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8/31/2017 12:22:12 AM
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This is a topic we have anticipated. Thank you for sharing your points in a constructive manner. It’s a conversation we will continue to monitor. Please continue to share honest feedback about your experiences in the wild. This is why we test. Thanks for playing. We’ll talk more after the PC Beta.
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Edited by MadHaze_01: 2/9/2018 10:21:27 PMI have been searching in vein for any kind of response from bungie about this subject! Some time has gone by now , I've made lots of posts about the state of the auto assist in this game recently, with no where near the support this post got months ago. This should tell you that most pc gamers (mouse and keyboard users) left this game a long time ago , and any new pc players will not stick around. Are you now ready to talk more about this since the beta ended a long time ago. I honestly think you could bring back a large portion of the pc community with news of ditching aim assist. Dice removed it in Battlefield one (or gave it a hefty nurf) and didn't include it in starwars battlefront 2, Blizzard removed it in over watch and call of duty ww2 doesn't support it on the PC . All for very good reason. You left it in and your game is in dire straits on pc. Same teams over and over again , lots with this magical aim. please Bungie get rid of this .
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Hey, it's been a while since pc beta, aa will be the deciding factor to many if they buy the game or not what's happening? Unfortunately 90% of my clan will boycott the game if it stays in the pc version of PvP 🤕
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I'm on the same boat. A couple of my friends are going to not buy this game unless AA is removed. They love the gun play of Destiny 2, but they said AA in pvp game like this has no place it killed the hype for them. They have a shit ton experience of shooters like Quake/Dirtybomb/TF2/Halo so they know what they are talking about. ~TGW
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I agree with the OP. Aim assist does not belong on the pc version of Destiny 2.
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You need to tell us what you are doing soon, I won't be buying this game if you keep AA in PvP If you remove it I'll guarantee a pre-order
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#pvehasnovoice
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I watched a vid that shows countless headshots with a pulse rifle. On D1 only the last 2 rounds were hitting because of recoil and drift, some PR's only got one round as a HS. It's a joke to see PC players use outside influences from software to track a target.
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Please figure out a way to detect devices like the XIM4. That's the problem on all platforms.
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Trouble is, there's no way to really detect it on any platforms. All the system sees is controller input. I agree with you that it should also be removed from the PS4/XB1. Even as a PC player that has two left thumbs when it comes to using a dualshock, I refuse to sink that low even though I'm not accustomed to a controller at all.
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This is a market problem that I don't think Bungie should be trying to solve. Let me explain... Console users appear to be coming to PC because of the better graphics. Some of these players wish to continue using controllers which I understand. I would too. But PC games typically do not have AA and imho, D2 should not have AA for PVP. Some of those console players are amazingly adept with the controller and I think they will have an unfair advantage. So... consoles clearly need better graphics. Console players are leaving D2 on console to play D2 on PC because of better graphics. Sony and M$ need to respond to this market demand. But let's not pollute D2 on PC by adding AA. It will diminish the game to accommodate a small percent of the player base. If you prefer a controller, stick with console. If the graphics limitation on console bothers you, come to PC. We will welcome you with open arms. Literally, the more the merrier. But you should have to deal with no AA while using a controller on PC or learn MnK. Until the console manufacturers respond by proving better graphics options these should be the choices you have. I played D1 on XB1 with a Xim. I've never been able to use a controller. And I have to say the Destiny community on XB was amazing. You are a truly wonderful community and I am thrilled some of you are coming to PC, truly. But you guys are hella good with that controller. You have more dexterity in your thumb than I do with my hand/wrist/arm. You guys are good with that thumb stick, real good. You'll have an advantage with AA. I know it, you know it, and I hope Bungie realizes it.
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Would you say the XIM gave you an unfair advantage or would you say you hated the AA
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To be honest I hate the AA on the console.
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/230369275/0/0 forum topic I made from my point of view
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You are part of the problem. People who use devices like the XIM4, both ways, are cheats. Quit blaming equipment for your lack of skill.
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I don't think using a Xim on a console is "cheating". I am mediocre at PVP and actually prefer raiding and other PVE content so I can assure you I gained no advantage by using a Xim. It simply allowed me to play on the console. Not even sure where you found a complaint in my post about "equipment". Where you perhaps responding to a different post? It's OK, the Internet is hard. Now using a Xim with a controller on the PC would in my opinion be cheating so I am in agreement with you there.
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Edited by Nabistay: 8/31/2017 4:42:00 PMAs a PC player and an Xbox player, I prefer a controller. I prefer playing on my TV than on my monitor. I love the way destiny feels, you at Bungie have made an amazing game that feels great to play. If someone who is like me, and plays with the controller as a primary method goes into Crucible and the feel is different, the AA is different, it is not going to feel the same. It will feel like my Guardian is weaker. Bungie has championed keeping the feel and play the same between PvE and PvP. Maybe I am in the vocal minority, but I think this method has merit and is the only correct way to make a game like this. You guys hit it out of the park in D1, don't mess it up by unlinking PvE and PvP feel. What I see here in this thread is a bunch of people who 1. Agree KB/M is better, and equally skilled players are going to perform better with KB/M than a controller without aim assist 2. A bunch of KB/M players who feel that with Aim Assist controllers cause the scenario with two equally skilled players to flip and give the game to the controller player 3. A lot of worry that the KB/M player will be at a unfair disadvantage the way it is currently, which directly mirrors how controller players will feel if the AA is taken out. I trust bungie to tune the AA over time. Fact is, KB/M is inherently better, and there has to be something to balance out the disadvantage you give yourself when you choose to use a controller. If there isn't, then Keyboard and Mouse becomes the only way to play and compete. Nobody likes being forced into choosing an input method they don't like, and it goes against the inclusiveness Destiny has and Bungie worked so hard for. And Skill-Based matchmaking will at least make sure games are close, even if people use different input methods. Who is to say that someone's skill with a controller is less than someone else's skill with a Keyboard/Mouse? They require different muscle memory, and they both require time to master. Neither is easy to pick up immediately. The analytics will show keyboard/mouse players getting headshotted by shots that the player wouldn't have gotten without AA, but it will also show controller players getting headshotted by shots the player couldn't have gotten without the precision of the controller. And if the numbers don't show that, then I am sure and trust bungie to do their tuning. And then nerf fusion rifles.
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You can plug a pc into a tv with HDMI cable since a few years ago. I get my console experience on games like Phantom Pain and Nier that way. Large tv + HDMI cable + xbox controller.
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Edited by Zormau: 9/1/2017 12:05:08 AM[quote]Fact is, KB/M is inherently better, and there has to be something to balance out the disadvantage you give yourself when you choose to use a controller.[/quote] Simply put: no. Choosing a worse input method does not warrant compensation if the better option is available, especially in a pvp context. You are responsible for your choices and should be ready to bear the consequences. The other issue is this: PvP is the place where players *compete* with one another, a test of who's better at playing the game, Supers, Power weapons and all. This competition, as in measuring one's skill against one another, is completely undermined by one player getting computer based assistance based on his input choice. Controller players still would lose far more than M/K players, but it will leave a sour taste to every kill: "Did I just get that kill because he's on a controller and couldn't physically turn around fast enough?" "Did he just get that kill on me because aim assist snapped him to my head and sticky aim traced me for him?" You should never be in a situation where you ask yourself those questions in a PvP game. There can be no even footing with Controllers and M/K mixed in FPS PvP.
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Maybe that is the way Competitive FPS games like CS and whatnot are, but that isn't destiny. Even desiny's competitive modes are less than hardcore. And yes, any skilled KB/M user should be able to kill a aim-assist controller player. Not all the time, but the amount of AA in D2 isn't enough to cover KB/M's natural advantage. The sour taste is real, and is bad, and should definitely be avoided if possible, but the analytics will show that KB/M still dominates even with AA on controllers. Controller players will still have that sour taste no matter what. But at least they have a chance at competing. If the analytics don't show that, it will be tuned and changed. Destiny isn't a pvp game. It is a game that has pvp. there is a very, very large difference there. PvP and PvE aren't two different games, they are just two parts of the same game. And just because you think it is impossible to achieve perfect parity between KB/M doesn't mean that attempting isn't worth it. Even a little bit of effort and software development can bring the gap closer. The number of players who benefit from something like this can (and if the numbers show it, will continue) to prove that it is worth it from a developer and pvp health perspective. More people will have options they wouldn't have otherwise, so more people will continue to play that wouldn't before, which means shorter queue times and better options for SBMM, which would mean the developers can support more game type queues, which means the game stays relevant for longer and provides more fun overall. That is the theory, anyway. Again, if it is the way you think, time will tell and they will reverse the decision. Analytics gathered and player performance will be judged and reviewed. They will attempt to do what they always do; maximize fun for everyone. And they have had mistakes before, look at the engram decryption issue Y1. I might not agree with their choice to remove AA from the game or from pvp, I think the reasons they have included it are sound. But show me the numbers in four months, and I will believe those over my experience no issue.
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I'm going to start out by saying I agree that in a competitive setting on PC I don't think there should be the option to use a controller with AA, but think there's a middle ground to be found here for the general public. Before the D2 PC beta the last time I played an FPS with KnM was over a decade ago. I've been a PlayStation guy since the Ps1 came out. Destiny coming to PC is what sparked my interest in playing on PC again, and I think that's going to be the case with a lot of people coming over to the PC. Going from being a pretty decent D1 player on console to a total KnM scrub is a little rough, but I bought myself a Razer gaming mouse and I'm making myself learn. Aiming with the mouse is awesome, but my character movement with the keyboard sucks. I'm sure a lot of people feel this way which is why they go back to the controller, and since video games are about having fun this is totally understandable. So I think controllers need to stay with aim assist for PvE for sure, but something needs to be changed for PvP. My solution has 2 parts. One would be reduce AA overall for controllers, in the PS4 beta it felt like AA was much weaker than the PC beta which seems backwards to me. If AA stays in PvP for controllers it needs to be closer to what the PS4 beta was. Second, hopefully bungie can implement a ranked playlist outside of the "competitive" playlist that only consists of 2 game modes, and I think it's here that controllers should have no AA at all. This way you could have a casual setting where controllers have AA for all game modes in both the Quick Play and Competative playlists, then in ranked you can still play all game modes where AA doesn't exist.
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Good on you for persevering and getting better with MnK. It gets easier! I’m the opposite to you. Most of my years playing PC games so when I got my PS4 for destiny I couldn’t shoot for love nor money. But through a lot of perseverance I’ve gotten much better. I’m still shockingly average however! I agree. I think in PvE AA is fine but it has no place in a competitive environment. ( me vs you. Not competitions) The problem is people are going out of their way to chose an inferior input method and then want it to be given a hand to level out the playing field. When you knowingly put yourself at a disadvantage (using a controller on a PC FPS) you’re going to have a hard time but that doesn’t mean you are entitled to have software help to make for your input methods shortcomings especially now it can be exploited and ruined for everyone else.
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Also, good job on making Destiny 2 more about gunplay. I am loving it!
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Edited by Broski: 8/31/2017 2:51:29 PMHow can these guardians even tell they are getting outplayed by the controller? I guarantee that even with the AA for a controller, mouse and keyboard is still way better and more versatile. A lot of assumptions here, IMO. Mouse/keyboard > controller any day.
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Sounds like most of them are upset because they are getting wrecked on PVP. They won't admit they just aren't that good even with a MnK. I played with both and I believe Bungie did great job evening out the playing field.
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By evening the playing field, you're pretty much admitting that controller is worse, aren't you?
