittle it to around two dozen hours maybe three. What a bunch of baloney. Finally. Oh yes the “notorious casuals” who complain all the time since forever. The belittling and smug of yours that your comment shows aside...wait you came here to see what people were saying? Makes me wonder how you formed an opinion about the “notorious casuals” if you’re usually not here to such a degree that you claim this thread was you trying to see what’s being said. Reddit the “mature” place to converse and speak down on those “notorious casuals” on the Bungie forums. I’ll pass. You’ll have to do without my presence, sensitive sensibilities and me don’t mix. Say am I a notorious casual? D1 beta, D1 day one, AoT shirt, D2 beta, D2 day one? So does that make it okay for me to complain or no?

Ok, you’ve just wrote several paragraphs about a point that you completely misread and trying to judge in a way you don’t understand. Where I’m from, we sometimes say why instead of how, we are aware that it doesn’t make sense but unfortunately I’m not the one who decides what people say. I’m done talking with you, you have literally taken everything I’ve said to heart and replied with full blown essays each time, half of which is a reply to something you’ve misread. I’m just gonna mute you and leave you to have a political debate by yourself. Toodaloo little guy

You're defending an utter moron. Haven't played, can't make the judgment.

I didn’t defend his opinion just how he can form it. Learn the difference. Weak excuse, weak excuse. Crying to the wrong person.

Haven't played the game, you can't make that judgment. Learn the logic.