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Edited by MadpupYT: 10/23/2015 2:04:27 AM
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Why Iron Banner 2.0 is Ultimately a Failure and What Needs to be Changed.

Is IB 2.0 Better?

1475

Is IB 2.0 Worse

6921

Is IB 2.0 the same as IB 1.0?

1995

[u][b]What is this topic about?[/b][/u] The reasoning behind this post is to discuss what has worked and what has not worked for Iron Banner 2.0. At this point I think it is generally agreed upon that the new Iron Banner has been a bad experience for most guardians. But why was it so bad? What did Bungie do that actually worked? What do they need to change? Do they need to change anything? These are questions that I want to touch on in this post. And please, use the pole up top to vote what you currently think about the new Iron Banner. Hopefully if enough people look at this topic, vote, and discuss, Bungie will see what they need to change for next months event. [u][b]What I'm not going to discuss[/b][/u] The Shadow Shot Glitch. I know people were having a huge issue playing against people using this, even though I was only in one game where I saw it the whole week. The thing is, Bungie knows about this. It kind of sucks they were not made aware of this until Iron Banner was underway, cause if they were, I'm sure they would have pushed it back just like they did ToO. Considering they are aware, and considering this is a game wide issue, it is not something that needs to be discussed as a fix for the next Iron Banner event. [u][b]So... What went right?[/b][/u] Honestly, a few things. This may just be me, but I think lag has been a much smaller issue that it has been in the past. I think alot of network manipulators have finally started getting the message or they have been banned from PVP all together. I had maybe one laggy game out of every 15 or so. The last Iron Banner I played in I played in a laggy game about every 3-4 matches, so in my opinion it is much improved. I think Bungie coming out and saying they would be monitoring this over the week and banning people was also a very good deterrent. Now is it totally fixed. No. But I also don't think it will never be totally fixed. There are people, god bless them some day with better internet, who just have really shitty connections and they want to play PvP. And they have that right to play. But I think they are being recognized better and put into games with other people with questionable connection. Ya it sounds like the video game equivalent to a concentration camp, but we honestly don't want them infecting games, so good for you Bungie. Good items for sale. If the armor and weapons for sale are any indication, we can expect good PvP specific armor to be available every single event. For those that didn't know, the legs you can get give you more movement speed and weapon handling upon respawn, which is a fantastic perk. Weapons that were for sale had amazing rolls. Bungie did claim that the weapons that you could buy would be the premier weapons you would want. Both the side arm and pulse rifle had pretty much perfect roles for the weapons. It seems like that the day is gone where the weapon you finally needed would be for sale, with a random crappy roll that you didn't want. Along with all that, the weapons, at least from the first batch sold, appear to be very good PvP weapons, but I am sure time will tell if that is true. [u][b]So... What went wrong?[/b][/u] Sadly... alot went wrong. One of the biggest dick punches of this whole week was that Bungie claimed that drops would be increased, and those drops would include both items for sale, and items not for sale. It seems like, at least from my stand point and what I have seen other people say, the exact opposite is true. It seems that drops have in fact been decreased and the only items that drop are items that are currently for sale. I have yet to see anyone claim that they have gotten another item (HM, Auto Rifle, Shotgun, anything other than the ship) to drop for them while playing Iron Banner. Here is the problem with this. They have already said that the items you buy, while only 280, have the rolls that you are going to want for that item. So... then why would I want a weapon, regardless of what it attack/defense level is, if it is going to have a random roll on it? I'm not. Now would I be happy if I got another IB weapon that wasn't for sale if it didn't have a great roll... hell ya. Maybe I get lucky and I get a drop for an item with a good or god tier roll on it and if not I can at least use it can make a judgement on the item to see if I want to buy a better roll in another IB event. Right now the items that drop are basically just used to make the ones you buy stronger via infusion. Now about the decreased drops. This is just me, but I played from LVL 0-5 and I had ZERO IB drops of any kind. Zero! The last IB I played in. I had at least 4-5 and I always averaged at least 2 IB drops per event. Never have I played through without any drops. As soon as they "increase" the drops, I get nothing. Maybe I need to keep playing at LVL 5, but why would anyone want to do that? When you go from 0-5 you don't want to keep playing on the same character or keep playing IB in general. Bungie did say the higher the level, the more stuff that is unlocked for drops and drops increase even more. Maybe if you would unlock all the items to drop starting at LVL 0 and kept the drops % the same across all levels, I would feel more inclined to keep playing, but when you grind for days to get to lvl 5 and nothing happens, there isn't much incentive to keep going. Legendary Marks instead of glimmer? Look I understand that you want everyone to use Legendary Marks. But the "no cap" per week is honestly a load of horse crap. The way the current system is set up, it is nearly impossible to purchase both weapons and the armor piece for each separate character. Ya before I would have to glimmer farm a bit if I wanted to buy everything, but it was at least possible to do. Now I have to essentially rely on getting drops from playing, but we have already established that drops rarely happen and if they are a weapon the roll isn't likely going to be desirable. With this, Bungie simply needs to reduce the amount of Legendary Marks each item costs. Cause at this point it is nearly impossible to purchase everything, and it is impossible to purchase everything and infuse weapons and armor at the same time. Plus god forbid you were saving up to buy one of the good weapons from a faction. Now you are stuck waiting another week for that while you save up to buy the IB gear that Bungie has promised would drop. [u][b]So what changes need to be made?[/b][/u] As I pointed out, several changes need to be made to how gear is distributed. Gear is the #1 only reason people play IB. Bungie promised things were going to work one way with gear, and it ended up working the exact opposite as was promised. They need to increase the drops even more than what they claimed they did and they need to unlock all the weapons and armor like they promised. They need to have all these items unlocked to drop as soon as you get into IB and the drop rates need to be the same regardless of what level you are on. They also need to drop how much each item costs to purchase from IB or at least change it back to Glimmer. If you are going to tell people that the gear that is ready for purchase is at the rolls they are going to want, then you are going to have to make it so they can actually purchase that gear. If these changes are actually made, I think the next Iron Banner will be a success. I think it will finally be better than Iron Banner 1.0. If these changes are not made... then I don't see a good amount of people returning to play the game mode, a game mode that people were already avoiding because of how broken it has been in the past. So these are all my thoughts on the matter. What do you think? Am I right, am I wrong, did I miss anything? Comment. Pass this around. Bungie isn't ever going to change anything for the better unless we make them aware of what is broken. [u][b]EDIT:[/b][/u] We are over 1000 votes with about 18% saying IB 2.0 is better, about 18% saying it is about the same, and about 64% saying that IB 2.0 is worse than the original. [u][b]EDIT 2:[/b][/u] Some people are calling me out saying that Bungie never said there would be drops other than what was being sold that week. I got my information from this post about this very subject. [url]https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Update---10132015/en/News/News?aid=13706[/url] The quote is, [b]"End-of-match rewards now include both weapons and armor (including items available on Lord Saladin)."[/b] This lead me to believe that other weapons and armor would drop during the event and I believe that if they in fact did not intend for items not being sold to drop then they worded this line POORLY to say the least. This was the post I read when I was going into Iron Banner. [b][u]EDIT 3:[/u][/b] I'm getting a lot of people saying, "I guess you had bad luck... RNG wasn't on your side, ect, ect." I just want to make this clear that I did not create this post because I personally didn't get loot to drop, I made it based on the vaste majority of players who didn't have loot drop and the confusion created by bungie because of conflicting statements on loot. This post isn't meant to be woe is me, but rather it is meant to gather input from the community on their experience in IB so see what has and has not worked and how Bungie can improve the experience. [b][u]EDIT 4:[/u][/b] So bungie just flat out admitted that the loot drops were broken. Fix should be in for the next Iron Banner.

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  • My main problem with IB was the maps. Fix that ish. Terrible, short rotation.

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  • Bring back the option to reforge IB weapons.

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  • The biggest problem is that the gear is 280... That's total crap. (I mostly dislike and avoid PvP, but my point remains) Iron Banner used to be the opportunity for the PvP crowd to get Max light level. Drops were bad for me as well. Only got 1 class item so far. Going to try to hit rank 5 tonight. IGN Fireteam chat even said the drop rate was bad for them as well. If it's going to be legendary marks to buy gear a few things need to happen. Gear needs to be 300+ Drop rate (since it's the main source of gear) needs to drastically increase. If they change it back to glimmer I'll pay for 280 gear.

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  • Edited by Tibbaryllis2: 10/19/2015 3:55:19 PM
    I agree on the drop rate, but disagree on marks. Account wide you've had 240 marks available from reset to reset (30x7 for dailys, and 30 for weekly heroics). You've also had 75 marks per character available through the three weekly iron banner bounties. You also had at least a weeks notice to save up some of last week's 270 (+30 for weekly PvP that wasn't available this week). This doesn't include marks from breaking down legendaries or from incomplete missions. Assuming you wisely planned, and started the week with 200 marks, you'd have had 665 (interesting number) marks available to you this week. I didn't look at anything about the pulse rifle, but this would have been enough for 7 pulse rifles with change. Obviously you'd have to spend marks as you went since you can't stack over 200, but you get my point. They were also very generous about decreasing the cost of the items compared to the faction vendor/kiosks. Also you missed one thing they did right. The way the reworked the tempered buff and bounties made this IB MUCH more enjoyable. If you hung onto you three weekly bounties, then yesterday or today you could have gone from half way through R3 to R5 without completing a single additional match. And it was incredibly easy to hit R3 by doing some of the bounties. I only played on one character, but I was able to hit R5 last night even while skipping ~3 days worth of bounties.

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  • IB always sucked, but this is to a whole new level

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  • Rank 5 of all 3 characters. Only 1 class item dropped. Yeah. -blam!- that

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    • Lag was definitely an issue in this IB. In almost every game there was at least 1 or 2 people red baring which is really frustrating when you "kill them" but they kill you and just drop dead right after. I got two drops throughout the whole thing. One being a 300 pistol that wasn't the iron banner pistol. All in all a few tweaks and hopefully it'll run better next time it comes around.

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    • 2.0 was almost a year ago around December 2014

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    • Edited by Duncling: 10/19/2015 3:20:40 PM
      Iron banner 2.0 as mentioned by bungie, was the first iron banner in TDB, after they made huge changes in damage from level advantages. Just because we play destiny version 2.0, doesn't mean it's IB 2.0

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    • I agree. 100%. One thing that was missed though is the buff was so string I went from 0-5 in 10 matches. I'm not even good. Check the stats. Because of the buff ppl who played all week took 3 days to level up. The buff should go to those who played ib during the week. Like for example complete a match and get a buff medal. And everyday you play get another. Also they should increase the amount of marks to hold so when events like this come you can buy it all.

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    • my .02 - only did 1 guardian to 5 based on crappy loot, lag, and general boredom -make IB control more like a SWAT control - no radar/supers and make it head shot only -fix the friggin' lag, I know it isn't all cheaters and I know it isn't me (top tier internet, gaming router, and all wired - tested frequently) -change it back to glimmer, there would have been no point in trying to do all 3 guardians since the loot didn't drop like Bungie indicated and buying with marks for all 3 isn't possible with the current marks cap (I had 200 marks when IB started and had saved some items to dismantle, some quests, heroic strikes, etc... to do after spending some)

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    • Is the sidearm currently being sold worth the marks? I've hit rank 5 on my hunter and rank 3 on my warlock and titan. I have the vendor pulse rifle. I want to try and up my sidearm kills for the grimoire.

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      • Without reading your post this is what I would change 1. If drops a still have a chance to drop at 280 they should drop more often. 2. If they drop at 300-310 I would be fine with current drop rates. 3. Better matchmaking and quicker banning of red bar connection people

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          The whole drop thing wasn't a COMPLETE lie on bungies part. But for the last few years, Bungies modo has pretty much been "Now don't lie, but never tell them ALL of the truth." [spoiler]unfortunately, this seems to be the way most AAA video game developers seem to be traveling[/spoiler]

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        • Yes, this IB the drops are absolutely ridiculous. Two of my characters did manage to get boots to drop, which was good, but outside of that, utterly bad. And past IBs used to provide legendary Crucible weapons. What happened to that? Nothing but blue and just plain horrible light level. Network Manipulators are still allowed to run rampant and be at the top of the boards. About 70% of my matches a red bar is always the top person, usiually with an insane K/D. Bungie needs a proactive approach and not a weak reactive one. Plus I don't think they look at the whole picture. we should at least be allowed to describe in the report why we made it. Bungie also needs to do better testing. I fail to see how the Shadow Shot glitch got through. Will the report Bungie receives show this being abused? Being as how there was only one armor piece available, we know we are expected to grind IB more for a full set. That is B.S. but whatever ... Crybaby Hunters going on about Titans just need to stop. Just adjust your play style a bit and you will be fine. I saw plenty of Titans get shut down, including myself. My Titan is my main since day 1, my Hunter currently my weakest character. My Hunter did about as he always does, not worse because of "Titans".

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        • Edited by Flyinpenguin117: 10/19/2015 3:32:56 PM
          Here's what I suggest: -Gear starts at 290 -Sell gear for glimmer -Bring back the old rotation for RNG drops- weapons for sale from the previous IB are in the loot pool. Let all armor be in the pool at all times, in addition to the pieces Saladin sells. -Rep buffs. Do they still exist? -Now that reforge is out for all weapons, let us reroll Iron Banner weapons. Prior to HoW, its what made IB weapons unique and worth pursuing. And it worked well for pretty much all weapons besides Efrideet's Spear and Felwinter's Lie, and now they've removed or nerfed most of the broken perks (Shot Package, Final Round)

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        • They need to being reforging back or something. This pulse is useless with spray and play and outlaw on it. 2 reload perks? Ugh useless. I think I got the worst possible roll.

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        • I saw lag from time to time, but it didn't seem as bad as in previous IBs. My biggest issue is drops. My hunter received a very good cloak (dropped at 297) after hitting rank 3. My warlock hit rank 5 yesterday and has only had the sidearm drop. The only other things I've received are motes, coins and blue engrams.

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        • Edited by DeanPet2014: 10/19/2015 3:20:35 PM
          bring back drops of other guns so at least grinding I can get a chance at a party crasher or spare change etc etc. Drop rates were worst I have ever seen! The worst AND they said better drops! Are they lying or just bad programmers?

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        • #crusible???

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        • I only encountered the SS glitch once as well, but it was one of the most frustrating experiences I've had in the crucible. The other team had a 5000 point swing to the gain the lead in a matter of 1-2 minutes. We were crushing them up to that point, and would've easily won. I left before it was over. Just demotivating. I got 2 drops in 5 ranks. Not terrible, but as you said I had more drops in previous banners. This wouldn't be as annoying had Bungie not stated the supposed increase in drop rate - that was false and/or inaccurate based on what I've seen people say lately. Maybe that will be improved upon. Hopefully. I don't mind the legendary marks instead of glimmer - nothing was overly expensive so it was whatever. Not a good or bad thing IMO. HoS will likely get a slight nerf come next iron banner, although I didn't find it as frustrating as I thought I would. Maybe that's because I got a sweet drag scope snipe on one (very satisfying). I mained with a sunbreaker as well, so maybe I'm completely biased and don't fully realize it. I didn't see my stats go crazy compared to previous banners, however. Id get my super roughly twice/match and would net around 3 kills per. I thought that was reasonable. Btw here is my sweet snipe (at least I thought it was heh) - http://youtu.be/QrjZtX5GT-E

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        • I thought it was about the same as IB1. + Less lag, much easier to rank up - gear distribution sucks complete ass ...nah it was worse

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        • I agree with all you have said. I cannot believe the horrible drop rates, not to mention the horrible gear that is that is dropping. Why on earth are you going to have the same items dropping as those being sold, particularly when the sold items suck to begin with? Completely idiotic, especially since the rolls suck. One thing you should have added is that because level advantages are enabled, I basically have to run with equipment that I really don't want to use. My max light level is 305, and I have to use a specific setup in order to get to 305. So I hardly changed guns or armor at all during the entire grind to go from 0 to level 5. This really sucked, and it made the experience even less enjoyable. This really needs to be looked at. I also felt bad for all the 280 to 290-ish light players getting their teeth kicked in by higher light levels. Well I felt bad, but also irritated when they would be on my team and throw up a nice 2 kills with 20 deaths. If I was in their shoes, I would have just skipped IB all together (in fact, I might just do that anyways next time if changes aren't made), and I am sure many did. I really enjoyed Destiny for a long time, and I have the hours put in to prove it, but it just feels like that time is coming to an end. I have been a staunch supporter, but many of the recent decisions by Bungie are leading me to believe that our best interests are just not in mind. Their constant tinkering hardly ever results in changes for the better. I honestly wonder if they play their game at all? I assure you they don't play it more than me, or others in this community, so why in the hell won't they listen to us, the experts?

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        • I'd like to start by saying Iron Banner is one of my favorite parts of this game. I still have 1 of every old weapon and complete armor sets on all 3 characters. A few things that would really Improve the Iron Banner would be: - Legendary Ghost Shell (150 Marks) - Weekly bounties are in the quest section and have multiple steps/lore so we finally learn who the fuсk the Iron Lords are and why we should care - An exotic ghost shell quest. (Takes two Iron Banner events to complete. - re-rollable weapons AND armor(these are supposed to be higher tier rewards. Iron Banner and trials armor should have exclusive abilities similar to raid gear that makes them more unique. -Some fuсking Grimoire! -Higher loot drops (obviously) -PvE quests (small short quests that give some story. This could be part of the ghost shell quest.) -Exotic Class Item. (Reach rank 5 x number of times then do some quests.) -purchasable rare and Legendary Artifacts that are lore related. (Radegast's blade or Efrideet's eye are good examples. Rare could be bought with Glimmer and Legendary with marks.)

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        • 1: RNG is worse than ever. 2: no reforging for IB weapons. 3: legendary marks to buy IB gear.. Really 4: the gear does not max out the light lvl like it used to but now it drops at the same lvl as regular vanguard/crucible gear and that's somehow supposed to be better? 5: lots of cheating if the super glitch 6: no new shader? It honestly would have been cool if they came up with a new IB shader like one that makes you all white but with a slight hint of gold or one that makes you all copper looking would have been awesome but instead we get year one Ib shaders.

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          • Old Iron Banner was better. First there was more rewords. Second is the Light system. If you got the Raid gear and got to 305 or higher, you rocked Iron Banner. It just sucked and so did the new maps.

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