Appreciate the feedback. I will definitely let the devs know how you feel. If you agree or disagree with OP let me know in the comments below.
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People have already stated the obvious problem and I agree with them , separate nerfs so PVP no longer effects PVE . Thank you
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I agree. Furthermore, i believe pve and pvp should be 100% COMPLETELY SEPARATE. The nerfs hurt pve. Bad. I love the game but if they are intertwined like they are now then i can't go along with it. I'm sure it'll be a great game but watching the nerfs chip away at pve "fun factor" is just not worth it. Hopefully they have seen that too and will separate pve and pvp
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Edited by KSI MySTiiQuE: 5/5/2017 9:27:34 PMJust don't let PvP nerfs affect PvE and many users will be satisfied.
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Edited by puppyk1sses: 5/5/2017 9:01:58 PMIf Trials is in Destiny 2, find a way to make it less ridiculous, less divisive to the community, less toxic, find a way to get rid of paid carries, make it slightly more accessible to the average player, and do not make it the driving force behind all the balancing changes. If you can't do at least some of things, I would be in favor of scrapping it altogether. In the 3 years since launch, I've seen all my favorite weapons get neutered because of PvP. Exotics aren't exotic anymore, they are lesser quality legendaries with "fun" (read: not useful) perks. All my favorite guns, armor, and abilities have been reduced to marshmallow shooters because of PvP. The PvE experience is cheapened and largely dulled down because of the broad strokes of nerfs due to PvP. PvP should be the side dish, and PvE the main dish. You have had it wrong for 3 years now, and are presented with a fresh start and a chance to get it right with Destiny 2. Don't screw it up!
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I have mixed feelings about Trials, and while I don't think it should be removed I think it requires some significant reworking for D2. Trials and ultimately (going flawless/to the lighthouse) is the PvP end game PvE equivalent of activities like Hard-Mode Raid Challenges. It's meant to be a challenge, but ultimately can be completed through good teamwork. While I like the idea of a competitive game mode for PvP players in theory the execution in D1 has lead to some unintended and somewhat toxic results within the game and community. Here are a few ways I think Trials could be improved in D2. [u][b]1. Separation of PvP and PvE balancing[/b][/u] - This can be accomplished a number of ways, but the bottom line is that a weapon or ability that needs adjustment for PvP balance should not inherently impact my PvE experience. Similarly the opposite is true for PvE vs. PvP balancing. Though I'm sure it's not true, it is the perception of most of the community that all balancing currently originates from PvP feedback and it's hard to dispute that based on the communication we receive from you and Deej. [u][b]2. Add Tiers[/b][/u] - On a weekly basis players who go flawless should be moved into a pool of other players who have also gone flawless. This should reset weekly and boons to grant an additional win should be removed to prevent exploiting. Cards should also be tied to the team and not the individual. New team, new card. I understand all of the arguments from the competitive community against doing this. "Pure competition." "Not fair to the top players." Etc. My argument is that doing so would help mitigate an extremely toxic part of the Trials experience, that being the [u]Paid Carry[/u]. The paid carry takes many forms. YouTube/Twitch carries for views/likes, carry for cash, account retrievals for guaranteed flawless runs. No matter how you slice it Trials has created a pay-to-win system only with the top PvP players being the beneficiaries instead of Bungie/Activision (although, one could argue that the free publicity the game receives via these streamers would qualify as a financial gain for the company). While moving flawless players to their own pool wouldn't completely remove this element from the community, it would allow for a system which would more readily allow for average skill players to achieve victory through their own efforts as opposed to resorting to these other means. At the end of the day Destiny for most is about having fun with your friends. A system where you feel you need to pay complete strangers to access pieces of its content is neither fun, nor friendly. [u][b]3. Mix it Up[/b][/u] - Trials = Elimination, but it doesn't have to. I'm speaking for myself here, but I don't think I'm alone. in saying I hate Elimination. It and Skirmish are my absolute least favorite game modes. It's slow, it's methodical, it's the PvP equivalent of playing Chess which I also hate. Let's change things up once in a while just like the rest of the end-game content. How about an objective game mode? How about 6 man game modes? How about another game type once in a while? Iron banner rotates, even Raid challenges rotate weekly, why not Trials? [u][b]4. Keep the Bounty Changes[/b][/u] - This one is simple but the weekly crucible bounties and Osiris bounties dropping weapons/armor is a nice touch for players who want to compete but may not be able to go all the way themselves.
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I like this @Cozmo this is a very great idea
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Totally agree. The Golden State Warriors don't play teams in the D-league. That would be ridiculous right? Trials is the same. Have two-three separate tiers and more people can have fun.
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I'd keep tiers limited to 2 levels. Have and Have Not gone Flawless this week. Doing so would prevent the matchmaking pools from becoming too diluted and would in theory make the entry tier easier to compete in as the weekend went on. I'm even fine with adding an additional emblem or something similar for those who can go flawless a second time in the flawless tier.
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I agree with OP its trash. Same map "all week", same people, same meta and same lag. How can you call it elite, top teir player base when shots are all RNG. Some count some dont. If there were dedicated servers, participation bans for bad conections, constant map rotations and a one time deal with the option to continue after successful competion of trials card against others in the same position. All would be right in trials..
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[quote]lol just no. Let me start out by saying I'm average at trials and Pvp in general but I do like to play a little of each. PvP is NOT the problem. I don't know if it's coding or what but pvp needs to be separated from PVE in D2. There is no reason to exile a whole demographic. Some players only play PvP, some just play PVE and some like me play everything. Trials is a big portion of why players still play this game. Everyone wants balance but truth be told in a game with different classes, Subclasses, Armor perks and weapon perks this will [b]Never[/b] be possible. The whole system needs to be reworked and mark my words if this dose happen people will still come to forums to complain and what they can't do in D2 because we could do it D1.....All in the name of balance.[/quote]
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seperate pve and pvp in d2 if not throw ur game in the garbage cuz that what it willl be
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@Cozmo, Thanks for taking the time to review our feedback. I'm going to apologize up front if I get a bit long. Part of my day job is as an analyst for software systems and design, and I can't get that out of my system. :-( When one looks back historically, Trials does seem to be a the root of most of the negativity towards the game. Whether it's sweats, paid carries, mode changes, or gear nerfs that seems to be the most frequent driver. Yes, the streamers might be important from a revenue standpoint, but it becomes a negative when it alienates the player base. From appearances Trials has done just that for both PvE and regular PvP. My first suggestion would be that if Trials is kept it is separated from *both* PvE and regular PvP. Though I'm a very casual Crucible player, I do rather like the concept of my gear going seamlessly from one mode to the other. Yeah, someone's fighting style might annoy me, but I'm sure my Voidwalker's Axion Bolt is just as annoying for that sliding Titan with the shotgun is for me. Learning to deal with that, though, makes me a better fighter and isn't that what the Tower says Crucible is all about? Really the only thing that needs to be separated for PvP should be Trials. Changes driven by Trials not only make PvE less fun, but interfere with the enjoyment of the normal Crucible for the casual player. Balance and nerf for Trials all you (or it's aficionados) want and you won't harm the bulk of the player base. With the competitive play separate like this it will also open the opportunity to turn it into a first class competition. This could be the safest way to introduce a ranked or tiered system without affecting the rest of the game. A lack of Trials rank has done a lot of harm. This has been a primary drive for the paid carries in PvP, created lopsided matches, driven much of the "nerf this..." complaints, and generally hurt the reputation of what is otherwise a great game. You could have tournaments where specific challenges or rules apply. Perhaps one week having assigned loadouts. Another using the gunsmith test weapons. Maybe a week that is only abilities and no weapons. Class only or class restricted contests or class requirements for the fireteams. One week only snipers, another only shotguns ... the options are endless. Heck, if trials are separate from PvE and regular PvP, you can even have competitions where nerfs or buffs are in place for *only* that competition. A different meta every week! Or perhaps a Grand Melee where you have everyone with their own gear and LL applies in a free for all. Of course for something like that, you'd want more than 6 players at a time. 24 or 32 might be good. In short, if Trials exists in a form that resembles anything like the current iteration, then I'd agree with the OP. Cut it and leave just the regular Crucible. If the "suits" are willing let you, though, make Trials into something that is unique in gaming. Just do it without hurting the rest of the game. Heck, if you do this, you might find yourself with a lot more Trials players. This would have another huge benefit, especially for PvE players. To implement something like I've described, a Trials configuration tool would be needed. Yes, that is something that would require up-front investment. However, once done it should free up resources and people that could be better used in building additional endgame content, missions, story, etc. I.e. it could help make it more cost effective to address the other biggest complain in the game: story content. What you have here is a golden opportunity to help players of all modes. Hope you can convince the powers-that-be to take it.
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Balance pvp and pve seperately.
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Meh, just separate nerfs/buffs in trials from everything else, especially PvE. I don't really care if it exists or not. If trials is as toxic in D2 as it is in d1 I simply won't play it. Easy, simple fix for me lol.
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Either remove trials or stop letting trials dictate every weapons and ability balance in the game. The rest of the pvp playlists as well as pve always get affected also. Trials has turned pvp into a sticky nade fest with sidearms.
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Completely agree. The old Bungie based their games on fun. Not on being competitive. Follow the old Bungie in their footsteps
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If pvp nerfs were separated from pve it wouldn't be a issue
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Trials should absolutely stay. Also with how popular it is now & was in the past I'm sure it will come back in d2. However, it's current form could use some adjustments. If it's to be the game mode for the higher skilled players like originally advertised it should be a ranked playlist with competitive matchmaking. As such it should have rules that separate it from public matches that make the playing field more balanced. For instance example: [spoiler]it's easy to see that hunters are objectively weaker than other classes in terms of the kit increasingly so when utilized by skilled players (warlocks with melee tracking & range as well as abilities, not to mention grenade effectiveness). In light of that, limiting the amount of warlocks on a team or something to that effect would be a clear choice. Though the gap between the classes may be thinner in d2 it's just something to think about. [/spoiler] *It's gameplay shouldn't be the same map every time all weekend to provide an incentive for players to develop different strategies *The flag shouldn't spawn in the same point every time to keep players from "strategically sitting" where they know it will spawn every round *Spawns should also flip every round to ensure one team doesn't best another mostly due to map advantage That's pretty much it for what I can immediately come up with. Thank you for taking the time to read!
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Im liking your ideas there buddy.
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Edited by dano the hippie: 5/5/2017 8:39:58 PMMy main thing about trials is how it effects the game negatively. Such as the skorri nerf. Now as a frequent raider skorri gave me nothing but pure pre-encounter pleasure. And the trials players cried about it and took it from me. They took my pleasure from me!!!!
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Totally
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Why not remove it, it's the SAME people and the SAME streamers playing every weekend doing carries on the SAME character. Nothing changes except for a few people who decide to finally give it a try and then realize how tryhard and MLG it is then say F it. If Destiny would limit accounts, mac addresses, ip addresses, something, to limit people to running one flawless per week per character then maybe casual people would give it a go and probably have a good time and enjoy 6-7 wins and possibly go flawless. But until that time, it's the same people on the same hunter running multiple accounts through trials.
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Disagree but it should not be the major influence for nerfs either. Like op said, many people don't play trials and so nerfing weapons over that isn't fair to the player base that is playing pve.
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Cozmo, give us back some normal special ammo man! Level out the playing field in Trials of Wormsiris