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#feedback

Edited by Iccotak: 2/26/2018 11:33:11 PM
72

Destiny 2 is incomplete

NOTE: This is a Long post. It has been divided and sectioned to make it easier to read. [u]Sections[/u] -Before we Start -Identity -Micro transactions -DLC -Character Customization -Base Game content -Conclusion [b]Before We Start[/b] Destiny 2 is an improvement over vanilla Destiny 1, and it is enjoyable. But compared to Destiny 1 + Expansions, Destiny 2 lacks content and does not utilize it concept. It is an serviceable game NOT a great sequel. It does not build on the past and repeats the same mistakes of the last game, in terms of content. The games I will most often reference are Borderlands 2, Diablo 3, Elder Scrolls, and Warframe. As all four games share many elements with Destiny. I want the readers to understand that the point of this post is to show that they should have higher expectations of the games they purchase. I will be going into detail about what is generally bad practice and what people should expect of a game of this scale. [b]Identity[/b] Destiny still has problems figuring it out what it is. Before you say that “Destiny is simply a looter shooter” or "Destiny is not an RPG" There are many other games that do the things Destiny tried, but better and start with more content available. [u]Bungie wanted to make a game with RPG mechanics[/u] where choices and exploration mattered. Most of what I am asking for is better world building and story context [b]Micro-Transactions[/b] Let’s be honest, the new microtransaction system affects gameplay. [u]For context; [/u] Bright engrams are the new loot packs you earn for leveling up after 20 and as you play through the maps. Each engram contains a few random items drawn from a pool. This loot includes Armors, Ornaments, Ghost Shells, Emotes, Sparrows, Ships, Shaders, and Mods. The items in these bright engrams are specific to them and therefore cannot be acquired anywhere else in the game. The item drops from engrams are random, so to get that specific item you are looking for, you are going to have to open multiple engrams in hopes of getting the item you want. Except for the fact that the loot can't be found anywhere else, it Sounds like a decent loot system. Until you see there is an option to simply buy Bright Engrams. How does this affect gameplay? "Want that cool animation? Well you could take your chances with the engrams you got as you played OR you could just buy a bunch of them and try your luck" It bypasses the hook of the game. You don’t have to earn them, you can just buy them. Locking customization behind randomized boxes. One of the core reward systems of the game can be broken by using real money. That is bad design. It purposely withholds content in order to encourage real money purchases. It's a psychological trick that preys on our wants. It was not so long ago that the things Destiny are asking money for would simply just be in the game. Nothing would be withheld behind a paywall until the Expansion packs. F2P games like Warframe get to use micro-transactions because they are F2P. That is how they support themselves. I gave them money in the past to support them. We already paid $60 for Destiny 2. They don’t need micro-transactions. (BTW not even Diablo 3 uses micro-transactions. You cannot buy Loot Crates and customization can be found throughout the game.) [b]DLC[/b] The way Bungie is going about DLCs is bad. Bungie Still holds back content so then they can dish it out as DLC a couple months after launch. After what happened with Destiny 1 NONE of us should be ok with this. It took Bungie about Three Years before they could make Destiny 1 feel like a whole game worth the $60 price tag. Yet I am hearing the same questions for Destiny 2 that I heard for Destiny 1. [i]-Where is the rest of the game? -Why do we have to wait for Bungie to bring more content? -Why isn’t the rest of the content in the game at launch?[/i] Destiny 2 should be a complete product at launch. The added content should not be what makes the game whole. The Game should already be whole and have enough content to keep us busy to the point that a full fledged expansion does not come until half a year, or more, later. (For comparison, Skyrim did not have a DLC until a year later) [b]Base Game[/b] Destiny is still lacking world building and proper story context. There is a severe lack of content for a game that has Four planets, with open world environments, the player can visit. Bungie boasted about the larger environments in this sequel yet they are just as empty as the previous game. Each planet feels like a side quest rather than a world filled with characters and exploration. It feels like you are walking through movie sets rather than actual worlds. You are stuck running through empty maps waiting for something to shoot. There is no meaningful environmental interaction and the only thing to do is shoot stuff. Why are the worlds so empty? Where are the characters and activities? If there is going to be Open World environments then each planet should have loads of stuff to do that can keep you busy for hours. [i]Each Planet should have the following.[/i] 1. Its own extensive storyline that also serves the main plot. 2. A Social Hub 3. Lots of NPCs to interact with. 4. An abundance of Side-Quests. 5. Exploration that rewards players 6. Lore 7. End Game. [u]Why an Extensive Storyline?[/u] Each world should be an investment. Each World represents a chapter in the story. Having a new environments for each major section of the game provides the sense of progression. They have beat an area and get to go somewhere NEW. Each Chapter should serve to expand upon and flesh out the universe while telling a story. [u]Why A Social Hub?[/u] If a player has to go back to the same social hub no matter what world they go to then they will feel like they are doing the same thing and nothing new is happening. Also it is disjointing from a writing perspective. Going back and forth between planets? Why? You want players to be invested in a location. [u]Why NPCs?[/u] Whether they are voiced or silent, Give the player a dialogue system that allows the player to interact the characters, to learn about the world. No one cared about the Last City because they never had any opportunity to talk with them. Make the Ghost a character we can interact with. Who we can ask questions. Who we can develop a connection with. Have NPCs go about their business like in Elder Scroll games. A Routine of their day to day life. RPGs make sure that their worlds are Full of characters, both large and small, for players to interact with to make it feel alive. [u]NPCs: Wildlife [/u] Depending on the world, in most cases there should be wildlife. Especially on Earth. Destiny takes place almost 1000 years in the future. With nature taking over, and who knows what was done in the golden age, there should be plenty of fauna for players to see running around. Deer, Elk, Wild Dogs, Birds, maybe a bear, etc. The world is a big place, fill it. Just like NPCs, open world games feel empty without wildlife. [u]Why Side Quests?[/u] Adding a plethora of side quests to the various NPCs gives the players reasons to explore the environments. They serve as a great way to flesh out the world. They can be tiny things like; “Please find my Spouse/Child/Pet”, “Please check out this dungeon”, “Please escort me to a location”, etc. little things that flesh out the world. Also having Long storylines that don't pertain to the main story is very important as well. This would be great for those Factions that everyone keeps asking to come back. [u]Exploration that rewards players[/u] You want to keep players INTERESTED. Grinding for Loot is nice but it can get old. It is nice to explore and get something for your efforts. Like in Borderlands when you find those huge chests. You have given them Open World environments with wonderful Art design and direction. Use them. Encourage players to explore the worlds and in return gain loot and lore for doing so. Exploration is a great way to get players invested. Make the ruins of humanity and other civilizations explorable and make it rewarding to do so. [u]Why Lore?[/u] Lore is almost the only thing that kept the player base interested in the game. It is what reviewers have said NEEDS to be in the game. Yet, we still see it missing Most Story heavy games have a lore codex that players can look at in the game. Destiny should have a Lore Codex (aka the Grimoire) start out with any basic information the player can learn about, then have it update with each new finding, encounter, and conversation, as you progress through the game. Fill the ruins of humanity with lore about the Golden Age: Put Books, Journals, Audio files, Drawings, Holograms, etc. things that players can check out. Having the option to ask the Ghost questions about the world, would be a great way to introduce and immerse players into the universe. (DOOM, a game where story does not matter, has a lore codex) Side Note: For a game with such rich lore, it sure lacks any story that is on par with it. Utilize the lore. Destiny 2 campaign was better than Destiny 1 but that is not saying much. Compared to previous titles like Halo 2, the story is sorely lacking. [u]Endgame[/u] This goes back to side quests. Destiny should have plenty of content to do after the story that is worthwhile because that is the other half of the game that makes people want to stay and adds re-playability to the world. The Base game content should provide that. Players should not have to wait for updates or a DLC three months from now to provide the Endgame content. [b]Conclusion[/b] Destiny should not be getting a pass simply because it has Potential. If it were a F2P game that would be one thing but we paid $60 for it. Destiny should be a complete Product at Launch.
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#feedback

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  • Edited by Rytram: 9/25/2017 11:19:26 AM
    dude. i TOTALLY AGREE. this game is completely lacking in substance. they had 3 years to make it because they started on it when D1 released. and yet what did they do with that time? make some CGI scenes, rush through a campaign like they didnt even want to make one, remove some of the best features of the first game, mock their players with guided games instead of proper matchmaking. honestly, this game feels hollow. and i never really could put my finger on it til i read your post. compared to other AAA games. this game is a shell, an illusion, it doesnt offer much at all. they have large worlds that are completely empty, un-ulilized and ultimately lack a purpose purpose. after doing the quests and adventures (which you could complete all of them on all planets in a single day) there is no reason to ever go to any planet. there is NOTHING, there is no explanation as to why a game studio of over 600 employees cant even come close to making a game that was as good as the halo series when they had not even half the staff when they made the halo series. or make a game that is as rich and story driven or NPC interactive as games of their peers like the "elder scrolls" or "Fallout". shit "borderlands" has more content and story. i know F2P MMO's that are far better. take "TERA" for example. you could spend an entire day in just one section, sure the side quests and bounties were redundant as -blam!-, but there was story to be had in each section. it was FULL of NPC's and WILDLIFE, where most of it was trying to kill you. in reality, Destiny tries to imitate a lot of these mechanics such as farming crafting materials, except they removed the entire purpose of those materials, like THERE IS NO POINT IN PLANETARY RESOURCES and we dont even grab them because it is literally not worth our time to hold the damn button when we are next to them. when you actually THINK about it, free yourself from the hype of the game and THINK about it and DARE to actually compare it to other games. you will find that this game franchise as a whole is a hollow piece of garbage with no substance, no story, no incentive, NOTHING. i appreciate a lot of things that bungie DID do such as make Public Events harder, add in fun little things to do in social spaces. hide things for us to find. but none of these things make up for the key flaws of the entire franchise. i LOVED ALL of the HALO games. the stories were intense and deep. you got invested. but this game? this game has NONE of that. a 15 mission campaign with some cutscenes, sure was an improvement upon the first game. but it still a FAR CRY from a real story driven game. i was burnt after the first game. not burnt as in bored, but burnt as in i felt used and taken advantage of. but Destiny 2 showed me exactly what i needed to see. and after the first 2 expansions, Bungie will never get my money again. i gave them a chance because i knew of some of the hardships they faced with losing some key staff early on in the first game, but that was supposed to be remedied with this game and it simply wasnt. if what we got was their idea of an attempt to fix those issues then its clear that they dont have any real intention of doing so and they dont care. BUNGIE has lost their way, they have gotten greedy and spoiled by the undeserved money they are getting from us, and mostly because we dont want to admit that we have been used. i will NOT be buying another Bungie game again. they are essentially dead and id be surprised if they were able to meet their 10 year goal with activision at this rate.

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  • I agree that when I pay $60, which is full price, I should get a full game. DLC is ruining gaming

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    • The problem is we are comparing the last year of Destiny to the first few weeks of D2. I think many of us are DISAPPOINTED because we thought BUNGIE had an understanding that what was implemented in D1 would carry over to D2. That is not the case, so many of us are scratching our heads.

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      • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr5a1mO-FmI

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      • So you want a Complete Game from bungie where you when you play it and complete you would still be upset about lack of content. but when Bungie gives you a game, with targeted release dates and scheduled events designed to keep the player interested and continuing to play its not enough. No matter what Bungie does you will not be happy, and will always complain. If it bothers you so much then stop playing the game. And as for the $60 price tag game have been costing $60 since the early 90's with SNES and game cartridges. So adjusting for inflation games are cheaper now than ever before because the price doesn't change, and the games get bigger and better.

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        • While I can understand you on most points, I could overlook it for something small. I really miss exotic swords, WHERE ARE THEY?! Hehe I know it's a simple request but damnit I want them back :D

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          • Bungie is incomplete

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          • Yea, D1.5 SUCKS👎🏻

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          • D2: Copy paste rinse repeat

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          • You know more on gaming than their full team. That's REALLY -blam!-ed up.

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          • Anyone else missing home?

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          • I agree with damn near everything except bright engrams. Now they do affect gameplay, given that sparrows can be obtained through them but nobody is forcing you to buy them. We have an alternate route that allows us to acquire the buggers. Granted that it's much quicker to just buy a pack of three instead of grinding the level for one but that means the players themselves are contributing to it. They willingly bypass the point of the game by taking the shortcut. Now admittedly some people could feel forced so they can be one of the cool kids with that new shiny ghost, ship, sparrow or emote but only the Sparrow has any stats that can be seen as beneficial but until SRL is here, it's doing nothing but getting from A to B 10% faster than usual (I don't know how much faster really, just giving an idea on how little it matters right now) nevertheless this post is hitting all the nails on the head with a giant hammer. Bump.

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            • This is exactly what we wanted when destiny first came out and they keep coming up short. I hope bioware reads this and we see it with anthem. Because bungie is not listening and will continue to give us this watered down games

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            • Bump! Great thread man. Good job!

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            • I'm very disappointed in destiny 2. It's a beautiful game but I feel all the magic and mystery has been removed. As well as bounties, quests, white whale weapons, raid gear (that helps in raid), hidden quests, dead ghosts, grimmore score, subclass customization, daily missions and tasks....etc. How could they do this to us? The end of destiny 1 they had all these great ideas, adventures and wonderful quest lines. It took bungie 3 years to fix destiny 1 and it seems they forgot all they learned and didn't listen to anyone that actually played destiny and instead listened to the players who played for 5 minutes complained and quit. What the hell were they thinking. EVERYONE I KNOW FEELS THIS WAY AND MOST ARE LOOKING FOR A NEW GAME TO PLAY. Please list what you miss and let's get bungie's attention so they can please fix this boring game!!! IS THIS EVEN DESTINY ANYMORE???

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            • It's D1 all over again. Incomplete game at launch that is to be filled in with DLC and, game updates to things like private matches.

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            • LOL, incomplete money grabs are Bungie's new MO and trademark HAVE FUN😃😃👍🏻

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              • Bruh... Destiny 1 is incomplete. Did you really expect 1.5 to be any different? If people read my previous rant (No need to now, the damage is done), you would see that I and many others who wrote on this forum predicted this ish. But nah we are just haters that complain too much. Go figure.

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                • Why every post seems to forget one thing? They are releasing small updates almost every two weeks to add stuff. Next week there will be the factions,then maybe iron banner and who knows. "But I want everything from the start" then go play for about 3 weeks then be bored. Also every single thing that you can buy from real money it's cosmetic,you can live without shaders,no one will kick you for that,and you can grind it out. This is game is sure flawed in some aspect,just choose the right ones.

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                  • Edited by WINTER PROPHET: 9/24/2017 9:17:45 PM
                    1) Supported again. The work put into this post, including the forethought regarding substantial ways to clarify and explain points made me come back and copy this link and share. 2) I try to bump posts like this only a couple times. Not because they shouldn't be supported, but because we tech shouldn't be bumping. It's a seriously well thought out post. 3) I do believe that "some" feedback goes beyond a vague mentioning at Bungies water coolers in their development area. I'd prefer Cozmo look at this post, I'm sure he's busy (edited: because of typo that said "busty") every day. Regardless, hope he remembers it. 4) This was a pleasure to read. Thanks man. And again, feedback matters, people who you've given feedback to Bungie to "better the game" for, because feedback is a catalyst for change for everyone, is about the game. Anybody who takes it personal, and makes it about personal hygiene, hair, race, religion, relationship preference, age etc matter as much as..... [spoiler] [/spoiler]

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                    • Found this article. Good read. Basically Activision would take control of Bungie's stocks if they didn't release Destiny 2 on time. This explains the incomplete product problem, again. http://fraghero.com/destiny-2-releasing-2017-bad-news-gamers/

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                      • Edited by ShrowdOfChaos: 9/25/2017 1:18:32 AM
                        Definitely some great feedback, and you haven't even touched on the differences between the end of Destiny 1's span to what we got with Destiny 2. Sadly it seems all those changes, for the better, that we got back in TTK & Rise of Iron have basically been undone. Most of the QoL changes that were made are, as far as I can tell, gone. Or they've been streamlined completely. Sure they may not have entire relevance to the current story of Destiny 2 but, where are our previous worlds? Why can't we go back to them? How about all those previous strikes, etc? Surely they could have been left in the Destiny world, and tweaked a bit to set them within the timeline of the Red War.... But instead we basically get Vanilla Destiny 2.0, or Destiny 1.5 as some have taken to call it. We've gone from this expanding world, with plenty to do... Back down to 4 worlds, a handful of strikes, and changes that (in my opinion) cater to the casuals. I for one miss being able to reply Story missions as I like, picking specific strikes to play, or crucible playlists, etc. Then there's the grind.. Or lack there of in Destiny 2.. Part of what kept me around in Destiny 1 was the grind, the want to get those god rolls, my T12 setup how I wanted it, etc. But none of that is in Destiny 2. At least at this time in Destiny 1 I was still grinding for stuff I wanted, exotics I wanted, etc. Destiny 2 on the other hand, I'm almost completely done with until DLC comes out simply because there is NOTHING more for me to do once I make my Titan and catch up to my Warlock & Hunter. Note: Yes I know I may just be recycling stuff people have heard/read elsewhere, but these are my views, my opinion. So meh.

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                        • Destiny 2 doesn't feel like a sequal to Destiny: Rise of Iron. It feels like a sequal to Vanilla Destiny. When D1 ended with Rise of Iron we had - Private Matches - Dozens of ways to reach maxed light - Strike specific Loot - PoE - Heroic Strikes - Vendor Bounties - Gunsmith Test guns - Dozen of PvP game modes. Seeing that D2 has none of these kind of disappoints me. There is absolutely no reason to run strikes in D2. Why waste 20-30mins doing a strike when you can just farm 10-15 public events and get a couple exotics in the same time frame? I miss my daily vanguard bounites too. Sure they were pointless at the end of the day, but it gave me reasons to go to planets and initiate death upon the enemies, especially when Eris had her class specific bounties like Kill Wizards with the Hunter while invis with a sniper and such. If you really want me to play Shock Shank Captain so much (I swear it's the only strike I ever get) can he at least have a chance to drop a sexy Hunter cape, or a Fallen themed Shotgun? I miss when sequals had everything the previous game had and more. Halo 1 had a good sized campaign and dozens of multiplayer maps. Halo 2 had a longer campaign, hidden skulls, even more maps, more weapons and game types. Halo 3 had long campaign, even more skulls, more enemies, more MP maps,.more game modes, Forge, theatre armor customization etc.... With each new game it had everything the olser one had plus ass loads more. Sure D2 has a "Cinematically Rich Campaign" and new patrols but it just seems like it doesn't have as much as D1 did when it ended. Even though I played it for 3yrs Destiny 1 never really felt "boring" to me. I always had something to do, whether it was testing gunsmith weapons, doing every vendor bounty, heroic strikes or dicking around in PoE, Archons forge or Court of Oryx. In Destiny 2, after I beat the campaign and did all the side quests in the patrols it feels like I have nothing to do. When I'd load into the Cosmodrome, I'd have my 15+ bounties to do and I'd let my mind melt. D2, I load into Nessus or EDZ and think... Well I did everything.. guess I could just warp around the map and do public events... I think I get more enjoyment watching people die while trying "The Floor is Lava" challenge in the Tower. Not to mention... This is Destiny!! The universe where we fight Hive God's, time bending machines,Fallen Pirates, and we had a Golden Age where some of the greatest gear and gadgets were ever made and the best things they could come up with for *new* weapons were SMGs and Grenade Launchers?? (Linear Fusions are kind of fun I guess..) Also 90% of the exotics in this game are not even worth the 5 Legendary shards you get for scraping them. :(

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                        • Why compare Destiny 1 + Every Expansions with Destiny 2 without any Expansions? Wait 3 years and then compare them, until then. Compare only D1 Vanilla with Destiny 2.

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                          • This is excellent feedback. I feel as though you hit a lot of Destiny 2’s problems right on the head. But I feel as though we should address the removal of some content from Destiny 1. Where has Rift or Mayhem gone. Here’s a decent list of stuff gone: -Rift -Mayhem -Black Spindle/Sleeper Simulant-ish Event -Strike Scoring -Strike Specific Loot -Bounties (Not challenges) -PvP Mode Selection -Sustainable End Game Grind - Taken King Runes/Archon’s Forge Event I feel some of these can be argued, but when it comes down to the basics, a LOT of Destiny 1 (+Expansions) was swept aside, even though that is what made the game good to begin with.

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                            • Excellent post.

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