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Edited by TFL Washington:
9/1/2016 3:20:12 AM
56
The cycle of subclass nerfs...
So this is something that, for some reason, some people still haven't caught on to. I don't how though, but oh well. I'll just explain it.
Firstly, I'm going to use Strikers and Stormcallers as they seem to be the flavor of the month for the minority that wants nerfs. This isn't going to be some huge argument defending them and saying they don't need nerfed, although I will say this this one time, they don't need nerfed. They're balanced.
This is just explaining to people why asking for any subclass nerfs is a bad idea. Especially for ones that are at the k/d that Bungie wants them at. Sunsingers pre June update and Strikers now.
Also before I begin, I want to ask, do you really think asking for and getting those nerfs is really going to make you happy and satisfied with the state of the Crucible? Because from our end, the people who don't want nerfs or the majority, it looks like you guys will never be happy. It's been nearly 2 years of constant nerfing and you guys still aren't satisfied.
For example, you all whined and complained about Sunbreakers and get them nerfed and now Titans play Striker. Now you're whining about them. What do you want from Titans? Same for Warlocks. You all whined about Sunsingers and got them nerfed and now they play Stormcaller. What do you want from Warlocks? This goes for Hunter as well. You all complained about Bladedancer and got it nerfed and now people complain about Golden Gun. What do you want from Hunters?
Now onto my main point. So if you are asking for nerfs to a specific subclass, that's a bad idea for 2 reasons.
1. You've clearly proven already that that won't satisfy you. Nothing will. You'll just keep complaining so I say, get over it.
2. You are just fueling the fire for future nerfs to one of your own subclasses.
The nerfs to subclasses have always gone in order. Hunters, Titans, Warlocks, Hunters, Titans, Warlocks, Hunters, Titans, Warlocks etc...
See? It just keeps going around like clockwork. We need to break this nerf cycle. Otherwise, soon, we'll be playing CoD with boring and generic characters. The solution is to ask for buffs, hell even beg for them. Because if this cycle continues and people keep complaining, no one will ever be happy and Destiny will no longer have classes. Just the same generic character everyone plays as.
Edit: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/212113158/0/0/1link[/url]
Lol
This guy thinks I'm whining and worried about Titans. Can someone please tell me at what point in time this post was biased towards Titans?
In fact, can someone please tell me when I've ever been biased? People that see me around the forums know that I'm not.
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Edited by Fishyb: 9/1/2016 2:42:53 PMPve & pvp need to be separated permanently for their respective balancing. This should of happened day 1. Bungie have proved they CAN do it, they just seem utterly unwilling on the whole. The 2 modes are totally in compatible for balancing supers.
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46 RepliesSome things need to be nerfed though, Hunter are currently too weak in this meta. It's like COD soldiers translated into destiny fighting with space wizards and titanfall robots. I'm not saying I want warlocks and Titans nerfed, it's just that the community has a stigma towards hunters (we all know this to be true) and if Bungie introduced a even somewhat significant buff to hunters the forums would go nuts. For instance flux grendades and fusion are basically the same thing, instead one has arc the other has solar. But for whatever reason, fusion grenades have higher tracking, damage, and stickiness. Not to mention if it misses and you are in the radius it will hurt more and burn over time if they are a warlock. Things like storm caller Melee and super and strikers shoulder charge aim assist (my friend and I have clips of us jumping, the Titan staying on the ground and the SC bringing him up through the air to hit us. ) are simply to powerful compared to Hunters. Hunters have these things going for them: wombo combo(nerfed, but still ok) skip nades,(high risk, high reward, they can be really good, but a lot of times don't even hit when you though them on top of them), that's it. Everything else either has something just like it that was only for hunters that they gave to other classes to make them happy ( hungering blade:cauterize, shade step:TG, etc.) So going back to the original point, they need to buff hunters, but they won't do it, so they only other options is to nerf them which I don't agree with, but it's better than nothing.
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16 RepliesEdited by SilverwindNarga: 9/1/2016 9:30:03 AMIm more pissed off my pve gameplay has to keep changing cause of pvp crybabies who cant stfu and accept they got killed by someone better then them. Ive had it with -blam!-ing nerfs
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8 RepliesI was pissed when Sunbreaker got nerfed, the Flameseeker perk is almost unnoticeable now
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They need to stop nerfing, period. Only buffs in year 3 and start by actually making Hunters relevant again in top level PvP. As an alpha player its been really sad watching the classes and weapons get destroyed in just two years. They are so much less unique and powerful than they were before.
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17 RepliesEdited by SaintSoldier62: 9/2/2016 5:20:43 AMi think its stupid of bungie to try and have everyone at a 1.0 k/d. SBMM 24/7 has taken ALL individuality out of the game. Youre a good player? HA we'll see that when you go up against 4-6 man fire teams every match who have equal or greater skill than you while you must carry randoms who are nowhere near your level against them! i take this as a personal insult from bungie and as a side note for nerfs and buffs on the dumbest things ever. throwing knife, trip mine, blade dancer lunge and BLINK STRIKE MELEE COOLDOWN!? wasnt the POINT of fast twitch supposed to be to just get your melee charge faster? i never saw anything OP about it when warlocks have the same BASE melee range and can get over shields on melee HITS or extra super energy on kills. Its VERY obvious how biased bungie is when it comes to their beloved warlocks
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4 RepliesI played Shadow Priest in WoW from beta until the BC expansion. I have felt what it's like to be playing the top class and then being nerfed to the ground and then being nerfed to oblivion.
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31 RepliesBungie needs to Nerf Strikers. And [u][b]then[/b][/u] they can start buffing all the subclasses back up.
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2 RepliesWait you biased...[spoiler]funniest thing I've seen all week[/spoiler]
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9 RepliesI think the only thing that needs a "nerf" is the fact that strikers and nova bombs can hit through walls
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2 RepliesIve been told by someone using grasp and conspiracy theory that golden gun takes no skill, as well as the other perks in it. Guess what that guy was playing? A storm caller. Yeah, k, golden gun takes no skill, but an auto aiming super that can take out whole teams of 6 up to 2 times with a decent amount of range takes skill?
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1 Replyread enough....warlocks are using voidwalker and stormcaller. thing that makes it so frustrating is sunsinger is still VERY relevant in pve so the warlock class itself doesn't need a nerf, but the pvp damage you can do by spamming a super overkills every other super. please spare me the responses about how its balanced because the warlocks 3 classes outplay every other class simply because they require little to no skill to be effective. necessary nerfs: striker, hammer, all warlock builds are taking advantage of the ability to either completely regenerate health on super...or basically survive more damage than an opponent can deal out before landing their super. waiting until you are a sliver of health from dying and then throwing your super because you know you can't be killed by even a rocket launcher is a sign that it needs changed. those perks have no use outside of pvp. honestly speaking though the classes all need a reboot by the time next year comes around
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3 Replieswell the last round of nerfs clearly showed us that the problem isn't really people wanting nerfs, maybe a small part, but they nerfed things that was never complained about, or talked about. In many cases such as the throwing knife, wasn't even an overused thing. They nerfed it, in my opinion, because they hadn't nerfed it before. Which is a good starting point in determining what's going to be nerfed next. What has yet to be touched in the game. Make a list, it's likely on Bungies todo list as we speak. They may not get everything on that list, but they will eventually get to it.
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1 ReplyAlthough I agree with you sunbreaker needed the nerf if it stayed that way that's all we would see in pvp and no one would play anything else cuase that how powerful it was.
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Bump!!
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1 ReplyBump #makepvpfunagain
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7 RepliesWhile i agree with what you're saying, I just have to point something out . [quote] This is just explaining to people why asking for any subclass nerfs is a bad idea. Especially for ones that are at the k/d that Bungie wants them at. Sunsingers pre June update and Strikers now. [/quote] This is an absolutely horrendous way to balance subclasses because of they insane skill diversity. If a subclass jumps wildly over the 1.0 line (say voidwalker jumped to 1.22), then its a basis to say it needs some kind of nerf. Otherwise, the players in the bottom 80% may not be using the subclass to its fullest (i.e. not using touch of flame + viking funeral firebolts), and they may be dragging the global k/d of the subclass down. But it's in the upper levels, the top 20%, where the imbalance truly starts to show. This is the reason bungie didn't want to nerf firebolts, because overall the subclass had about a 1.0 k/d, so everything was fine, right? Wrong. In top level tournament play, teams not running a sunsinger with ToF + VF firebolts were few and far between, and teams winning without one were fewer and farther between. And remember trials? It was pretty rare that you ran a card and didn't run into at least one team of triple firebolt sunsingers. If Bungie doesn't completely change their balance philosophy, and soon, this game has no hope of survival.
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Edited by cuzzybubba1: 9/1/2016 1:46:41 PMWhat you are saying is completely logical and makes perfect sense, the problem is that the large majority of the playerbase are children and teenagers who have not yet grown to maturity (some never do) and cannot rationalize their own skill or mistakes and have to blame something for their bad play. Take Thorn for example, when it returns people are going to go nuts even if it's balanced and in fact pretty blan at this point I'd take my Finnala's over it mostly. Doesn't matter, they die.. see "Thorn", and flip out because they aren't mature enough to stop and think they made a bad play..etc.. I'm not saying all weapons are balanced although I don't have a complaint and in fact I am dying for a buff on medium ROF Pulses. TLDR: The complaining and whining will never end because this game is T for Teen and people at that age (not all) will find something to blame for their bad time or deaths rather than looking inward at what they did to die. Bungie knows this and it has been so bad they created a f'n artifact to neutralize the minimal DoT that's left just so people have no ground to stand on complaining about Thorn and FIrebolts (both of these needed changes from year 1 and have been).
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I agree with you completely. People need to seriously get over it. Because of this nerfing for PvP the abilities have suffered in PvE. It gets completely annoying when grenades in CoE are so ineffective that only certain ones produce good results and others couldn't blow up a wet paper bag! The Hunter now only has one subclass that has a grenade that can be stuck to an enemy (Bladedancer) preventing me from using Gunslinger trip mines because the Hunter only has one exotic glove option for multiple grenades which is for trip mine grenades. It is hard to get friends to want to completely finish CoE when you have to run it over and over and over. People will always complain when they think they should have been top scorer, should've had that 2.0 K/D, etc. At least in Destiny PvP you have better chances of having those good scoring games and enjoy the combat experience with your friends. In games like Cod and BF I feel that I spend way more time respawning and running to the battle to only die again when I show up as oppose to participating in actual combat for a reasonable amount of time.
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Every so often they should use SBMM to drop people into matches with players that have really low k/d. Or, maybe use bots but don't tell them. That way tryhards could say to themselves, "See, I don't suck so bad after all. Maybe this game doesn't need nerfing as much as I thought."
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11 RepliesI see you mentioned sunbreaker. The super was clearly OP and needed changing, there was no reason to play anything else
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As a Titan, Sunbreaker was too good at the beginning, but Bungie did hit it hard with the initial nerf a month later. Fastest subclass to they ever tried to balance though.
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This post is accurate from what i can remember
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5 RepliesTo be fair most of Bungie's balancing decisions are off the back of game data rather than forum posts. I would suggest that posts containing complaints with no constructive feedback would generally just be ignored.
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4 Repliesum who complains about gg? you know how easy it is to hide from and kill a gg? Most of the time nowadays I'm lucky to get more than 1 or 2 kills with gg (the duration is hella short) unless people recklessly run at me because they don't think I'm quick enough to turn around and shoot em
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4 RepliesWarning! The logic you are using is contagious and may result in an epidemic of rational thought. User discretion is advised!
