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Edited by MadpupYT: 10/23/2015 2:04:27 AM
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Why Iron Banner 2.0 is Ultimately a Failure and What Needs to be Changed.

Is IB 2.0 Better?

1475

Is IB 2.0 Worse

6921

Is IB 2.0 the same as IB 1.0?

1995

[u][b]What is this topic about?[/b][/u] The reasoning behind this post is to discuss what has worked and what has not worked for Iron Banner 2.0. At this point I think it is generally agreed upon that the new Iron Banner has been a bad experience for most guardians. But why was it so bad? What did Bungie do that actually worked? What do they need to change? Do they need to change anything? These are questions that I want to touch on in this post. And please, use the pole up top to vote what you currently think about the new Iron Banner. Hopefully if enough people look at this topic, vote, and discuss, Bungie will see what they need to change for next months event. [u][b]What I'm not going to discuss[/b][/u] The Shadow Shot Glitch. I know people were having a huge issue playing against people using this, even though I was only in one game where I saw it the whole week. The thing is, Bungie knows about this. It kind of sucks they were not made aware of this until Iron Banner was underway, cause if they were, I'm sure they would have pushed it back just like they did ToO. Considering they are aware, and considering this is a game wide issue, it is not something that needs to be discussed as a fix for the next Iron Banner event. [u][b]So... What went right?[/b][/u] Honestly, a few things. This may just be me, but I think lag has been a much smaller issue that it has been in the past. I think alot of network manipulators have finally started getting the message or they have been banned from PVP all together. I had maybe one laggy game out of every 15 or so. The last Iron Banner I played in I played in a laggy game about every 3-4 matches, so in my opinion it is much improved. I think Bungie coming out and saying they would be monitoring this over the week and banning people was also a very good deterrent. Now is it totally fixed. No. But I also don't think it will never be totally fixed. There are people, god bless them some day with better internet, who just have really shitty connections and they want to play PvP. And they have that right to play. But I think they are being recognized better and put into games with other people with questionable connection. Ya it sounds like the video game equivalent to a concentration camp, but we honestly don't want them infecting games, so good for you Bungie. Good items for sale. If the armor and weapons for sale are any indication, we can expect good PvP specific armor to be available every single event. For those that didn't know, the legs you can get give you more movement speed and weapon handling upon respawn, which is a fantastic perk. Weapons that were for sale had amazing rolls. Bungie did claim that the weapons that you could buy would be the premier weapons you would want. Both the side arm and pulse rifle had pretty much perfect roles for the weapons. It seems like that the day is gone where the weapon you finally needed would be for sale, with a random crappy roll that you didn't want. Along with all that, the weapons, at least from the first batch sold, appear to be very good PvP weapons, but I am sure time will tell if that is true. [u][b]So... What went wrong?[/b][/u] Sadly... alot went wrong. One of the biggest dick punches of this whole week was that Bungie claimed that drops would be increased, and those drops would include both items for sale, and items not for sale. It seems like, at least from my stand point and what I have seen other people say, the exact opposite is true. It seems that drops have in fact been decreased and the only items that drop are items that are currently for sale. I have yet to see anyone claim that they have gotten another item (HM, Auto Rifle, Shotgun, anything other than the ship) to drop for them while playing Iron Banner. Here is the problem with this. They have already said that the items you buy, while only 280, have the rolls that you are going to want for that item. So... then why would I want a weapon, regardless of what it attack/defense level is, if it is going to have a random roll on it? I'm not. Now would I be happy if I got another IB weapon that wasn't for sale if it didn't have a great roll... hell ya. Maybe I get lucky and I get a drop for an item with a good or god tier roll on it and if not I can at least use it can make a judgement on the item to see if I want to buy a better roll in another IB event. Right now the items that drop are basically just used to make the ones you buy stronger via infusion. Now about the decreased drops. This is just me, but I played from LVL 0-5 and I had ZERO IB drops of any kind. Zero! The last IB I played in. I had at least 4-5 and I always averaged at least 2 IB drops per event. Never have I played through without any drops. As soon as they "increase" the drops, I get nothing. Maybe I need to keep playing at LVL 5, but why would anyone want to do that? When you go from 0-5 you don't want to keep playing on the same character or keep playing IB in general. Bungie did say the higher the level, the more stuff that is unlocked for drops and drops increase even more. Maybe if you would unlock all the items to drop starting at LVL 0 and kept the drops % the same across all levels, I would feel more inclined to keep playing, but when you grind for days to get to lvl 5 and nothing happens, there isn't much incentive to keep going. Legendary Marks instead of glimmer? Look I understand that you want everyone to use Legendary Marks. But the "no cap" per week is honestly a load of horse crap. The way the current system is set up, it is nearly impossible to purchase both weapons and the armor piece for each separate character. Ya before I would have to glimmer farm a bit if I wanted to buy everything, but it was at least possible to do. Now I have to essentially rely on getting drops from playing, but we have already established that drops rarely happen and if they are a weapon the roll isn't likely going to be desirable. With this, Bungie simply needs to reduce the amount of Legendary Marks each item costs. Cause at this point it is nearly impossible to purchase everything, and it is impossible to purchase everything and infuse weapons and armor at the same time. Plus god forbid you were saving up to buy one of the good weapons from a faction. Now you are stuck waiting another week for that while you save up to buy the IB gear that Bungie has promised would drop. [u][b]So what changes need to be made?[/b][/u] As I pointed out, several changes need to be made to how gear is distributed. Gear is the #1 only reason people play IB. Bungie promised things were going to work one way with gear, and it ended up working the exact opposite as was promised. They need to increase the drops even more than what they claimed they did and they need to unlock all the weapons and armor like they promised. They need to have all these items unlocked to drop as soon as you get into IB and the drop rates need to be the same regardless of what level you are on. They also need to drop how much each item costs to purchase from IB or at least change it back to Glimmer. If you are going to tell people that the gear that is ready for purchase is at the rolls they are going to want, then you are going to have to make it so they can actually purchase that gear. If these changes are actually made, I think the next Iron Banner will be a success. I think it will finally be better than Iron Banner 1.0. If these changes are not made... then I don't see a good amount of people returning to play the game mode, a game mode that people were already avoiding because of how broken it has been in the past. So these are all my thoughts on the matter. What do you think? Am I right, am I wrong, did I miss anything? Comment. Pass this around. Bungie isn't ever going to change anything for the better unless we make them aware of what is broken. [u][b]EDIT:[/b][/u] We are over 1000 votes with about 18% saying IB 2.0 is better, about 18% saying it is about the same, and about 64% saying that IB 2.0 is worse than the original. [u][b]EDIT 2:[/b][/u] Some people are calling me out saying that Bungie never said there would be drops other than what was being sold that week. I got my information from this post about this very subject. [url]https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Update---10132015/en/News/News?aid=13706[/url] The quote is, [b]"End-of-match rewards now include both weapons and armor (including items available on Lord Saladin)."[/b] This lead me to believe that other weapons and armor would drop during the event and I believe that if they in fact did not intend for items not being sold to drop then they worded this line POORLY to say the least. This was the post I read when I was going into Iron Banner. [b][u]EDIT 3:[/u][/b] I'm getting a lot of people saying, "I guess you had bad luck... RNG wasn't on your side, ect, ect." I just want to make this clear that I did not create this post because I personally didn't get loot to drop, I made it based on the vaste majority of players who didn't have loot drop and the confusion created by bungie because of conflicting statements on loot. This post isn't meant to be woe is me, but rather it is meant to gather input from the community on their experience in IB so see what has and has not worked and how Bungie can improve the experience. [b][u]EDIT 4:[/u][/b] So bungie just flat out admitted that the loot drops were broken. Fix should be in for the next Iron Banner.

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  • Same for me. Every 4-5 games had top players lagging bad. Drops were scarce and weren't so good. IB was fun with friends, BAD with randoms. :/ never cared for IB, still kinda don't.

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  • Worst iv played lag seemed worse then ever, iv seen 1 team mate and 2 random get weapons hit rank 5 about 15 games ago and still nothin got enough marks to buy 1 gun

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  • So much better. Actually good competition, no thorn, fair play, mercy rule only happened when I was in a bad match (once!) and was very enjoyable. Although, I like normal crucible too. I had a K/D 2.23 match with 29 kills. I don't really care if I got nothing good, because it was the most fun I had playing PvP yet.

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    • Ive gotten 2 drops. Both were the lvl 5 pulse rifle. Im lvl 4 on my hunter and 2 on my titan. Thwy both got a pulse rifle. Both rolls kind of sucked. So ill be buying 1 from saladin

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    • I went to rank 5 and I only got two drops. They were both the class item too. The whole time I only saw two other drops on other team mates. One a class item, the other was the side arm. I agree that the drop rates seem, overall, much lower.

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    • My biggest complaint is the drops. They were horrible. Ended up buying my class item and both weapons. Then while sorting my gear I found that the boots actually dropped for me. The only piece of gear that dropped for me while going from 0-5 were the boots. Lag wasn't a huge issue. Had a few games where you couldn't tell where the enemy was cause they were teleporting around. Was lucky enough to not notice someone abusing their shadow shot supers. No new shader was very lame. Thought a ghost shell would've been nice. The gear couldve at least been 300 light. Considering that in Iron banner light level is supposed to matter.

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      • The new supers are garbage and absolutely annoying. The weapons meta is trash and everything is weak. TTK is too long now in my opinion. The only reason to play is the pulse rifle....

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        • Sell the ship... Only reason Still playing on a rank 5 character on a Monday. Gotta play the RNG game till that drops

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        • The drop rate is crap, i find myself having to buy everything with marks, i say update the drop rate or im done with ib.

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        • Pulse rifles are the new best weapons in crucible by a long shot it used to be hand cannon/shotgun duos with pulse rifle a close second and scouts were more widely used

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        • The fact that I go 20-11 and still lose because people don't know what they are doing is the problem.

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          • The drop rates were horrible I played to rank 4 on my hunter and decided to quit and just buy the cloak as I wasn't getting it through the means bungie intended. I later decide to start on my titan at rank 1 I get the dish towel. The drops need to be adjusted completely.

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          • Edited by xManyxFacedxGod: 10/19/2015 4:33:48 PM
            The worst IB to date. Rank 5 on warlock. 4 on hunter 3 on titan so far with at least 80+ matches only got boots once two pulse rifles and a sidearm and of course class item. Seems like the only real drops anyone including myself are getting is stuff Saladin is already selling. Bungie needs to quit stiffing us with shit drops and gear..I honestly get more rewards more often doing crucible far far less than i do IB.

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          • I think it's better overall. Weapon balance aside, because I still think one primary weapon class dominates. The lag is much improved as mentioned in the post and I'm not sure what's up with OPs drops but everyone I know and myself included got most of the drops before hitting rank five. The weapons and armor cost much less than other weapons and armor and if you didn't like the one that was sold you have a "chance" to get one as a drop. Also the armor perks had some variety for once. Old IB armor always had perks relating to scouts and autos. The two worst weapons in pvp. At least armor drops now instead of having to be purchased, that's awesome in my opinion.

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          • The drops were shit, the weapons being sold were complete shit. IB was a failure

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          • I heard a lot of people complaining nothing IB related was dropping so I didn't touch IB except for maybe 3-4 matches.

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          • Purchased Level 5 weapons should be sold at 300 light. No more, no less. The ToO gear for top people can be 310-320. That would make IB/ToO the PvP equivalent of what Raid/Hard Mode is to PvE. NO IB weapons should have dropped at less than 280. No way should a person have to grind one of Destiny's "special events" and then have to use 3-9 marks + mats simply to make it useful for end game activity. Iron Banner is (as said by Bungie) a monthly "event". The gear should be set up to have more inherent value than a vendor piece. Drop rates should be increased significantly. I say that not to sound entitled; but because Bungie stated that and they should keep their word every once in a blue moon. No IB gear should be re-rollable. We all saw that mess in HoW. Thing is, they don't want people in a position to have to fight >10 levels above them. Dedicated PvP players who aren't interested in prolonged PvE activity should have pathways to at least get in the 300 class for those purposes. That's not giving anything away; that's just treating Iron Banner as the "event" they bill it as. Make the bounties require work, make us get to level 5. Fine. But make the reward system commensurate with the work.

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              This iron banner is horrible. It doesn't have the same feel as the other iron banners. Crucible is just bull now. One gun still remains dominant. Pulse rifle of course. Overall, i had the worst experience so far.

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            • Wow this was LONG, but good and I have to agree. Iron Banner needs to be relevant, here we have a PVP event that demands "endgame" gear to be competitive and yet unless you are a PVE player and have been grinding the raid there is no way you can attain a light level high enough. I competed this entire IB at light lvl 295 on one character and 292 on another, and while it was a struggle I still did well and have two characters at lvl 5. While I agree basically everything in this post, my own priorities might differ slightly. TOTALLY agree that drop rates were a HUGE let down. I probably spent 20-30 hours in IB this time around and other than class items the ONLY thing that dropped for me was one single sidearm, that's it. Not acceptable whatsoever. BUT, I feel like the even bigger issue is light lvl of the gear. Why are we doing this to get stuff that is in no way shape or form superior to what we can get at the vendor? This to me is the biggest issue. I enjoy the raid, but don't have a lot of friends to play with and don't often have time so, PVP is my primary time sink in Destiny. Why is it that Iron Banner can't be a way to reliably get past 300 light level? Why is that?? Is there a good reason for that? Lol.................ok /endrant ;-)

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            • I personally think it was the same for the most part. I don't like they way they do drops or the rate. I think they should go back to dropping other ib stuff instead of what is being sold. Once you hit level 5 with one, there really isn't a reason to play anymore. Nothing to grind for. The drop rate across the game sucks so bad and needs a major overhaul. Starting to run out of reasons to play. Night falls not worth it, raid not worth it when all you get is the same crap. Exotic engrams, 15 hawkmoons later? Not worth it. Anyway, the lag had always been there. Not really different. Between the hunter glitch and hammers being tossed everywhere it's not really competitive. Maybe they should look into takin supers out completely for a competitive playlist. Maybe

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            • Great post, agree with every word. This Iron Banner sucked arse. Bungie need to step up their game if I'm going to bother with the next one.

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            • Played till rank four, only saw three drops, two of which were class items for me. The other one was a pair of boots for a Titan.

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            • [quote]... [u][b]So... What went wrong?[/b][/u] Legendary Marks instead of glimmer? Look I understand that you want everyone to use Legendary Marks. But the "no cap" per week is honestly a load of horse crap. The way the current system is set up, it is nearly impossible to purchase both weapons and the armor piece for each separate character. Ya before I would have to glimmer farm a bit if I wanted to buy everything, but it was at least possible to do. Now I have to essentially rely on getting drops from playing, but we have already established that drops rarely happen and if they are a weapon the roll isn't likely going to be desirable. With this, Bungie simply needs to reduce the amount of Legendary Marks each item costs. Cause at this point it is nearly impossible to purchase everything, and it is impossible to purchase everything and infuse weapons and armor at the same time. Plus god forbid you were saving up to buy one of the good weapons from a faction. Now you are stuck waiting another week for that while you save up to buy the IB gear that Bungie has promised would drop...[/quote] You said a lot of things, some of which are very valid, but I wanted to touch on this. For starters, there are three weekly IB bounties that get you 25 legendary marks for each character (3 x 25 marks = 75 marks per character x 3 characters = 225 legendary marks). Each armour piece will cost you 45 marks for each character and a Nirwen's Mercy will set you back 90 marks (45 x 3 pieces = 130 marks + 90 marks for the weapon = 220 legendary marks cost). You are already rolling a profit on those bounties and you have everything you need. This is not even including the marks given for SHOWING up in the daily crucible event and the daily mission which should take you about 20 minutes total a day (if it takes you longer, you shouldn't even be playing in the IB) and the 3-5 marks you get for breaking down legendary pieces and you should be getting at least 3 a week minimum there. Legendary marks are EXTREMELY easy to get and if they aren't for you, you're doing something very wrong.

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              • Agreed 100% with this post. Not only did I not receive a single drop from rank 0-5, but I only saw one drop for someone else in the 50+ matches I played. Some garbage to say the least.

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              • I think that the whole marks thing is not that big of a deal. Those who knew they were necessary knew to save them up. And they did not make the Iron Banner gear as expensive as everything else which was good on their part. The biggest for me has been (as you stated) the drop rates. They are horrendous. Bungie stated before the Taken King dropped that they wanted the grind to be worth the reward. And for the Iron Banner it just wasn't I played to level 5 on my hunter and almost to level 3 on my warlock before getting any Iron Banner gear drops. And (also as you said) nothing that I have seen has dropped other than what is already for sale. Not to mention the fact that the ship drop rate is so ungodly low that I have only seen one person get it in the countless matches that I have played. Personally I always have a ton of fun in the Iron Banner. And my hawksaw has been particularly fun to use this go around. I think that they definitely fixed some of the issues but there are many more that need to be addressed. I think the biggest problem Bungie has is the old foot in mouth syndrome. They say something that they know will entice gamers and get them excited and they completely fail to deliver on it.

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              • My main problem with IB was the maps. Fix that ish. Terrible, short rotation.

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