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originally posted in:The Ashen Conflux
originally posted in: The Identity of Dredgen Yor
Edited by exalted_lemonade: 10/24/2016 10:27:09 AM
23
Just no. The grimoire regarding the Titan (I'm not spelling his name too much frustration) is vague and unclear. Also the timeline is wrong in regards to Yor's actions. Titan dude (that's what I'm calling him) existed before and during the building of the city, and dies early city age. Yor was around after the city was built and after the crucible was formed. If you know anything then you should have realized that the crucible was created after twilight gap by shaxx (two x's?). Yor was around after twilight gap and Titan dude died around six fronts. With the time line cleared up you still have misinformation. The thorn card depicts a warlock holding the gun in an upright position, he has no cloak it's just a warlock. Also you missed the warlock figure that is sold in the Bungie store that had thorn as its exotic. For hunters they have the general idea of hunters with hand cannons, Yor's cloak, and the artifact. Titan evidence- a card that had a SIMILAR name but wrong timeline. Warlock evidence- 1) grimoire card depicts warlock 2) action figure has thorn as exotic 3) (not mentioned above) warlocks are known for turning away from the light. Hunter evidence- 1)hunters with hand cannons is a staple of the class 2) Yor's cloak that says he killed phanin (VoG dude) but nothing about taking it from him 3) Yor's rose that is an artifact for hunters. P.S. I know some artifacts are of other classes but with the presented evidence I highly doubt this is the case. Edit- pulling borderline nonexistent strings to create a new theory is not how theories should be made. I'm basing my theory (which has stood since day one) off of solid evidence and not vague references. Directly on the grimoire card itself is a warlock, and to disregard the original source material would be ridiculous. I personally vouch for him (Yor) being a warlock. Also Titan dude (still calling him that) has multiple suicide like missions before the walls even came up. This is why he is a legend like the iron lords (who almost all died expect for two) and the risin who where precursors to the guardians. Being a legend means you've died a heroic death worth being re-told. nobody is a living legend and stays that way for long, especially in war. With nothing but vague references (which could be a prophecy talking about his death and not him turning away from the light) there is nothing to stand on when the source material and in-game content point in every other direction. P.S 2.0- i'd like to mention that the story started off strong but as the game changed writers it got too convoluted. When I think of this tale I think of the source material and not of in-game or added content. To me the story resides in the grimoire cards titled thorn, and not these newly added ideas of multiple Yor's. This is all my interpretation of the grimoire and how I perceive this game. I just wish more things where spelled out so we're not left to bicker amongst our selfs.
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  • I didn't even read past the part where you said rezzyl died considering there's literally no evidence at all about his death. Don't make assumptions facts.

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  • He told his ghost that if he dies it should run, save itself, and warn the city about the hive. The fact that we know the hive exist proves he died.

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  • Then why is that never said anywhere else? It again says no where how we discovered the hive. I'm pretty sure if we discovered the hive from REZZYLS GHOST it would be said somewhere thanking rezzyl for his sacrifice. But there isn't any mention. You have to remember rezzyl isn't just a nobody guardian. He's pretty much the beacon of the city. It would be recorded. Also It's not unheard of that a ghost disobeys orders. It wouldn't be entirely crazy that the ghost followed him in. Again just more assumptions from everyone, nothing concrete until we know more so you shouldn't base assumptions as fact.

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  • Okay, imagine for a moment you're watching Armageddon. Everything is going wrong, everyone is dead, Bruce Willis has his hands on the detonator, ready to blow up the asteroid. He tells his daughter that he loves her. Tears are shed. And then the next shot is him being welcomed back as a hero on Earth. He has to have died. As a titan, as a beacon of the city, he has to have died. For the hive to be taken seriously as a threat, he has to have died. He sacrificed himself so that his ghost could warn the city about the hive, and they could plan and execute a preemptive strike against the hive and the forces of Crota. If he lived, then he would've been with Eris when they went into the pit. If he lived, the hive would've been trivial because clearly one titan was enough to take them all out. If he lived he would've continued fighting, and his heroic deeds would've earned him more than one grimoire card. I could go on, but literally everything points to him having died. It wouldn't even be right otherwise, lorewise or thematically.

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  • He told his ghost that if he dies it should run, save itself, and warn the city about the hive. The fact that we know the hive exist proves he died.

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  • Aside from the Yor debate. You touched on a timeline issue that has always bothered me. I would agree, the crucible was established after twilight gap by Shaxx. And twilight gap is fairly recent history, late city age, after six fronts. But the events of Palamon are in the Dark Age, pre city age. And shin killed Yor in the dark age, possibly even before six fronts and the walls when the existence of the last city was still a story. So how did Yor compete in the crucible?

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  • It's not unheard of for Yor to have existed a long time before. In reality, it's probably very possible, if not [i]likely[/i] that he lived for a very long time, because rarely do heroes turn to darkness quickly and easily, but more often over long periods of time and exposure (this is not destiny specifically, but many heroes-turned-villains in general). Furthermore, there's next to no evidence of Yor being a warlock. Everything that in-game related to Yor has to do with hunters, and although you said that you aren't dealing with in-game things, you should [i]never[/i] overlook anything that is canon. While the card shows a warlock with Thorn, many of the cards have pictures that don't necessarily correspond with the theme, and it's probable that the card either shows a representation of a guardian with the "cleansed" Thorn, or it was just Thorn concept art that was repurposed for the grimoire, and the figurine of the warlock with Thorn is just a representation of the concept art (as the rest of the game's merch is). I just don't think anything points to warlock in terms of story, and saying that there's a warlock in the picture and that warlocks are prone to turn to darkness isn't saying much. A picture doesn't prove anything (as I said, it could be repurposed concept art or a visualization of the "improved" Thorn) and as shown in Rezyl Azzir's card, other classes are prone to corruption as well. Most evidence points to hunter, and it's hard to get around that fact.

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  • And titan is also not using a handcannon (shots small focused bursts to light up the corridor -> auto rifle or pulse) in the grimoire, which you would expect (though not necessarily, sure) from 'Rose soon to be thorn' owner.

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  • So you're saying it's merely a coincidence that both Rezyl and Dredgen went down into the hell mouth and got their light tainted by Xyor?

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  • This is what I thought as well. The destiny lore is very vague and that leads to people making big assumptions that are more often than not, wrong. Also do you know where it says Dredgen Yor kills Pahanin? I would like to read it.

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  • The Cloak of Dredgen Yor's item description

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  • There's no evidence to Rezyl's death anywhere in the grimoire. Additionally, no one knows how long Guardians live for. Saladin was around since before the City was built, and he's still alive today. The similar wording between the GF: Thorn cards and the Rezyl Azzir cards, as well as the fact that Rezyl encountered Xyor (who prophesied that his Light would one day fade), strongly indicate that he became Dredgen Yor.

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  • Dredgen Yor became Dredgen Yor [i]after[/i] the crucible was invented though. Rezyl met the hive hundreds of years before that happened.

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  • Where does it say that Dredgen became corrupted after the Crucible was invented?

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  • Well former Dredgen Yor came to power in the crucible. He wasn't corrupted at that time.

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  • But how do you know?

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  • Edited by Hangdoc: 10/24/2016 5:15:29 AM
    It is assumed that it happened before because I doubt that anyone would let an evil serial killer be a part of the crucible. It just makes more sense.

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  • I mean, Dredgen Vale and Dredgen Bane are clearly harnessing the Darkness by wielding recreations of the original Thorn, yet they remain. Yor's murders of Pahanin and Thalor were probably the last straw, but he could have mastered the Crucible before that.

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  • It's hard to tell because Dredgen Yor is never referred to by any other name than Dredgen Yor.

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  • Well

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  • Not to toot my own horn, but I theorized this once I read the very first Rezyl Azzir card back in TTK. Rezyl Azzir: The Whisper and the Bone only gives further credence to the theory

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  • Ruin....we meet again.

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  • We do indeed

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