originally posted in:Liberty Hub
Loaded post. Yes religious freedom is a right. Survalence on muslima doesnt impede that especially because mosks arent churches for muslims theyer sharia courts. Banning muslims from coming here isnt banning the practice here iether
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Surveillance on the American people is unconstitutional. It's a breach of the 4th amendment, as well as a breach of the 1st to target a religion.
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Edited by UnclePeedee: 8/5/2016 8:07:13 PMIt's not a breach of anything because nobody is preventing them from practicing their religion.
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There is probable cause to scrutinize Muslims. Islam is a belief structure and it is common sense to assume that people who ascribe to the exact same brief structure will tend to think and act in similar manners.
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Except that's not how our justice system, or our Constitution is set up.
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Not true. If white supremacists begin blowing things up and they openly claim they are doing so because of their ideology those white supremacists will be watched. It's called "probable cause". Now if a group of religious fanatics begin blowing shit up.....and beheading people, running, them over with trucks, performing honor killings, shooting up gays in nightclubs, flying planes into buildings or bombing trains then FORGIVE ME but probable cause CERTAINLY exists and watching people who are part of this group is not only legal but common -blam!-ing sense.
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By the way Cruz never said that he said have more police patrol Muslim neighborhoods to deter them from radicalizing
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What does that have to do with anything?
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What me and the other guys were discussing
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Unwarranted is the key word and it's not a religion it's an ideology
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So you think as long as Americans are not having their rights impeached, other things like surveillance and a ban on immigrants are fair game?
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Yes cuz it's not unconstitutional
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Do you not think increased surveillance on a group violates their right to privacy?
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No because there is probably cause. You would have no problem with neo nazists being put under surveillance would you? And most likely they already are. And please stop making believe anyone is banning Muslims from America. As it stands they are refugees coming from war torn and radical states and we have NO -blam!-ING IDEA who they are or what their background is. There is NOTHING wrong with wanting to put a better system in place before accepting people from these places which is exactly what DT has suggested.
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Probable cause applies to individuals. You cannot extend it to an entire group soley based off their beliefs. Unless the Muslim communities are found to be actively conspiring, increased surveillance due to a group's belief is unconstitutional. I never said anything about the ban all Muslims thing, but I'd be happy to debate that too.
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Edited by UnclePeedee: 8/5/2016 8:56:20 PMI will repeat myself: Everything you've said can be countered with 3 little words: The Patriot Act. Not only did Obama keep that incredibly invasive act he actually STRENGTHENED IT. Muslims in this country can sure as SHIT be watched as long at that act(which I don't agree with) is alive and well.
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You are, unfortunately, correct. It would be a shame to see communities with no link to terrorism whatsoever be hounded just because of the way they worship though.