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12/11/2016 10:41:53 PM
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Should we keep failing companies/industries afloat because of the number of jobs?

Yes

54

No

282

Look at something like the coal industry. It's old technology and bad for the environment, but we still pander to states with big coal industry because jobs. Cleaner, renewable energy won't take off until these old Industries are finally dead. We shouldn't keep them artificially afloat.

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  • If you cut subsidies for failing companies, green energy would die out practically overnight. The entire industry is held afloat by government loans and subsidies because it simply isn't viable or profitable today.

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    • [b] [/b]

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      • Whatever happened to compromise in politics? All the liberals in this thread want Renewable energy or nothing. All the conservatives want coal or nothing. Did everyone just forget that natural gas is a thing? It burns clean and is efficient, to keep the liberals happy. And it keeps people employed to operate the drilling rigs, to keep the conservatives happy. Coal is an ancient technology we've been using since the industrial revolution, and like all old tech they eventually get replaced by something newer and better. Hell if we weren't wasting money keeping the coal industry afloat we might've had viable fusion reactors by now.

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      • I see you're too scared to comment on my other comment so I'll tell you why you're misleading people or how I mean. You're misleading people by acting like coal is a failing industry of natural causes. It's not it's failing because of heavy government regulation and even Obama admitted he was trying to put them out of business. Green energy is failing of natural causes and hasn't gone under because of government subsidies. So basically with your logic you should be pro coal and anti green energy but you're pushing your agenda by trying to mislead an uneducated audience

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        • Edited by Cultmeister: 12/14/2016 8:36:27 AM
          It's fine saying that the coal industry needs to die, but what are we going to do with the skilled labour that we lay off? Renewable energy won't immediately swell to fill the gap, and some places are kinda reliant on the coal industry to stay alive. In the 80s Margaret Thatcher closed the coal mines in the UK, but because many towns were actually built around giving miners homes nearby, the thousands of people who lived there suddenly had no other jobs to go to and the towns had no income. Some areas are still affected by that today, 30 years later, with high levels of poverty and unemployment, despite changes and improvements in the energy sector since then.

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          • "Efficient"

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            • Depends on the situation. A large amount of lost jobs leads to a huge loss of tax revenues through income and consumption taxes. Theres a sort of domino effect to it if left unchecked as unemployed people spend less money, meaning less goods produced which leads to even less work and finally back to even less consumption. The problem with industries like coal is that there are some communities that revolve around its production, like a village of coal miners next to a mine. If the mine was to suddenly shut down it would likely ruin the town. The workers would need to move out to find more work but would be stuck having to buy a new house and getting peanuts from selling their now worthless houses. If an industry like that is to be replaced or closed down it would likely require some form of government aid to allow the transition.

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            • No, but considering the government bailouts that have happened in the past, it doesn't matter if we should or not or what the motivation is. If it fits someone's agenda, it's going to happen.

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            • No industry should artificially be kept afloat. If it's failing, then it should be left to fail.

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              • [quote] Cleaner, renewable energy won't take off until these old Industries are finally dead. We shouldn't keep them artificially afloat. [/quote] Oh the irony, renewable energy isn't taking off anytime soon because it's not as economically competitive as current conventional forms of energy including coal. Wind, solar, geothermal, ethanol and hydro are all artificially kept afloat and still arent as cost effective, reliable and scalable.

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                • Although I chose no, this part of your post is wrong. [quote]Look at something like the coal industry. It's old technology and bad for the environment, but we still pander to states with big coal industry because jobs.[/quote]

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                  • Hydrocarbons are the only viable power source at the moment. Nuclear works great but a certain political party won't allow new reactors to be built. Wind and solar have been a complete joke so far.

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                    • Edited by DTL: 12/13/2016 2:31:15 PM
                      1
                      Industry is ever evolving. And in turn, so are the businesses that drive it. Meaning, either an area of business finds a way to adapt to industrial change and remain afloat.. or they don't, die out, and make way for someone who will. There was a time when railroads were the monopoly in transportation. And they employed lots and lots of people. Then came cars and airplanes and suddenly railroads were forced to adapt or die. So they found a niche that kept them in business and down scaled. And yes.. laid off a whole lot of people in the process. But those jobs didn't disappear.. they shifted to a different industry. And the same will happen no matter what company or area of business we're talking about. The thing about business is that as long as there's money out there to be made.. you can bet your sweet ass that someone will find a way to capitalize on that opportunity. And if one corporation.. or even an entire section of industry fails.. the void will be filled almost immediately by someone else. And they will provide the jobs that were "lost" by the transition. The workers will just have to adapt as well and learn a new trade to fill them. So, no. I don't believe in bailouts. I think doing so disrupts the natural cycle of industrial progress.

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                      • Nope, also welfare and the minimum wage should be removed

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                        • Edited by Britton: 12/12/2016 6:24:49 PM
                          We should be funding fusion research.

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                          • Use the coal

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                          • The coal industry is a bad example. It's not failing in that it's operating in the red. It's more that coal isn't quite where we wanna be. Something operating in a deficit though should totally be looked at though.

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                            • Its what your God Obama did.

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                            • But... free market coal is the cheapest energy option (in most places) and the government [u]is[/u] in the process of trying to kill it?

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                              • Edited by Gladlin: 12/12/2016 11:31:13 PM
                                Actually the coal industry has introduced cleaner technology to drastically reduce their environmental impact. While it started out as the dirtiest, it has actually become one of the cleaner methods. For the record, the coal industry is not being bailed out by the government. The government basically shut it down. My question, Max, is for a President who came into office with a promise to fix the economy, why does he shut down industries with good paying jobs, end government programs and contracts that a lot of good paying jobs depended on that promised technological advancement? Of all the jobs that were added during his terms, I would be interested to know how many were minimum wage retail/food service jobs?

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                              • Coal isn't solely used at power plants. The cement plant I work at uses coal (from the coal mine they own) as well as natural gas and shredded tires, to heat our kiln. We could get rid of it completely, but the cost of our product would rise. Not to mention the trucks that bring the coal in. TBH, I don't think you have a firm grasp on the totalities of the coal industry and all the different industries that benefit from it. The industry is far from failing. But this makes me wonder, we produce around 3% pollution from our smoke stack. How much nuclear waste does a nuclear power plant produce? Fun facts: there is a power plant in Laughlin, NV that has its coal pumped to it, underground in a slurry, from a mine in North Central Arizona, hundreds of miles away. That same mine also produces coal for a power plant in page, az.

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                                • I didn't like the stimulus and I don't like this

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                                • Edited by DarthBrando: 12/13/2016 5:53:25 AM
                                  you realize 70% of businesses report a loss for the first 3-5 years of operation right? what do you define as "failing business" an what is criteria for failing----> those two are important because if profits are your only gauge---> Every US industry would be shut down and replaced by; chinese industry industry in taiwan and singapore mexican and latin american industry russian and african industry and in that order on most to least profits vs operational costs

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                                • Huh, I actually agree with Max

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                                • Nah, that's some Atlas Shrugged shit. If a business is worth keeping, it should succeed.

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                                • Knocking out a dead business opens up space for others to set up shop and replenish the dying jobs with new ones. Like how any collapse of the coal industry would see many businesses investing jobs in other energy sources. The worst you can do is break even with jobs by killing a dying business.

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