Nope sorry, SBMM is terrible. Not once did you mention the lag or fireteam searches, your only argument was "the lower skilled players matter too" (and yes, I heard your stance on Social/Ranked, but we're focusing on right now), and all of your tests were done solo dropping into games. Good players are good for a reason, they practice, they put time in to improve, and punishing them with a system like the one that is currently in place is a terrible move. Look back to House of Wolves when Crucible was FUN, not necessarily balanced, but FUN, and when SBMM was lax af. No-one complained about lag. No-one complained about getting stomped. I remember FOUR distinct complaint posts on the forum
-Shot Package
-Hidden Hand
-Thorn
-TLW
[Edit: 5- Final Round]
And that was it. No 'bring in SBMM' or 'Bungie make the game easier for me', it was primarily those four topics. And yet Bungie straight up lied to us for four months before saying 'oh right yeah, we added SBMM when TTK dropped'. NO-ONE ASKED FOR IT. You say 'the lower skilled players will quit because they're getting constantly stomped', so tell me, what is the chance for those players to match... Let's say any of the top 5% players in Crucible? Oh right exactly that, 5%. 5 out of 100 games they will get absolute decimated, but that's a tiny amount of time. That's what, average 50 minutes? Out of an average 1000 total minutes of Crucible time for those 100 games at 10 minutes a piece? Yeah, no, they won't quit. Also, CoD does absolutely fine without SBMM, in fact they tried it, and the community were in such an uproar about how bad it was, they reverted it within TWENTY FOUR HOURS.
In a system like this, lower skilled players don't massively improve anyway, it might seem like they do, but if you're making the same mistakes you were making when playing higher leveled players, except SUCCEEDING while doing them, you're going to get conditioned to do them more often because of that gunfight you just won, while flying about for a minute straight since your opponent was too stupid to point upwards and pull the trigger. You don't face players who actually know what they are doing, so you don't learn or adapt to their strategies, you just stay in freaking candy land with all the other players who apparently need coddled because "wahh I don't want to play good players or improve". This system doesn't even encourage you to improve because if you do then you're going to be in the same position as all the other players who have to sweat in red-bar lobbies every game, and hey guess what, [i]no-one finds it fun to play sweaty as shit under 200ms ping every damn game.[/i]
Earlier this week in doubles, I got matched against the same duo fireteam THREE GAMES IN A ROW EVEN AFTER BACKING OUT AFTER EACH GAME. We were all greenbar for maybe 25% of each game. That is unacceptable in this era of technology. I'm not saying I want to get matched up against .4kds every game, I just don't want to have to play under these shitty conditions every game, especially with the abysmal kill times this game has been reduced to. It's not fun to play with/as red bars, it's not fun to sweat continuously, and it's not fun to have to take over a second to kill someone.
Look, I'm all for SOME form of SBMM in Destiny before someone calls me out for wanting to pubstomp every game. I have 876 hours in Rocket League and compete at the same rank as the best of the best, I even matched with someone from the #1 team in EU. But [i]this[/i] SBMM that we have in Destiny now? The shitty, lag-filled, slow, boring Crucible we have now? Nuh-uh.
Edit: Gotta love when people downvote all your posts out of spite without even trying to argue ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Your calculations are wrong. 1. there are 6 opposing guardians on the enemy team (control, clash). If each of them independently can be any one of 5% top players, there is roughly a 25% chance of meeting a top 5 % player in a match. (Equation: 1 - 0.95^6) 2. You mistake ranking for number of games. If top players plays twice as many games as everybody else on the average, there is in fact a 10% chance of a top player to take a given spot on the enemy team. Meaning there is a chance of 47 % of getting matched against at least one of the top 5 % ranked players. Tl;dr wrong math above. There is roughly a 47 % chance of meeting a top 5 % player in a game of control/clash on the opposing team.
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And both of you are wrong because skill is distributed pretty correctly according to a Bell Curve, with a weighting towards the lesser skilled. There are like 10 times as many players in the top 99-95% players, than top 5-1% players. https://m.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/4j338r/how_higher_kds_in_sbmm_equate_to_more_lag_and/
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[quote]1. there are 6 opposing guardians on the enemy team (control, clash). If each of them independently can be any one of 5% top players, there is roughly a 25% chance of meeting a top 5 % player in a match. (Equation: 1 - 0.95^6)[/quote]This [i]would[/i] be correct if you took playlist population into account, your calculations require every player to be searching Control or Clash. However, where do you see most of the top players? 3s/Rumble. Where do you see most of the casuals? 6s. With most of the 5% in Trials/Elim/Salvage/Skirm/Rumble, the Control and Clash playlists are mostly full of the 95%ers, and your chance of facing a 5%er are much lower. [quote]2. You mistake ranking for number of games. If top players plays twice as many games as everybody else on the average, there is in fact a 10% chance of a top player to take a given spot on the enemy team. Meaning there is a chance of 47 % of getting matched against at least one of the top 5 % ranked players.[/quote]This part makes absolutely no sense. Top players are still only capable of playing ONE game at a time, they don't have four arms using two controllers and consoles at the same time.
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Wrt 1. Then just think about the top 5% control players... then my point is valid. 2 no. You are wrong. If the top players play e.g. 20 games a day, and the average player plays 10 games, my point is absolutely valid. Nobody plays all the time, which seems to be your assumption.
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[quote]Then just think about the top 5% control players... then my point is valid.[/quote]And then once again it's invalid. Most of [i]those[/i] "top" players are ELO farmers who go in there with loaded, top-tier 6-man fireteams and barely, if ever, queue solo. Your calculations don't account for fireteams or people who play with at least one other friend, and since Freelance isn't around 24/7 so you can't reliably say that every single person in Control is soloq'ing, they don't accurately add up [quote]You are wrong. If the top players play e.g. 20 games a day, and the average player plays 10 games, my point is absolutely valid. Nobody plays all the time, which seems to be your assumption.[/quote]Alright no, for the sake of this argument let's assume what you said earlier is actually correct and that every single person in Control is dropping in solo (even though this would literally never happen because "muh ELO"). 10 games and then "the average player" gets off of Destiny, another one will take their place. This doesn't make [i]this[/i] average player's chance of running into a 5%er any higher or lower than the last one, all they have done is taken the place of the person who got off...
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This Excellent post, thanks for taking the time to write
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Make a topic out of this reply
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Bump [spoiler]Someone gets it[/spoiler]
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I'm with ya. 100% fact and well said.
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You need to play against people of your own skill level. There is no argument.
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Maybe so. HOWEVER, I do not need to play against people halfway across the world. Referring you back to my entire post. Reread it, take it in, then get back to me.
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Not when we talk about a casual, laggy and unbalanced game that doesn't reward winning.
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Crucible is far worse now than it was year 1. Bungie killed destiny with TTK. Horrible "balance" patches and design changes that drove off a ton of veterans. SBMM is just the final nail in the coffin.
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Edited by tanis38: 5/25/2016 9:42:15 PMI agree 100% with this. I am far from good at Crucible, but I am totally against SBMM. I think that if you put in the time and work, get better at the game, that you should be rewarded by moving up the leaderboard at the end of matches and posting pretty good games. Except that with SBMM, you are "rewarded" by getting moved up invisible brackets we can't see, matched up with better players, and your sense of reward is diminished because you don't see the results of your hard work as often, you just have to constantly be working harder and harder to even compete. And then there is lag and long wait times in orbit on top of that. Fun right?
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The lag is the only valid argument with SBMM. You want to improve? Playing people that pose a challenge is the only way. You'll never improve by stomping on water-heads.
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There is always someone better than you. There will be players better than you with CBMM.
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Bump for CBMM
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If you listened to Mtashed and Deej, you'd know the actual stats. Mtashed actually has experienced it with and without, you haven't. Where's you evidence? All they need is to add a ranked playlist, voila! [spoiler]It's sad that you spent this long on a post. There's a thing called outside. [/spoiler]
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Edited by Zoey: 5/25/2016 8:36:51 PMI have around 27 days of Crucible on my account not counting deleted characters, I've played this game since the beta. I have experienced EVERY SINGLE CONFIGURATION of Crucible since the beta, this is the worst it has ever been. Stats mean absolutely nothing. "These players are raising their KD, these ones are dropping" you realise that has absolutely no ground right? Referring you back to:[quote]In a system like this, lower skilled players don't massively improve anyway, it might seem like they do, but if you're making the same mistakes you were making when playing higher leveled players, except SUCCEEDING while doing them, you're going to get conditioned to do them more often because of that gunfight you just won, while flying about for a minute straight since your opponent was too stupid to point upwards and pull the trigger. You don't face players who actually know what they are doing, so you don't learn or adapt to their strategies, you just stay in freaking candy land with all the other players who apparently need coddled because "wahh I don't want to play good players or improve". This system doesn't even encourage you to improve because if you do then you're going to be in the same position as all the other players who have to sweat in red-bar lobbies every game, and hey guess what, [i]no-one finds it fun to play sweaty as shit under 200ms ping every damn game[/i].[/quote] Also, ranked still wouldn't work without dedicated servers because exactly what we have right now will happen again at the higher ranks. If you aren't willing to have a civil argument, gtfo my post. [quote]It's sad that you spent this long on a post. There's a thing called outside.[/quote]It's sad you're such a hypocrite, it's alright for Mtashed to do what he does (gameplay, video editing, voice recording, etc) but it's sad for ME to make a ten minute post? What even are you, kid?
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Well -blam!-ing said, almost everything you included I have said myself.
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Rant face is on
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Preach
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No one complained about lag? Ye right
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Edited by Killlerschaf: 5/26/2016 3:24:57 AMThe complaints only ever truly surfaced when the IB was around. You can check those threads and everyone basically says the same: "I usually don't have problems with lag, but when I do... It's when the IB is around". There's a reason why it earned the reputation of being the Iron Lagger. Fun fact: SBMM is tuned down in the IB compared to normal playlists, since Y2.