^ Part 1 They say balance is utopia while it's proven to be the contrary. It's the false idea of balance that is utopia: "Pick any weapon or sub class and perform at the top of your ability". This is Bungie's idea of weapon usage. They want all weapons being equally used and effective. To realize this idea they have been issuing patches based on weapon usage statistics (and TTK statistics? I don't recall) without taking Destiny's DNA into account. The lack of context based patching resulted in the current subclass and weapon hierarchy. [b]The issue is as follows:[/b] 1. Shotguns are under powered. 2. Snipers are under powered. 3. Primaries are both under powered as imbalanced regarding skill ceiling; e.g. Legendary Hand Cannons take little skill while being more rewarding than their exotic counter part, not to mention their lack of range, accuracy and effective Time-to-Kill. Someone replied to me with a less aesthetic/readable post for as far as writing goes, but he has opened my eyes to the degree of failure of Bungie's Crucible Patching policy: (Original post by user: kellygreen2) "There are three kinds of lies. Lies. Damned Lies....and statistics. Statistics are ALWAYS applicable. The problem with using statistics is that they have to actually be MEASURING what you are assuming they're measuring (Garbage in, Garbage out).....and you have to use them intelligently. In other words, you have to actually UNDERSTAND what it is that they are saying to you, and how to respond to that message. The Sandbox team has failed on both counts because they've been operating from the TERMINALLY flawed (and frankly stupid) perspective that you have a ***balanced*** weapon system when you have ***equal*** usage of all weapon classes. So any weapon that is ***overused***is presumed to be ***overpowered*** and gets nerfed. That's STUPID, because it fails to take into account that a system can be balanced...and not be equal. In the life sciences there is the notion of "homeostasis". Its how living organisms maintain internal conditions within the narrow range that is necessary for life.....despite widely varying external conditions. So if the external conditions aren't balanced....then you have to have a counterbalancing response in the OPPOSITE direction to the stressor in order to RESTORE balance. Example. If its freezing outside. You're going to put on warm clothing to reduce heat loss, and your body is going clamp down on blood vessels to do the same ( which is why you have to pee so often when its cold) , as well as crank up your metabolism to generate more heat. IF YOUR BODY DOES NOT MAKE THIS ****UNBALANCED**** RESPONSE SOMETHING IS WRONG. If Its not "up"....then its DOWN....and you'll start to become hypothermic. Likewise in balancing a shooter game. IF THE MAPS ARE UNBALANCED AND THEREFORE PROMOTE ONE PLAY STYLE OVER ANOTHER (CLOSE COMBAT IN YEARS ONE AND THREE, SNIPERS IN YEAR 2) IF THE WEAPONS BEST SUITED FOR THOSE CONDITIONS ARE ****NOT**** BEING OVERUSED, THEN IT MEANS SOMETHING ELSE IN THE GAME IS BROKEN. Iow, it means that those weapons have actually been made underpowered. Which is exactly what has happened with each one of these ill-considered nerfs. Bungie---because they were using stats in a way that was clumsy and foolish----wound up nerfing weapons that were overused, but not overpowered...... ...and wound up rendering them underpowered (breaking them), in an effort to equalize their usage in a situation where their usage should have never been equal to begin with. A problem only made worse by my having to listen to Jon Wiesnzewski pat himself on the back for having successfully accomplished something that is so phenomenally stupid and short sighted. In a game where the map design ethic is so slanted, the LAST thing you ever want to see is all weapon classes seeing equal usage. Because it means you have a broken game." [b]And we continue..[/b] What he said is accurate. They have failed to patch correctly based on relevant information. If you want to improve a game, you should LOOK at your game and UNDERSTAND what you want changed and WHY you want or perhaps do not want that. (Sandbox Team) [i]"As we wage wars in our playtest labs, we’re taking a lot of things into account: [b]player data[/b], your [b]feedback[/b], and our own gameplay experiences. [/i]" The one thing that killed progress the past 16 months, is the one thing that will do it again this time. In no way am I convinced they've seen the light when you continue to base patches of player data. Not just that but also the fact that they've never interpreted community feedback correctly before. They nerfed shotguns and Exotic handcannons while all they had to do was fix the bugs that existed, and buff the other less significant weapons to an acceptable level. So unless they have realized this, this one sentences worries me a lot. So far, no reason to be excited.. (Sandbox Team) [i]"We’ve heard the conversation about, and felt for ourselves, Shotgun dominance (Yes, we see you Matador 64), but we feel strongly that our goal shouldn’t be to nerf them into the ground."[/i] So, the only problem I have with this part of the post, is the fact that they aren't ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure. For me to be confident they've learned form the past, it should've said: [i]"We feel that in no way the matador should be nerfed at all."[/i] It's a fact that the matador isn't over powered, because the map designs are so close quaters and shotguns are designed to be much stronger than the current meta, they should actually be much better. Especially if you take the probable best state for Destiny's mechanics into account; Year 1's TTK fitted much better than Year 2 and 3. Most people that disagree with this statement often are misinformed and don't take the possible fixes for Year 1 issues into account, which is essential for my statements merit. So far, I am disappointed in their approach. They could've taken some time to inform you why matadors shouldn't be nerfed, why the weak state of primary weapons and their Time-to-Kill is the reason the Matador reigns supreme; because of related design failures within the weapon hierarchy. Not only are they now implying that they are doing something radical by not nerfing the matador, but they are also keeping you in the dark regarding the nature of their choice. This all helps towards an uninformed community that struggles to understand the important aspects. I am talking about the general of players, I know other people that understand the game pretty good and see where Bungie is missing the point Overall, I am convinced of their good intentions because I have to. I love this game and I love it's players. This entire thread is about the hopes for Bungie's improvement of the understanding of the game, because of they have the Year 2 / Year 3 mindset for Destiny 2, this franchise might see a rough ending sooner than expected. To be honest, I don't think It'll come that far, but you never know... [b]More context on weapon balance...[/b] What in CS:GO makes the shotgun not useful in almost all situations is what makes the shotgun useful in many situations in Destiny. Because of map design and the way movement works. If shotguns in CS:GO were to be buffed, they would be able to compete with the SMG archetype which should never be the case. The stability of the hierarchy is ruined when changes on archetypes are implemented without looking at the context of the entire spectrum of weapons. This is what happened with Destiny. The intentions of the developers in my eyes were good but the changes have resulted in the opposite of what is desirable for the players. This has everything to do with their view on what balance is and how their approach to issues: Doing the exact opposite of what they should do to achieve their goals. Those who support the “Shotguns are the problem in Year 3, nerf them instead of buffing primary weapons” argument specifically often disregard the context and don’t give correct premises behind their conclusion regarding which weapons must be addressed to solve the problem of the primary weapons. They don’t bring the evidence to support their claim. Duncan “Thorin” Shields has made a video about weapon balancing within Counter Strike: Global Offensive. I wouldn’t recommend those whose first FPS game is Destiny to try and translate what he says to Destiny. Don’t try to give your own interpretation of this video and somehow relate it to my words. I am mentioning that video because of the way you have to look at balancing weapons. To put the following quote within its context you should know that before he said this he gave an explaination of the whole situation followed by an example to justify the conclusion. “When you look at the premises notice how I break the premises down before I go to the examples and I’ll make sure the examples fit into those premises. That’s how you got to look at the game if you to balance it otherwise you’re going to make a change here that doesn’t fit in line with your own balance philosophy and therefore another area of the game doesn’t make sense now.” Duncan Shields, 2015