JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

OffTopic

Surf a Flood of random discussion.
9/1/2016 4:31:29 AM
25

The strange world of American Liberals

[spoiler]*A Wild Gringo has appeared*[/spoiler] Hola #offtopic. While I see plenty of politically charged posts on Offtopic fairly often. Offtopic is a generally Conservative place so it is not uncommon to see a post about anything from how awful BLM is to why guns don't kill people. Not to say that there are only Conservative posts, but just a noticeable majority. There are also a few outspoken Libertarians out there (you know who you are) and a few over the top SJW's too (Not naming anyone but a certain 16th president and queen's daughter come to mind) along with the Liberals like myself, admittedly. Now this was not just so we can argue about who is right, the point of this post is to show a strange movement in American mainstream politics that veers towards the Authoritarian. I just wanted to preface as I may be biased, though I will try not to and simply use personal experience to help add to my point. If for whatever reason you do not know what I am talking about, I will explain. If you already know about Authoritarianism and neoliberalism just skip the spoiler below. That being said I will still refer to it so you may want to read it to have it fresh in your head [spoiler]Politics (very simplified) van be split up into a sort of grid. The top, bottom, left, and right are all different political ideologies that just sort of outline a whole viewpoint. For example the horizontal X axis represents economic beliefs. While the vertical Y axis represents social beliefs. The left side is [i]Liberalism[/i]. It is the economic belief that, generally, Government is necessary to regulate a healthy economy. This sort of ideal is represented by FDR's "New Deal". It also hinders on the belief that money should move "up" the economic food chain, so the consumers are given money, which they spend and it makes its way up, being passed on to everyone until it hits the top of CEO's and whatnot who in turn create more products for consumers to buy and so on. The right side is [i]Neoliberalism[/i]. It is the economic belief that, generally, Government regulation hinders a healthy economy. It also hinders on the belief that money should move "down" the economic food chain, so money is given to wealthily CEO's and whatnot who in turn invest in companies and create products from which workers are needed to create and distribute and they get paid from the wealthy and they become consumers who buy goods and so on. This sort of ideal is represented by Reagan's "Reganomics" or "Trickle Down Economics. The top side is [i]Authoritarianism[/i]. It is the social belief that humans are less useful as individuals than they are as a group. Also that humans have a tendency to hurt ourselves and others, and strong government intervention helps to stop this, and it is worth loosing some rights to do so. The bottom side is [i]Libertarianism[/i]. It is the social belief that humans are more useful as individuals than as a group. Also that the most important thing to a human is his freedom so there should be no or very little government intervention in people's social lives that restrict their freedoms. Here in America, the top right corner is occupied by [i]Conservatism[/i] (and the Conservative Republican Party). The left is occupied by [i]Liberalism[/i] (and the Liberal Democratic Party). The bottom right goes to [i]Libertarianism[/i] (and the creatively named Libertarian Party). If you thought that last part was just me sort of rehashing what I already did, but with parties. You would be right, but also notice how I said 3 parties, but there are 4 corners.[/spoiler] Now American politics are a strange and complex beast I will not pretend to fully comprehend. I have glossed it over a fair amount but only because much else isn't necessary to the point I am getting at. With that being said, I have noticed a strange recent trend. You see it has long been established that the Democratic Party was occupied the bottom left area of the political spectrum while the Republican Party occupied the top right. Of course those positions would change with trends and whatnot and people aren't usually glued to their party's stances on 100% of everything. Those placements on the opposite corners of the board were actually pretty close to the middle, with more radical ideals closer to the far edges of the political spectrum, like Communism or Anarchism, never becoming popular. In todays political climate, there has been a strange trend of Liberals (and the Democratic party along with them) becoming more authoritarian. Take that as you will, generally authoritarian movements like Black Lives Matter or Political Correctness, that generally strive for a sort of enforced equality (or their view of it depending upon who you are) are seen as overwhelmingly Liberal. Now that change may not be too strange. Political parties and their popular ideologies tend to shift (which follows which is another question) over time. The weird thing is that there is no alternative. Where a person who believes in both neoliberalism and libertarianism can simply distinguish themselves from a person who believes in neoliberalism and authoritarianism by calling themselves a libertarian instead of a conservative, people who believe in liberalism and libertarianism are just liberals, like those who believe in liberalism and authoritarians. This is reflected by America's political system. Of the 5 major parties (I say major as in the other three have a slight say in close to nothing), there are 3 neoliberal groups and 2 liberal ones. Of the 3 on the right, there is the very authoritarian and neoliberal Constitution Party as well as the prementioned Republican and Libertarian parties. On the left is the prementioned Democratic party and the Green Peace party, whose main focus isn't even an economic or social dilemma but rather with the environment. This means that while the Libertarians can attempt to gain political traction above the Conservatives, there is absolutely no way for a libertarian liberal to separate themselves from the ever growing more authoritarian Democratic Party. [spoiler]So what are your thoughts? Did I waste your time, did you just skip the reading altogether to say something edgy like "libtards" or "-blam!- white people", or do you actually have something interesting/provocative/insightful to say? [/spoiler]

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • "[i]There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.[/i]"-John Adams

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • I don't quite understand the purpose of this post.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • You do realize that both the Democratic and Republican parties are both top right, and have been for a very long time?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    2 Replies
    • That was a well done explanation. The sad part of the whole scenario is it doesn't reflect the intentions of what the people who founded our country wanted the US to become. Our current situation politically has become this twisted monstrous machine. That pits people against each other by labeling them. Its a divide and conquer mentality. The political elite make up some cause or injustice that might befall a certain group. Then magnify it thru the media until before you know it us americans have problems we didn't know existed. The only way for these so called injustices discrimination hardships etc to be fixed ,solved, cured, is to vote for candidate or party A or B. The political elite make us fight each other so that we are distracted from the real issues affecting all of us. As humans we all want the same thing. Happines safety prosperity etc. Politicians cannot provide that. So they distort and spin the truth to get your vote. It truly is sad what our political system has become. They jusy want power to control our lives that is the bottom line. You can't control a group unless its weak and divided and not focused to the threat coming at it. Politicians are skilled at doing just that. They polarize us and make us fight each other when it should be all of us uniting together to change this country to make it better for everyone not just a few elite.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      3 Replies
      • I started reading it in a heavy mexican accent after seeing the username and then I couldn't stop laughing or taking it seriously.[spoiler]Disclaimer: I was not laughing at what you wrote. I was not laughing at mexicans or mexican accents. I was laughing at a specific voice fabricated in my own imagination that caused me mirth and a tone of frivolty. Your post was well meditated and properly written.[/spoiler][spoiler]pls no ban ninjas[/spoiler]

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Tldr reported because I'm triggered

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Dismantle American Liberals, yes?

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Sorry, what exactly do you find so authoritarian about the Constitution Party? What do you mean by authoritarian?

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        3 Replies
        • Edited by FallingRayn216: 9/1/2016 10:43:31 PM
          ...

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Authoritarianism!? InB4 revolution!

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Very good explanation here. The polarization is really quite sad, many people here are so unwilling to have a decent debate on real issues and are so unwilling to receive any genuine criticism to broaden their viewpoints. Anything challenging what they say, you get hit with a barrage of angry posts.

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • TL;DR

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • I just don't understand why all political conversation turns into a fight, I just want a civil conversation. [spoiler]im talking about both sides[/spoiler]

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          7 Replies
          • Good read but I disagree with one thing. Liberals and the Democratic party in general aren't [i]becoming[/i] authoritarian, they've always been that way. People are just starting to be more vocal about it because the mainstream media isn't even bothering to hide their bias anymore.

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Ok i wanna point out the political compass is bs. A libertarian left doesnt exist because welfare is authoritarian and an authoritarian right doesnt exist iether because tey would be hypocritical themselves. Further right you are the more you believe in freedom further left more authoritarian you are

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            23 Replies
            • TL:DR

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • You didn't waste your time, it's real and concerning. Polarization and the lack of a middle ground accompanied by the trend of demonizing the other side should scare us all. Instead both sides are digging in their heels.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            • [quote]This means that while the Libertarians can attempt to gain political traction above the Conservatives, there is absolutely no way for a libertarian liberal to separate themselves from the ever growing more authoritarian Democratic Party.[/quote] There's a lot of confusion about stuff like this because the political quadrant is a terrible representation of ideologies.

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

              1 Reply
              • For starters you are talking about social platform of the democratic party. The rights for gays to marry as well as abortion rights are more libertarian than authoritarian. So it is possible to be libertarian liberal

                Posting in language:

                 

                Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                1 Reply
                • Holy wall of text, Batman!

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                • Tl:dr?

                  Posting in language:

                   

                  Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  1 Reply
                  • Not a waste of time.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  • The voters only have themselves to blame.

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  • Well thank you for your opinion I believe that liberals and conservatives are both stupid it's dividing a country that's supposed to be united when I am able to vote I will analyze the facts/state of our country and then make a decision but what I think is stupid about liberals is its mob mentality from what I have seen (feel free to say I'm wrong I'm trying to be unbiased) and conservatives even though I openly agree with most if not all of it I feel like they are handling the situation democrats vs republicans wrong. in short we are all together in this country we are all humans that have the amazing ability to share our thoughts and ideas but our beliefs should not start conflicts among our selves.[spoiler]i do like a good debate tho.[/spoiler]

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  • I just wasted my time reading this, but I'm not from your country, so I guess it's my own fault

                    Posting in language:

                     

                    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

                  You are not allowed to view this content.
                  ;
                  preload icon
                  preload icon
                  preload icon