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Edited by x7L7x: 11/9/2015 3:20:14 AM
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x7L7x

CAN WE LOOK AT SUNSINGERS FOR A SEC!?

*DISCLAIMER* This is going to be a long post. Please try and refrain from commenting if you aren't going to read it all, as you might comment about a point i may have already addressed in my post. --------------------------------------------------------------------- So Titans support class is Defender. Hunters support class is Nightstalker. Warlocks have Sunsinger. I feel like the Warlock support class is lacking. Let's look at the perks. Now you could argue that self res supports the fireteam but it's uses are limited and situational. A perk that requires you to die doesn't really stack up to weapons of light or black hole. So strike that off the list for fireteam support. Radiant skin increases your defense greatly while in radiance. So your just supporting yourself. Next. Let's move to song of flame. It decreases your allies cool downs. THIS IS THE PERK THAT COULD MAKE THIS SUPPORT CLASS. That is... if it wasn't for the fact that the only cool downs that affect your allies are the grenade and melee cool downs. To make this a true support class I think it should effect our allies super cool down as well. BEFORE YOU SHUT MY IDEA DOWN AND CALL IT OVERPOWERED..... hear me out. First of all the super cooldown would not affect the Sunsinger because he is already in his super and the meter constantly drains while in radiance. If you are unfamiliar with song of flame, here is what it does. It decreases the cooldown times for your allies grenade and melee allowing your team to use them faster. The speed of the cooldown effect is directly affected by that teammates discipline and strength stat. So lets say i have 2 teammates. The 1st one has max discipline and 0 strength. My 2nd teammate has 0 discipline and max strength. Song of flames buff is directly affected by the teamate(s) (who's under the effect of the buff) stats. Therefore if I activate song of flame and my 1st teamate has max discipline, they will be able to throw grenades faster than my 2nd teammate who only has a 0 discipline stat while under the effects of song of flame. But my 2nd teammate's melee cooldown will be faster than my 1st teammate's melee when under the effects of song of flame. Well with this in mind the super cooldown would be affected the same way. If your fireteam members have high intelligence stats, their super would cooldown faster. Okay next is grenades. They're fine. Now melee. It's main perk is burn damage over time. It's 3 tree perks are the problem. Almost every Sunsinger uses flames held because the other 2 perks are so underwhelming to use. So let's look at the perks for melee. Flameshield: Grants a temporary overshield. This perk is fine the way it is. Solarwind: Knocks back enemies on hit. Really? Where is this useful? Certainly not in the nightfall where one of the modifiers prevents staggering and flinching. Pvp? Maybe others use this well in crucible but an overshield is much more reliable than pushing an enemy backward. This perk is just too situational. I suggest replacing it with something like melting point (enemies who are hit take more damage) or a blinding effect. Something that supports the fireteam. Maybe even something like if you melee a teammate to grant them a temporay over shield and agility boost. Or maybe even something like reviving a teammate from a distance instantly by using your melee when your reticle is over their ghost. (These are just some ideas. I'm not actually suggesting these specific ideas be used.) Finally we have brimstone: killing an enemy causes them to explode. Once again I can see its uses but it's just to situational. So let's buff it a bit. For instance, any enemy who is hit by the explosion takes damage over time. Melting point comes to mind again with this idea. Or something like the enemy that explodes leaves a sunspot there that allies can walk through to get a weapon damage buff or allies that stand in have their cooldowns reduced while in it (or any sort of buff). Now I feel every other perk is fine except for these last two: Sunburst- Having to kill an enemy with your melee just for a CHANCE to grant an orb isn't really worth it when the other two perks (radiant will: which increases the duration of radiance / viking funeral: which increases the time an enemy is burned and increases said burn damage) are much better options. An example idea for a buff is enemies killed by burn damage grant an orb of light or kills with scorch while your super is charged grant an orb of light. Angel of light- Once again gift of the sun (extra grenade) and touch of flame (all grenades ignite enemies and cause burn damage over time) are much better options. I know it has some use in Pvp but I feel like an extra grenade or causing burn damage with grenades are a much more viable option than being able to hover in the air for a short time while aimed down sights. Personally I don't care what happens with this perk. I just want it gone and a more viable perk in its place. For those of you who made it through this whole post thanks for sticking with me. Do you guys agree with me or disagree? Do you think Sunsinger should get a second look to keep up with the other support classes? Do you think my idea for song of flame should be implemented (lord knows I really want it happen)? Should all the old and or redundent subclasses be reworked to stand out like the new ones? Discuss gaurdians.

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  • Also, since Storm Trance essentially gets a free mini Fist of Havoc on activation, There should be perk or Exotic that causes Radiance activations to emit a small solar explosions because as it stands now, it just can't stand up to Arcblade, Golden Gun, Stormtrance, and obviously not Hammer of Sol.

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    • ALL melee hits during Radiance should one shot a normal unbuffed player.

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    • I wish that upon resurrection all allies get an over shield and do 2x damage. This should be a part of the self res super.

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    • Oh my lord, YES! I main a SunSinger and honestly, it needs fixed. I don't see why The Ram is necessary for fireborn to be a safe bet in PvP, or Nightfall. You revive, and get a shotgun to the kidneys before you get your HUD back. Warning: potentially stupid idea ahead. Hunters get ranged melees, so why not SunSingers? Imagine if the SunSinger could summon an effigy of light / angel / whatever, that follows the nearest ally (or yourself, when solo) and gives them an overshield for 10 seconds? Potential perks: The angel heals allies, as well as gives them the overshield. The angel grants increased recovery to your ally. Summon multiple Angels. This would be a significant improvement on SS' support role, allowing your melee to be more than a personal shield.

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      • I actually prefer floating in place and taking out enemies with tlaloc with ease. In the end it really comes down to play style and what you prefer to do. But again, I agree with some things you said, and I switch my stuff around every once in a while.

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      • Along with the improved grenade recharge rate, you should improve other stuff like melee rr, reload speed normal stats. And increase the duration so we can actually deal some damage for crowd control and bosses

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      • I think storm caller is the team support subclass, it has the best super for clearing out MANY low level enemies at once, It's been used mostly for the golgoroth part of the raid to clear out the taken enemies attacking your teammates backs while the team does damage to the boss

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      • I agree with all of this except angel of light can be useful in PvE I find. Also, after self resing, there is definitely a second of two when you can't do anything, unlike au breaker which is available immediately.

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      • Slow clapping without sarcasm,great points snowflake

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      • Needs a major support buff self rez AND all allies should get some buff. plus we r the only class without a way to increase damage on bosses like hunters and titans

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        • Give solar wind significantly increased range and make it push enemies further. This would make it great for pushing shotgun users away from you.

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        • All enemies should take burn damage from your super and be weak to your allies while burning

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        • I main sunsinger on a warlock and as far as pvp goes its just fine(assuming you have solar armor) pve yes all that would be nice but bungie cant seem to divide the 2 so leave as is

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        • 1. Sunsinger's Song of Flame should be buffed, just as you said. 2. Sunsinger's Radiant skin should grant a buff to all nearby allies that gives them drastically improved recovery, and/or an armour buff. 3. If a Sunsinger with the Fireborn perk enabled activates Radiance while alive, they have the ability to instantly revive downed teammates at the cost of a significant portion of their remaining Super energy. 4. Sunsinger should receive the Melting Point melee upgrade. With these upgrades, it could be a decent support class. It already makes a lot of orbs, so that's nice.

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        • I feel like sunsingers are alright. I main a warlock so i'm not just saying this. Warlocks are the only class with 3 good offensive subclasses and I like that a lot, it gives some variety. I don't think warlocks need a support sub-class because being super offensive can be supportive in itself. If my teammate is low I can melee whatever's attacking him so it attacks me instead, and i have a shield for insurance. Or i can radiance with radiant skin and be a damage tank chucking firebolts so everything aggros me. I wouldn't mind a change to the solar wind, it's pretty useless (even more so because i can't knock teammates off cliffs so what's the bloody point), but brimstone is great when there's a few thrall or acolytes clustered up. Some of your ideas were pretty cool though, and I wouldn't mind a few being implemented.

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        • I guess you can try to pigeon hole the Sunsinger as a support class if you want, but we can just as easily be an offensive beast when the situation calls for us to be. A Sunsinger sporting HoPF, with maxed Discipline is a Fusion Grenade throwing monster.

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        • So... Long... Please Help my eyes

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        • I agree it's not a fire team support subclass. And it's funny and they tried to add some in the storm caller subclass. But it would feel a lot more useful if the only good thing about it was a self revive if I die in a raid.

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        • Edited by Emurinus: 11/9/2015 10:55:18 PM
          I agree with all except for the ranged revival, but maybe it can speed up revival instead? Perhaps instant revive only when Super is active, but takes up a portion of Super (and is still effected by restricted revival). It'd be nice to have Sunsinger be more than just the stereotyped "self-res" subclass.

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        • I agree with this ... it currently feels like Sunsinger is pretty useless except as "The Last Resort" ... self-res to prevent wipes.

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        • I can agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I think you overlook the fact that the sunsinger was the king orb-maker before orbmaking was nerfed. That, and radiance with the heart of praxic fire allowed me to hurl 11 solar/fusion grenades to control certain areas. I put this to good use in Iron Banner, and in particular on Rusted Lands, where I could stand by the edge of the water on the truck-side and lob fusion grenades at the broken wall near the C zone. The grenades would bounce off the wall and directly into C-zone and destroy anyone who happened to be there. I thought it was a great/fun tactic, but I see now that they nerfed the Praxic Fire....

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        • I agree with most of the things you're saying but the main thing I think would be great would be if you you could self res from any death. ANY DEATH. If you get wiped by Oryx then at the moment even a warlock with self res can't do anything about it. This would solve the support class issue. You could self res any revive team mates at any situation.

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        • No too overpowered. I cried whenever some -blam!- used it in trials I will not have it again! [spoiler]im joking by The way[/spoiler]

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        • Edited by CitrusTheNile: 11/9/2015 3:51:06 PM
          I like all of these ideas. My main is warlock sun singer and I mostly run with radiant skin so I can be a tank. Being a tank as a warlock seems out of place and that seems to be only thing the sun singer can actually be classified as a support. Dying and reviving is the most useless support in situations were your entire team is down besides you. I really like the melee ally perk idea that grants them a shield. That is epic. If someone is low on health that would be an excellent support class. Or have a perk were when Radiant skin is active it grants nearby allies an over shield as well. The ideas in the OP are excellent.

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        • Bump

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        • My God, a thread about balance that doesn't involve retarded nerfs! *hands you a medal*

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