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1/26/2017 12:06:31 AM
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Theres always something to fear. Does it bother me that a domestic spy agency could tap my phone, bug my flat, monitor all my actions? Well, only if I catch them at it. Because lets be -blam!-ing honest. By their very nature, spy agencies arent meant to play by the rules. They should be able to watch whoever the -blam!- they want in their own backyard. If they couldnt, they wouldnt be much -blam!-ing use. If I, as a regular person, was to catch them though, that would indicate extreme sloppiness on their part.
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  • By there very nature spy agencies are supposed to spy on foreign powers and run counterintelligence domestically not carry out intelligence operations on there own citizens. Targeting specific people in relation to threats to National Security is one thing but just spying on everyone wholesale is another entirely and it should worry everyone because if people think they're being watched they will stop speaking and thinking freely.

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  • [quote]not carry out intelligence operations on there own citizens.[/quote] They dont. They have the ability to watch you wander around your house in your pants [i]if they want to[/i] but unless you've given them damn good reason, they dont. Thats a waste of time. These arent voyeuristic idiots.

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  • Key being unless you give them a reason right? Alright sure if you trust the government enough to not violate your rights like an underage schoolgirl at the drop of a hat for whatever arbitrary reason then i guess you really are fine so long as you've got nothing to hide you've got nothing to fear.. . privacy is for criminals.

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  • If its a choice between them being violated by a guarding entity, or a malicious one, I'll settle for the former. Necessary evil. If they're doing their job properly in any case, you'll never know. C'est la vie.

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  • [quote]Because lets be -blam!-ing honest. By their very nature, spy agencies arent meant to play by the rules. They should be able to watch whoever the -blam!- they want in their own backyard.[/quote] You consider that a good thing? If we've learned anything, it should be that citizens should be slow to trust their government, especially when it's acting in secret. [quote]If they couldnt, they wouldnt be much -blam!-ing use.[/quote] That's another part of the issue. We have no reason to believe that these mass surveillance programs have prevented an attack. Not one. And if they have, that means it was done secretly and likely illegally and unconstitutionally.

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  • [quote]You consider that a good thing? If we've learned anything, it should be that citizens should be slow to trust their government, especially when it's acting in secret.[/quote] I consider that a necessity. If a domestic spy agency cant rule its own roost because its bound and gagged by rules and regulations, what good is it? You think foreign agents and terrorists are going to also play by the rules? [quote]That's another part of the issue. We have no reason to believe that these mass surveillance programs have prevented an attack. Not one. And if they have, that means it was done secretly and likely illegally and unconstitutionally.[/quote] Yes, if they catch someone who potentially has information on other foreign agents/terrorists and/or plots, the best thing they can do is parade this person in front of your face to assure you they are doing their job. Totally wouldnt compromise parallel investigations or send other agents/terror cells fleeing out of their reach. Of course they ride roughshod over rules and conventions. They have to, because thats what enemies of the state do. But sure, if you want to hand the initiative to ISIS et al we can just keep having a 9/11 scale attack every year. Sounds great.

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  • "Yes, if they catch someone who potentially has information on other foreign agents/terrorists and/or plots" Is all well and good when that is what is strictly in relation to however the danger is in as of recently this sophisticated surveillance can and will be used on everyone for everything including civilian criminal cases, background checks and irs audits, really any government agency for any cause the government pursues. "the best thing they can do is parade this person in front of your face to assure you they are doing their job. Totally wouldnt compromise parallel investigations or send other agents/terror cells fleeing out of their reach." This is fair enough but I can't personally help but think it's a overused for not telling us everything even important things they should and that believing it all the time without any questioning is naive. Lied to us before alot.. "Of course they ride roughshod over rules and conventions. They have to, because thats what enemies of the state do." I understand intelligence is basically criminal activity, it is literally the practice of circumventing and subverting the law i understand that. But that needs to be reserved for enemies of the state and for foreign actors not citizens citizens are treated and looked at with the same level of scrutiny and disregard for civil liberties our society isnt as free as it was and as they say liberty for security deserve neither.

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  • Has there ever been a case where the NSA or CIA popped up saying "Yo we were spying on this d00d, and found this stuff out"? Nah. Their priorities are stopping terrorists blowing people up, counter-intelligence and whatnot. They'll land themselves in a world of hot water if they overstep their mark. I dont doubt the Government gives them the benefit of a blind eye, but the "rules" are there for the government to slap them down if they step out of line, i.e the top example. If a spy agency [b]is[/b] involved in such a mundane case (rare but can happen), things will often have been done by the book anyway.

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  • https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveillance-powers-his-way-out “if analysts stumble across evidence that an American has committed any crime, they will send it to the Justice Department,” "Information that was collected without a warrant—or indeed any involvement by a court at all—for foreign intelligence purposes with little to no privacy protections, can be accessed raw and unfiltered by domestic law enforcement agencies to prosecute Americans with no involvement in threats to national security." I don't know if you heard about this but it is not just troubling but its like playing with fire while riding down a slippery slope in a wicker sled to a bottomless chasm. Our intelligence agencies dont act above the government they act with it they are its extra legal arm. The real danger isn't if they overstep their bounds the danger is if the government oversteps its bounds evermore into the lives of its citizens. It doesn't really matter why, Americans have the right to be seen as innocent by their government till they are proven guilty and that includes not looking at them like they've committed a crime when they haven't done anything. This system of surveillance and laxed restraints around it that are buiding up are not just going to be undone when people start feeling oppressed by it because by then it will be too late.

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  • Honestly, I doubt they'd bother with petty stuff. If they uncovered a murderer or serial tax dodger I expect that would be when they exercise that power. And would you blame them?

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  • Yes actually i would because that's not what it's supposed to be for and it breaks the assumption of Innocence. And again you're just assuming they won't use it for petty things but the problem is that they can and might. Our society is a contract and if that contract can be disregarded carelessly then it's worthless.

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  • If they use it for petty things, half your college population is -blam!-ed lol.

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