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#feedback

2/16/2017 8:16:15 PM
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Hotfix 2.5.0.2 Feedback

There are a lot of threads out there already on the new changes, but I wanted to give a central location to point everyone to when they ask me where they can share their thoughts. Now that you have had a few days to play the new changes we want to hear what you experiences have been playing. What do you like? What do you hate? What do you think is good but could be better? What would you change?
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  • Started a new topic: 2.5.0.1.2

  • Super long, don't bitch about it. [b]The loves:[/b] -Hand cannon accuracy changes; this has been needed for so long, and it's finally fixed. I can run a Vanity now without feeling like I'm in hard mode. -Restructuring the top and bottom pulse types; while I'm not a fan of changing the fire rate on the Grasp archetype (I would rather have seen it require 3 bursts plus 1 bullet to kill) it tames the guns down a bit, and moves the high impact types back into the realm of reality -Pulse flinch change; flinch should always be based more on impact, not on rate of hits. -Juggernaut changes; this keeps the ability at it's same strength, but makes a trade-off. You can skate all the time, jug all the time, but not both, and that's good. -Thundersnipe changes; I know a lot of stormcallers say this is the only thing they had, but I've seen people run most of a game just using the melee. When you can do that, something's not right. -Throwing knives; all I can say is 'about time'. I can't count the number of bounties I've tried to complete with them. 10 minutes later, I remember that none of them count. -Unified sticky damage; again, they should all act the same. If you land it, they should die. I would like to see them magnetize a little less, but that's a separate issue. -Increased accuracy in air; I definitely appreciate that there's not a 100% chance you'll miss your shots with anything but a hand cannon now, saved my ass while soloing the nightfall last night. -Special ammo economy change; for the most part, I enjoy this, as it makes specials [i]special[/i]. There are a few issues with it, but that's another section. [b] The dislikes:[/b] -Life-stealing ability changes; I don't mind the actual changes, but the way in which they came about shows either an atrocious lack of good coding practices, bad process control, or that you wanted them in, but added them as a 'mistake' rather than face the backlash of the community from owning it. If you broke it, fix it. If you changed it, own up to it, and explain why. Your consumers (meaning your employers) deserve that courtesy. -The AR 'buff'; functionally, nothing changed. focus fire got a little better, but standard AR's are about the same as they were. I'm not sure how to change that without making them insanely strong, but it's still an issue in some cases. -The special ammo economy changes; the changes are good in general, but some of the fine points got missed. Losing all ammo on death is a bit much. I would prefer to see ammo reduced to a full magazine or by 50%, whichever is larger. That way, you aren't totally out, but you don't get to hoard it. If you die with only a full mag, you lose half of it. Allowing sidearms to keep all their ammo is a mistake as well; they need to reduce to the standard spawn-in ammo level of one mag, plus one in reserve. As much as I hate to say this, because exotics are already weak, the ammo regen on Invective and Icebreaker needs to be suspended in Crucible, to avoid giving an incentive to camp. I know people will hate that, but it is probably necessary in the longrun. -NLB; no changes to the NLB. You made an effort to curtail specials, but left the NLB alone. It's a very potent exotic, and it will become the gun of choice for a large number of people in Trials. As much as I respect the skill of players that opt to use it, it defies the architecture you just tried to implement, and it might need some alteration. The trick is, I don't know what might need to be done to it, but it should probably be watched. -Shinobu changes; I don't think that making a change was bad, and this is coming from a hunter main. I think that the appropriate change would have been to slightly increase their speed (5%), but put them on a 5 second timer; time expires, they fall to the ground. This provides a motivation to use them, and a method to avoid them, which is the primary issue right now. The extra tracker isn't really a huge plus or minus, not sure why you went for that; it's a non-lethal grenade even with the 5 trackers. -Blink; seriously, what in the name of all things cold and shiny was the matter with blink? The speed of it got taken away a long time ago, so it's not an assault tactic now. The frequency of use got reduced severely, leaving people grounded too often. The recovery penalty was already too much after that, and was basically only put in place to make Astrocyte more appealing. Now removing the HUD...who in the studio hates this ability that much? Seriously, the auditory cue alone makes it less valuable, because I can hear you blinking at me from half the map away. Better control and bones is a far superior movement tactic, both for mobility and for shooting from the air. I think you need to figure out why there is such a grudge against this ability, and eliminate that. Then revert the latest change and consider making the recovery penalty only effective for a few seconds after a blink is used. -Truth; don't even try to bs on this on, this was a nerf-by-numbers. It had a high kill feed, in Trials especially, and you decided to kneecap it. In the first place, the reduction to 1 in the mag was simply vindictive; 2 would have been enough to bring it down, but keep it viable. But the bigger issue is that people are using high blast rocket launchers with tripod and tracking...because they are really good. I have a Choleric Dragon with both perks, and I honestly can't say that I've ever noticed any difference between it and Truth. I know the tracking isn't as aggressive, it's not quite as polished, but it functionally does almost the exact same thing as a legendary. The only reason I use Truth is for the element and the gold finish. Consider boosting the mag size to 2. -Landfall; I would have made a different change. If landfall gets a kill, you take some super energy off of the bar (but the same amount, no matter how many kills it gets!). If not, the duration of the super remains unchanged. -Ionic Blink; needs to cost more, or incur some penalty, like the recovery penalty to regular blink. As it stands, it's far too useful for the cost. Care would need to be taken not to make the super worse, but make the blink a tradeoff rather than a minimal cost. I might be way off base on this one, but it is a small concern. -Hand cannon damage fall-off; I'm really split on this one. I agree that damage fall-off is needed on accurate hand cannons, or they become scouts. But I don't know if I agree that moving the distance closer was truly needed. I believe that simply moving the minimum damage to 33% might have been enough. Without having a test bed for this, I can't draw any conclusions, but it seems a tiny bit too severe to me. This might just require an adjustment period, as well. -Range / accuracy on low-range hand cannons; for the most part, this isn't a huge issue, but I do notice that having a high range score still allows for much more accuracy at a distance than a low range score. in and of itself, this isn't an issue, but it leads into the next problem, which is... -Exotic hand cannon ranges; this has been jacked up for quite a while now. On normal hand cannons, you get the opportunity to roll for a better set of perks. On exotics, you are stuck with what there is, and the perks don't always mesh with the current system. I would propose changing the range perk on Thorn, Hawkmoon, Ace of Spades, and changing Lightweight to Rifled barrel on the First Curse. Leave everything else as it is, but this would put these guns in a solidly competitive position, without increasing their power overtly (and let me repeat, don't change anything else; leave the stability, mag size, impact, base range alone; changing anything else would make a bigger mess than there already is) -Exotic weapons in general; oh my, I have to assume you basically just hate these guns at this point. Most of them are pointless, in PvE and PvP. Let's look at a few. Hard Light: for the love of God, change that recoil direction stat to something that isn't completely random. This gun has near-max stability, but feels like holding a jack hammer. Boolean Gemini: combine One Way and Or Another into a single perk; remove the front post from the sights to make aiming less cluttered and annoying (love this gun) Red Death: Add an RPM selection to allow it to be in either the highest or second highest impact class, remove the front post from the sight to make aiming less cluttered and annoying. NTTE: Remove the muzzle flare effect to make aiming easier, reduce the height of the side plates to increase visibility, add a node to allow users to select a simpler red-dot type sight; this gun is outstanding, but the design of it makes using it harder. Touch of Malice: allow the Touch of Malice perk to be turned off; this would allow PvP useage without the constant risk of suicide, but with no benefits. Class-specific weapons: remove the class limitation, possibly through questing. There's more, but these came to mind immediately. -Useless perks; guerrilla fighter, take a knee, exhumed, second wind, all basically never select, never useful. Who's Next? Who cares, it's pointless on a scout with 15+ rounds; you'll almost never run dry before reloading. Secret Round? no ne understands it fully, and most people consider it a detriment to have; the previous function (reducing burst cost) was much better and clearer. As they stand, these perks simply serve to increase grind time by providing trash options in place of so-so or decent ones. Either rework them based on community interaction and feedback, or remove them from the game. We -all- hate them. Every single one of us.

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    • Like - mapador is dead Don't like - the rest of the game is dead too.

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      • HATE if you want to see what people want have 2.5.0.2 available as a choice, second choice in crucible year 1 crucible with levels tuned to that. see which one is picked. I have a feeling that the year 1 lobby would be more popular. reason being it would show you the focus you have towards crucible is flawed in that you are making crucible what you want and not what a lot of people want. i personally think that primary weapons needed to be buffed not another massive round of nerfs yet again. LIKE I was taking a break from the game waiting for this. well after you dropped this patch I still have way more spare time as I am not going to play the game you are making. I preferred year 1 where primary weapons were powerful as was specials and heavy.

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      • Aside from Golden Gun, Bladedancer is the easiest super to shutdown before the patch Changing Hungering blade changed nothing its still easy to shutdown. Try shutting down a nova or fist of havoc, should we nerf those too because they kill you?? I dont think so. Blades are THE easiest super to trade with no one felt otherwise except the playtesers at Bungie were scared the Special ammo change would make blade more deadly... but nope it sure didnt. Litterally throw a grenade unload your primary then time s good melee and if that didnt kill him your teammate will deliver one shot to kill him. Now if it was Nova Bomb both those guys are dead there is no trade with the Voidwalker. Please consider changing Hungering Blade back because no one minded in pvp...but the consequences in pve to Titans and Voidwalkers is far worse considering it was never a problem in pvp. Hell hammers cauterize was more useful because you wouldnt risk trading unlike with Blade

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      • Edited by lx DINGO xl: 2/17/2017 5:05:35 PM
        I hate how the health regeneration change on the bladedancer affected my defender titan. So defender got nerfed and Bungie kinda just shrugged it off saying we will see how it pans out.....I think that's the wrong answer. I feel if you wanted it to turn out one way and told your audience it was going to be one way but got messed up you should fix it. Also the health regeneration perk on helmets not working properly is concerning as well. As far as the health regeneration for popping a super on the defender I love how I'm in pvp and when I get I'm trouble I pop my bubble but die instantly because I have no health and get a shotgun to the face or a melee. Its a great use of a useless super thats suppose to lrotect you or others.Please fix what wasn't intended to be nerfed please. Everything else seems to be an awesome cup of tea. Everything feels right for the weapons except maybe did something happen to the zhalo? That thing is a monster now.

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      • Dont like the fact that ur game decides in crucible who wins and who gets owned so u keep the 50/50 win loss ratio for most ppl. Thats why one game i get 1-2 shot by all and everything and 3 games later im supercharged and unstoppable. What a fraud!

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      • You need to ask this same question a month from now when the "meta" has settled in and everyone is running around using the same guns again, as they do with EVERY meta. The problem with this rotating meta model is it only creates diversity in the SHORT term, and it doesn't create diversity in the long term. Right now, everyone is rotating loadouts trying to find what loadout provides them with the biggest advantage is. This means there is more diversity in the SHORT TERM. But once everyone has zeroed in on the best overall loadout for this current meta, then you will have a stagnant meta, with everyone essentially using the exact same loadout. It's entirely predictable. You get short-term diversity, and after a month or so, you get long-term stagnation where everyone is running around using cookie cutter guns and cookie cutter builds. This is the argument AGAINST a rotating meta model and an argument FOR a model which essentially makes every single gun and class meta-good. The only way to have true weapon diversity is to have all guns equally great. I know people will say "right now, more guns are viable than ever" but that is due to two factors. 1) The meta being unsettled, and 2) all guns being equally bad. You can have all guns be viable by having all guns and classes equally BAD, or you can have all guns and classes be viable by having them equally GOOD. And it seems that the current sandbox team has taken the route of making all of the guns and classes equally bad, and a great example of this is shotguns. Sure, they may still be viable right now, but they're nowhere near as fun to use NOW as they were in HoW. Yeah, many complained about shotguns during HoW, but the truth was that they were fun weapons to use. You could still snipe during How because snipers hadn't been nerfed yet. In fact, during HoW, most weapons were viable because they were just downright GOOD weapons (with the exception of a few archetypes that needed buffs in order to compete).

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      • I [u]only have one problem with destiny and that is the exotics from the April update back in 2015 ik this is me being ignorant but may the Lord of wolves like, dregs promise and Queen breakers bow bemail able to be brought from year one to year 2/3 ithe would mean the world to me

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        • I got destiny when I originally got my Xbox one right after year 2 sparrow racing and I've always been a hardcore sniper. I always got by with the nerfs and buffs even after shotguns got ridiculous, but now when a shotgun rushes you and you can't even run last word sniper because you won't have that medium range counter it's just miserable.. I mean how much more are you planning to kill snipers all together? First the nerf adding flinch (annoying but it was necessary tbh) now the only practical snipers you can use are nlb and ice breaker. I mean the god roll snipers you get after hours of grinding turn kinda bad after you can't use blade dance QuickDraw and ophidian aspects to use then to their full potential. I get you didn't want to "nerf shotguns and call it a day" but why nerf all special but sidearms?? Sorry for the long post but I have super negative feelings towards this update. Tone the range on shotguns down a bit make jugg a bit less broken (thank you for that) kill off clever dragon and then have yourself a hotfix. Way better than breaking the fun stuff to use. Tbh I really feel targeted in this because I sniped with blade blink and last word (was a shinobu fag) and everything I listed got hit.

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        • Overall I'm happy with it. Here are my thoughts: Keep the long range shotgun nerf. It was long overdue. Kill the special ammo loss. It makes the game very one dimensional. Suddenly it becomes a primary game only. Compromise the mag size on Truth. Maybe 2? Going 3 tip 1 is a bit extreme. Personally I see no reason to nerf but, if you have to, make it 2. One mag launchers are useless. Fix the regen issues.

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        • Like: auto rifle Buff. Hate: Absolutely every other nerf. Blade dancers are awful. How could you think nerfing special ammo and leaving sidearm unchanged would do Anything except make everyone use the same special weapon? Sidearm lol. Elementary mistake. Bring back special ammo. Can't stand how many nerfs... Truth completely uncalled for. Give it 3 again. Stop nerfing everything to balance it. Buff to balance. LAST THING: this game. The guns. Everything is a shell of what it once was because of soooo many nerfs. Over 2 years there has been nerf after nerf while few if any guns or abilities are buffed. Very sad. Cozmo will be playing horizon zero dawn Feb 28 like the rest of us.

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        • I got destiny when I originally got my Xbox one right after year 2 sparrow racing and I've always been a hardcore sniper. I always got by with the nerfs and buffs even after shotguns got ridiculous, but now when a shotgun rushes you and you can't even run last word sniper because you won't have that medium range counter it's just miserable.. I mean how much more are you planning to kill snipers all together? First the nerf adding flinch (annoying but it was necessary tbh) now the only practical snipers you can use are nlb and ice breaker. I mean the god roll snipers you get after hours of grinding turn kinda bad after you can't use blade dance QuickDraw and ophidian aspects to use then to their full potential. I get you didn't want to "nerf shotguns and call it a day" but why nerf all special but sidearms?? Sorry for the long post but I have super negative feelings towards this update. Tone the range on shotguns down a bit make jugg a bit less broken (thank you for that) kill off clever dragon and then have yourself a hotfix. Way better than breaking the fun stuff to use. Tbh I really feel targeted in this because I sniped with blade blink and last word (was a shinobu fag) and everything I listed got hit.

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        • I'm happy to say PvP feels great now, the weapon changes are all welcome and I belive it allows the game to flow properly. I was concerned about the special ammo changes but honestly after playing I think I get more special than I use to, everytime I spawn I feel like there is ammo right there waiting! The health regen stuff should be fixed especially if its affecting PVE. I get the problem with skorri but if you make changes to it please don't ruin it for PVE. All in all this patch is really good and I think the more time people spend playing the game instead of complaining on the forums they will notice how good it actually is.

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          • [quote]There are a lot of threads out there already on the new changes, but I wanted to give a central location to point everyone to when they ask me where they can share their thoughts. Now that you have had a few days to play the new changes we want to hear what you experiences have been playing. What do you like? What do you hate? What do you think is good but could be better? What would you change?[/quote] Like Primary weapons are stronger, like that shotgun warriors are weaker. Like autorifle buff. Love me a straffey Primary drawn out battle. Keep time to kill a long and strong skill and talent. Like a Special ammo nerf but you should spawn with at least a magazine to defend against spawn poaching, hate that. Less, much less, Special ammo spawns please (try 2 per match, either side of Heavy ammo spawn) Hate the Truth nerf. It was only so high on the stats as Legendary weapons with good perks are (were) generally better than Exotic weapons, so it was a common loadout. Change Special ammo spawns to 2 per game, either side of Heavy ammo spawn. In Australia, come over and fix the network and our terrible internet. NZ is even better than us. I can only get on a match on daily and weekly Crucible variants. Love your game. Stay true to what you yourselves love to play because it must be right. The world will see soon enough. I believe in you guys. Cheers

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          • Oh yah, just nerf sidearms and handcannons already while your at it. I'm so mad I'll put my foot up your donkey. -red Forman.

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          • [quote] What do you like? [/quote] The primary weapons changes were great! I'm loving that I have an opportunity to experiment with all the great rolls in my vault now. I'm trying guns I never would have had the ability to use pre-patch because I don't have to worry about shotguns in my face and snipers constantly. Scouts are actually worth using now and I'm having a ton of fun with it. I feel like every weapon type has a distinct "range" it should be used within now. No more cross mapping with a hand cannon when it really shouldn't have. I'm also liking the special ammo changes. At first, I thought they were harsh, but I have figured out how to handle it and can still snipe at will when I get it. For sixes, it seems fair. Haven't played trials yet, but we will see how it plays out there. [quote] What do you hate? [/quote] Well, while I 100% agree with the change to hungering blade, I hated that it killed over 10 other health regen perks. That should NOT have happened. I hope there is a quick fix to put the rest of the perks back to their pre-patch capabilities. The blink nerf was uncalled for and not required. It has made blink completely useless, offensively and defensively. This should be changed back to pre-patch capability. The Truth shouldn't have been put down to 3 rockets in the mag. Heavy only spawned once per match anyway, and you could only get 2 rockets out of it. If Bungie was worried about Mayhem, well the point of Mayhem is all-out craziness anyway. That was unnecessary to change it. [quote] What do you think is good but could be better? [/quote] The sidearm's keeping ammo was great. They are powerful, but they can't 1 hit kill. However, they shouldn't keep ALL ammo. Just their standard amount of about 20 - 16 shots (depending on impact type). If they could respawn with just a set amount, that would stop people from running with Tresspasser and 100 rounds constantly. The Quickdraw perk on the bladedancer probably shouldn't have been changed. I like the concept though (because everyone used it over everything else), but I feel like the other two perks in that tree maybe should have gotten a buff of some form that would make them more attractive perks to use instead of quickdraw. [quote] What would you change? [/quote] Well, as stated above...I proposed some changes with the issues that I've mentioned. Here is a summarization: 1) Fix the unwanted health regen changes to everything except Hungering Blade. 2) Put Blink back where it was before the patch. 3) Put Truth either back to pre patch, or allow just 2 rounds in the mag. 4) Change how sidearms maintain their ammo upon respawn to have a set amount of ammo, instead of retaining all of it. 5) Change "Fleet Footed" and "Shadowjack" in some form so they are more attractive options. Put blade dancers "Quickdraw" perk back to pre-patch. There are other things that weren't even mentioned though. 1) Change the Astrocyte Verse so it is useful. It is currently the worst exotic armor piece in the game. It's only made worse with the current changes to blink. 2) Change Trials of Osiris so that spawn points alternate each round, making unbalanced maps more fair for all players. 3) Remove year 2 gear from Trials Gold bounties and replace it with Year 3 weapons and Year 3 armor (without possibility for ornaments maybe?) 4) Fix the infinite super glitch. I appreciate you asking what the community thinks and I hope that some of these changes happen soon. I feel like the community reaction to this patch has been mostly negative, for good reason. I applaud the changes that brought the primary weapons to the forefront and it has made the game quite fun in PvP, but there is clearly still work to be done. Thank you.

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          • When I first saw the special ammo changes I was pretty unhappy, but after a bit I decided I'm OK with it. It's a reasonable way for a game to treat special ammo, it's just really different from what existed before. Special drops are now kind of like mini, more frequent heavy ammo drops. To me it just makes the game different, not necessarily worse. The change to Hungering Blade...well, I rarely play a Blade Dancer so I can't really speak to whether that particular change was justified. But I'm really upset that it spilled over to so many other things and the response wasn't to either roll it back and try again or promise (and deliver!) a quick fix to the unintentionally affected perks. It's just really crappy and disappointing that my Voidwalker's PvE game took a huge hit because of a nerf to Bladedancer's PvP game. I'm sure plenty of Titans feel the same way. There have been so many times that guns and perks were nerfed in PvE because of PvP. It stinks, but at least it was on purpose and (I assume) the effect on PvE was at least considered a bit, and there was some justification of wanting things to feel the same in PvP and PvE. That's very different from a nerf targeted to a specific subclass perk accidently spilling all over the game. As a Voidwalker in particular, I feel like I was playing a style heavily encouraged by the last patch (the healing, quick recharge grenades, etc.) I enjoyed the hell out of it, and for it to suddenly take a big nerf because of a change to one perk for an entirely different class and subclass feels sloppy and careless and like Bungie is phoning it in here. I started playing just a bit before TTK and this is honestly the first time I've felt this way about anything Bungie has done, even about changes I wasn't a big fan of. What I would very much like to see is a rollback on these changes. And then, if you decide that these other perks all really should have been nerfed after all, do it on purpose and show us why you didn't think so two weeks ago, but you do now. I'll still probably disagree, but I can handle that. At least it won't be "Whoops, oh well, deal with it. Maybe we'll fix it eventually or maybe we'll just leave it this way, or something in between." That feels bad. Realistically it won't stop me from buying Destiny 2, but if that's really how this ends up it will absolutely put me off buying Silver until then, something my wife and I have done for most, if not all events. And it'll have me going into D2 with significantly less trust for Bungie, less tolerance for future issues, and less motivation to spend on extras.

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          • For the most part, I like the hotfix changes. Here are the things I don't like or think could be modified - I don't like it that the extra sidearm ammo acquired from special crates persists through death. Sidearm ammo should be reset to the base ammo on respawn. - I'm definitely disappointed about the hungering blade bug that is affecting many other health regenerating gear perks and abilities. I think it definitely should be fixed soon, even if it means reverting the change made to hungering blade. - I was surprised by the change to Truth. I think the steam or the patch notes should have included a better description of why the change was needed. - I don't feel that auto rifle damage was buffed enough

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          • Edited by Ambo: 2/17/2017 4:41:26 PM
            [b]Like:[/b] The handcannon changes Pulse rifle changes Low Rof auto buff [b]Hate[/b] Bladedancer nerfs: Come on now, you nerfed it because of [u][b]ONE GUY?![/b][/u] And to think it actually needed a buff, but you just nerf it instead. Thunderstrike changes: as usual, you go completely overboard. You could have kept the base range the same and just slightly reduced the range bonus granted by amplitude, but you just had to butcher it. As a Stormcaller main, I feel that all you really had to do was just reduce the range bonus from Amplitude a little bit. #WarlockLivesMatter Truth Nerf: Completely unnecessary. Nobody even complained about it. Special Ammo Nerf: I can't even imagine what you were thinking. You could have simply nerfed shotguns, but then you decide to punish ALL special weapons, including snipers and fusions, to lose ammo on death. Now everyone runs a sidearm because of this very poor decision. Bottom line is, you made some very poor decisions in thinking out this patch, and many of the nerfs were uncalled for.

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          • This patch is garbage I was I primary user to begin with and only used special when needed. Let's see here blade dance trash now, truth ,voidwalker F *cking sidearms everywhere there is no diversity of you can not just switch weapons, but hey you can get special every minute only to have some d bag camping waiting for you to come with nothing to defend your self with. You may as well have dropped all the weapons and given us sticks to poke at each other with for real I am about to go outside for God's sake when I know damn well I would get beat for dancing like an idiot and taunting people. Fix this trash. No rush game. I am fairly certain I seen a titan making coffee in his bubble waiting for people to kill good thing WOTM has sooooo much replay I just want to run it over and over again and by over and over I mean doing the same part over because it People can't get there crap together for a whole hour to finish without raging out. TTK was far better in everyway I will deal with snipers and shottys all day over this. So much for not "nerfing it all to the ground"

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          • Well from my experience I have been enjoying destiny again. I'm rarely killed by idiots who charge right at me with a shotgun. Now i do believe the class nerfs were mostly unwarranted but i like how gun play is now. Thats just my opinion

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          • Edited by jr240483: 2/17/2017 4:34:04 PM
            well i definitely liked the special ammo economy. it made shotgun abuse a thing of the past and what i really liked is the both the nerf to shinobu's vow & the reduction of universal remote's mag. what i didnt liked was the nerfing to hungering blade which made its super let alone its class even weaker to use which of course triggered a domino effect to other health regen abilities. [b]the other was that the special ammo changes was also applied to the mayhem playlist as well when the hotfix notes clearly stated that the changes was not going to effect mayhem.[/b] what needs to change is a lot of things. first is to undo the health regen changes, especially to hungering blade , cause there are people who believe that the devs wanted to nerf all health ren abilities besides hungering blade. the same to special ammo for mayhem playlist. the other is that their also need an ammo reduction to 3 as well as an ammo reserve reduction for high impact shoguns like matador , conspiracy theory d and party crasher. especially if the special economy changes. the other thing and most important for primaries is the removal of both counterbalance and high calibur rounds from all pulse rifles. while the nerfs were a step in the right direction, they also reduced the perk's effectiveness for other primaries. its even worse for the pulse class of clever dragon, grasp of malok & waltz. even with the ammo & RoF reduction, you still get stunlocked at optimal ranges even if you get the drop on them. eventually people will return to them,especially if other primaries get nerfed so the next change that needs to happen [b]which is the most important one is about consistency with the perk roll tree for pulse rifles. for right now on every pulse roll, you must either have counterbalance on the gun or dismantle it. its pretty much what shot package was for shotguns. like it or not, THOSE PERKS NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM ALL PULSE RIFLES & ITS NEED TO BE DONE ASAP!![/b]

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          • I like that it finally encouraged me to stop playing Destiny for a while so I can just focus on other games. I mean, there was really nothing left for me to do anyway really but this sealed the deal for me to take some time off from this game. Not even because of the changes themselves per se but the demonstration by Bungie that yet again, they'll just listen to the crying plebs who don't know how to counter shotguns and that all you guys care about is crucible. Shotguns have now had 10 or 11 nerfs.....yeah, go read some more Reddit Bungie, it's really working out for you. Aside from the shotgun/special ammo nerf, you made other nerfs (the intentional ones) that make no sense whatsoever. Good job guys.

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          • The special ammo economy changes were, in my opinion, exactly what pvp needed. Being able to engage people effectively with a primary without constantly getting run over by shotgun warriors is a nice change of pace. However, the change to health regen and the blink nerf were not requested, at all. I have no idea why they were implemented, or who thought they were good ideas in the first place, but I'm sure everyone will agree that they should be reversed.

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            • So far I am enjoying the changes for the most part. What I like? - There is more focus on primary combat, and am enjoying toying with guns I have not used in a while to see how it all works and feel. What do you think is good but could be better? - I was hoping Autos would feel a bit better, while they are fun, they just still can not compete with other weapons in a primary battle. What would you change? - Sidearms, I would make it so that when you die with a side are you only get 1 or 2 mags of ammo available on respawn. Keeping all you special is just going to force them to the top of the "Meta" and quickly create an unbalance. This small fix would I think be huge for future enjoyment as you know as well as I you will be getting comments about sidearms in mass soon if not already. -Please fox the items you broke with the hungering blade nerf. From the users end of things, this does not create a sense of faith in your product. You know many love Destiny and have put hours and hours in playtime into it. So for us to have this kind of OOPs, to me seems unreasonable. Kudo's for being upfront about it. But I feel if you don't address it and fix it, you will in the end lose out on more people having faith you can provide a quality end product that is well maintained. -last item which is just a pet peeve I have always had, look into a way to at least let a Titan lung during the melee. They have by far the shortest melee range, and it would help just a little if they could lung to extend that a bit. Not talking about making it a warlock sniper melee, but maybe bring it to about as far or 3/4 as far as a hunters. Thanks for all the work you put in, you will never make everyone happy. That is the nature of the beast.

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