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Edited by Stallcall: 5/6/2016 11:05:36 PM
53

The FDA takes on "Vaping."

The FDA should leave the issue alone.

119

The FDA was right to do this.

313

The FDA needs to go farther (but not a ban)

11

The FDA should ban e-cigs.

33

Results/Other

59

May 5, 2016 The FDA released new rules and regulations aimed at the growing e-cigarette industry. The regulations affect both the sale and production of e-cigs and e-cig "juice," which is the solution used for "vaping." Specifically, the new rules broaden the definition of "tobacco products." Now, e-cigs and their juice can be strictly monitored the same way that cigarettes, cigars, and other products are scrutinized. "So what, Stallcall? I don't smoke [i]or[/i] vape. Besides, it's not healthy to have these habits, so [i]it's for the people's own good.[/i]" Think of it as a matter of principle. There a few angles to approach this issue. First of all, let's get some statements surrounding the FDA's decision. [quote]"At last the Food and Drug Administration will have basic authority to make science-based decisions that will protect our nation's youth and the public health from all tobacco products, including e-cigarettes, cigars and hookah," said Harold Wimmer, president and CEO of the FDA[/quote] That rhetoric should set off a few liberty bells in your head. Protecting the nation's youth? Protecting [i]us[/i]? From ourselves? This is a simple issue of eroding liberty. The FDA is here for more than just spreading information about products. Consumer reports and consumers themselves already have a great handle on that. No, the FDA's job and goal is to regulate, and that's what's coming to the vaping industry. But relax! It's for your own good! We can't let you blithering proletariat idiots hurt yourselves. It's up to [i]us[/i] to keep you safe by prohibiting your actions. That isn't the only issue with this announcement, although the erosion of liberty is arguably the most heinous problem with these sorts of things. Another problem is what we libertarians (and some of the sharper conservatives, bless their hearts) refer to as "crony capitalism." Think of this. Smoking rates in this nation are declining at an impressive rate, and the numbers only foresee continued decline. "Big tobacco" is an industry like any other -- it aspires to grow and compete. So, how do you survive in an arena where you either grow or die, yet your entire consumer-base is shrinking? Trevor Burrus, a research fellow from the Cato Institute, explains the predicament far better than I can. [quote]Like most big companies, big tobacco is stuck in a rut–namely, traditional tobacco. When billions of dollars are invested in infrastructure to produce a single product, it is very difficult to shift that behemoth to a new line of production when the product becomes obsolete or unpopular. Thus, small businesses are often, if not usually, the first movers when it comes to innovation. Blockbuster Video, with a costly commitment to brick and mortar video stores, could hardly have been expected to change its entire business model to rental-by-mail or streaming. By the time the threat of Netflix became existential, it was too late. Many times, when big businesses are in such a situation, one of their last ditch efforts will be to use government to prohibit or hamstring their competitors. Big tobacco has had a similar problem for some time now. They’ve seen smoking rates fall precipitously, and all future projections show smoking rates continuing to fall. Imagine running a business where the demand to “grow, grow, grow” is belied by an inevitable and irresistible decline. So what do you do? Well, you try to expand into new products such as snus and e-cigarettes. Yet big tobacco had the same problem that Blockbuster had with Netflix. They weren’t the first movers on e-cigarettes. As they continued to try to plow a field that had grown barren, small companies began to produce e-cigarettes, and people began to use them.[/quote] The best way to hamstring e-cigs? Get the FDA on their back. By ensnaring e-cigs, these large entrenched companies will be able to catch up to these small businesses. This is a clever trick that large businesses use to stay competitive, and it works across multiple industries. For example, look at what taxi companies are doing to Uber. They've let loose the dogs of the state on them. An even better example is Costco's CEO. He supports a $15 dollar minimum wage. Why? It's not because he's "compassionate." It's because he'll survive it, and his small-time competitors in local areas won't. You want de facto monopolies? Just let the state regulate and you'll have them. TL;DR The FDA is regulating e-cigs. This is an erosion of liberty. Not only that, but huge tobacco companies are jumping for joy at the wounding of their largest competitors. The state is intervening unnecessarily in the market, and it's stifling innovation. All of this for [i]your[/i] protection. Allegedly. Don't you just feel blessed to be protected? Edit: As a nice supplement for some avid readers, here's an interesting source. http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/end-fda-drug-monopoly-let-patients-choose-their-medicines

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  • I'm all for regulation on this industry, as in lab required manufacturing and certifications, etc. Our company has had to hold to certain ISO quality manufacturing standards since early 2015. However, the proposed pricing to have our products approved is absolutely insane to me. As it stands, it would cost up to 150,000 dollars per individual product to be filed under, and approved in the new FDA regulations. Companies like mine and many others, can not afford this. The 99% of companies vanishing with the regulations is no exaggeration. Everyone thinks the vapor industry is easy money, and generates crazy revenue. This is true to some extent. As it stands, this industry in the US alone is generating 2 billion dollars per year and growing. What the FDA doesn't realize, is that this 2 billion is widely split between approximately 6-7,000 different vapor product companies. Meaning an average net of 300,000 per year in a company (assuming equal success rates). Let's say the company does make that 300,000 per year. They still have overhead. Cost of packaging, employee wages/salaries, production costs on products, investments for new product inventory, real estate expenses, utilities, and of course taxes. After all these expenses, an owner of an e liquid business is lucky to be making 60-70k a year. That is why I do not think this price point for product approval is justifiable. Some of us have our lives literally invested in this industry, people will make fun of vaping or call me "gay" or whatever all they want. But this is a serious matter to me, and millions of others. If you want to maintain the variety of products available to us, and help thousands of local businesses who do generate decent tax revenue for their states keep their doors open, I urge you to write a letter to your senators and congressmen, and let them know why this industry is important to you. The CASAA website has loads of email formats you could literally copy and paste, or use as guidelines to write your own personal letter if you have the time. I'm just one voice, but thank you to anyone who took the time to read this.

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  • All them vape kids takin our jobs who do they think they are

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    • Who cares

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    • Go big or go home.. -blam!-n liberals and their vapes

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    • FDA [b][i][u]APPROVED GMOS AND "PINK SLIME" MEAT SUBSTITUTE [/u][/i][/b] so yea i feel soo safe now

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      • FDA is just tried of vapers stealing everyone's girl/guy

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        • For all you conspiracy nutters out there, everybody already thinks vaping is gay. The tobacco companies gain literally nothing from the FDA regulating vapes.

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        • I say e-cigs are good for smokers who're trying to get over the habit, unless we find out in a few years that they actually do something bad that we just haven't seen in anyone yet.

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        • My opinion is this, Cigarettes= smoking tar E-cigs= smoking fruit loops Both are stupid and one is for babies

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        • Hmm, I'm conflicted about this, on one hand the FDA is a bloated morass that is so entrenched in its own bureaucracy that it takes years to approve anything, on the other hand I hate all the hipsters at my schools that vape almost as I hate the ones that actually smoke.

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        • Too much of a good thing is often bad. I think that applies to both scenarios here. Some sort of regulation is necessary. The market corrects itself but in many situations, I'm thinking pharmaceuticals, the cost is too high. We can't have people dying before others learn a product is unsafe.

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        • True about the minimum wage. It's embarrassing small businesses can't even afford 15 dollars an hour in this country when 15 dollars an hour isn't even enough to live on unless you are single and living in a motel eating 7-11 hot dogs and pizza. At least in my state anyway. Maybe in Mississippi 15 dollars an hour will do ya just fine

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          Only reason I have a problem with this is because it's being categorized along with tobacco products. It's not a tobacco product. And categorizing it along with tobacco makes the vaping industry forced to jump through the same hoops along with commercial tobacco. Which means tremendous amounts of red tape and enormous fees associated with licensing. Like.. somewhere in the rage of $1,000,000 per product. So essentially what's happening here is that the door is being slammed shut on 99% of current vaping companies who can't possibly afford to drop a mill for each flavor of e-juice they produce. And this means that consumers are going to have their choices greatly limited and the whole market will be run by a small handful of major brands. Just like industrial tobacco is now.

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          • It's amusing to me that the FDA completely ignores all the well-tested food additives that are [u]proven[/u] to cause cancer, yet goes after vaping since they can't get money from that.

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            • With this argument, you can try and say that cocaine should be legal. The FDA isn't protecting just the "Vapers". They're protecting other people. 2nd hand smoke is a very big issue.

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              • I'm not educated on the situation so I don't know

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              • Anything we consume has to have regulation. Otherwise unscrupulous companies would get away with selling products with harmful levels of lead, mercury and other substances in what we eat, drink and smoke. Where crony capitalism comes in, the FDA is used as a weapon against companies that offer competition to the big corporations with clout in DC. Competition is what makes capitalism work. Crony capitalism throws it all out of balance. This is why we're seeing such a push towards socialism. Socialists use the system we have now as evidence that capitalism doesn't work. Put laws in place to eradicate crony capitalism and see what happens with jobs and the economy.

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                • Good, besides everyone I see that vapes is a low life loser

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                • I'm openly liberal and I typically don't agree with your posts, but you got this one right. The FDA is absolutely worthless, and regulating e-cigs and vaping like tobacco products just [i]screams[/i] corruption. Of course this is the same FDA that allows our meat to be pumped full of hormones and steroids, but taking steroids yourself is illegal.

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                  • OP was vaping when making this post.

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                    • I don't see anything wrong with FDA regulating e-cigs. It's long overdue.

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                      • FDA needs to go harder on this. Anyone who wants to vape must get a tattoo that says "I suck on Fag sticks" on their neck ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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                        • TLDR Gov listening to citizen complains on edgy teens and actually doing something about it

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                        • lets overthrow the government

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                        • Good. Keep that shit away from kids. I can see someone vaping because they need something to draw them away from tobacco, but doing it to look cool to begin with? You'll probably just make yourself look like a dick. I don't particularly find any form of smoking to be savory in the slightest, consequently. I've seen what it does to people, physically and/or mentally. Even with marijuana, I can tell when my friends didn't get their blunt because they mope and act anxious. I guess it depends on the consumer, however.

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                        • 1
                          Why does it matter, though?

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