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Edited by MadpupYT: 10/23/2015 2:04:27 AM
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Why Iron Banner 2.0 is Ultimately a Failure and What Needs to be Changed.

Is IB 2.0 Better?

1475

Is IB 2.0 Worse

6921

Is IB 2.0 the same as IB 1.0?

1995

[u][b]What is this topic about?[/b][/u] The reasoning behind this post is to discuss what has worked and what has not worked for Iron Banner 2.0. At this point I think it is generally agreed upon that the new Iron Banner has been a bad experience for most guardians. But why was it so bad? What did Bungie do that actually worked? What do they need to change? Do they need to change anything? These are questions that I want to touch on in this post. And please, use the pole up top to vote what you currently think about the new Iron Banner. Hopefully if enough people look at this topic, vote, and discuss, Bungie will see what they need to change for next months event. [u][b]What I'm not going to discuss[/b][/u] The Shadow Shot Glitch. I know people were having a huge issue playing against people using this, even though I was only in one game where I saw it the whole week. The thing is, Bungie knows about this. It kind of sucks they were not made aware of this until Iron Banner was underway, cause if they were, I'm sure they would have pushed it back just like they did ToO. Considering they are aware, and considering this is a game wide issue, it is not something that needs to be discussed as a fix for the next Iron Banner event. [u][b]So... What went right?[/b][/u] Honestly, a few things. This may just be me, but I think lag has been a much smaller issue that it has been in the past. I think alot of network manipulators have finally started getting the message or they have been banned from PVP all together. I had maybe one laggy game out of every 15 or so. The last Iron Banner I played in I played in a laggy game about every 3-4 matches, so in my opinion it is much improved. I think Bungie coming out and saying they would be monitoring this over the week and banning people was also a very good deterrent. Now is it totally fixed. No. But I also don't think it will never be totally fixed. There are people, god bless them some day with better internet, who just have really shitty connections and they want to play PvP. And they have that right to play. But I think they are being recognized better and put into games with other people with questionable connection. Ya it sounds like the video game equivalent to a concentration camp, but we honestly don't want them infecting games, so good for you Bungie. Good items for sale. If the armor and weapons for sale are any indication, we can expect good PvP specific armor to be available every single event. For those that didn't know, the legs you can get give you more movement speed and weapon handling upon respawn, which is a fantastic perk. Weapons that were for sale had amazing rolls. Bungie did claim that the weapons that you could buy would be the premier weapons you would want. Both the side arm and pulse rifle had pretty much perfect roles for the weapons. It seems like that the day is gone where the weapon you finally needed would be for sale, with a random crappy roll that you didn't want. Along with all that, the weapons, at least from the first batch sold, appear to be very good PvP weapons, but I am sure time will tell if that is true. [u][b]So... What went wrong?[/b][/u] Sadly... alot went wrong. One of the biggest dick punches of this whole week was that Bungie claimed that drops would be increased, and those drops would include both items for sale, and items not for sale. It seems like, at least from my stand point and what I have seen other people say, the exact opposite is true. It seems that drops have in fact been decreased and the only items that drop are items that are currently for sale. I have yet to see anyone claim that they have gotten another item (HM, Auto Rifle, Shotgun, anything other than the ship) to drop for them while playing Iron Banner. Here is the problem with this. They have already said that the items you buy, while only 280, have the rolls that you are going to want for that item. So... then why would I want a weapon, regardless of what it attack/defense level is, if it is going to have a random roll on it? I'm not. Now would I be happy if I got another IB weapon that wasn't for sale if it didn't have a great roll... hell ya. Maybe I get lucky and I get a drop for an item with a good or god tier roll on it and if not I can at least use it can make a judgement on the item to see if I want to buy a better roll in another IB event. Right now the items that drop are basically just used to make the ones you buy stronger via infusion. Now about the decreased drops. This is just me, but I played from LVL 0-5 and I had ZERO IB drops of any kind. Zero! The last IB I played in. I had at least 4-5 and I always averaged at least 2 IB drops per event. Never have I played through without any drops. As soon as they "increase" the drops, I get nothing. Maybe I need to keep playing at LVL 5, but why would anyone want to do that? When you go from 0-5 you don't want to keep playing on the same character or keep playing IB in general. Bungie did say the higher the level, the more stuff that is unlocked for drops and drops increase even more. Maybe if you would unlock all the items to drop starting at LVL 0 and kept the drops % the same across all levels, I would feel more inclined to keep playing, but when you grind for days to get to lvl 5 and nothing happens, there isn't much incentive to keep going. Legendary Marks instead of glimmer? Look I understand that you want everyone to use Legendary Marks. But the "no cap" per week is honestly a load of horse crap. The way the current system is set up, it is nearly impossible to purchase both weapons and the armor piece for each separate character. Ya before I would have to glimmer farm a bit if I wanted to buy everything, but it was at least possible to do. Now I have to essentially rely on getting drops from playing, but we have already established that drops rarely happen and if they are a weapon the roll isn't likely going to be desirable. With this, Bungie simply needs to reduce the amount of Legendary Marks each item costs. Cause at this point it is nearly impossible to purchase everything, and it is impossible to purchase everything and infuse weapons and armor at the same time. Plus god forbid you were saving up to buy one of the good weapons from a faction. Now you are stuck waiting another week for that while you save up to buy the IB gear that Bungie has promised would drop. [u][b]So what changes need to be made?[/b][/u] As I pointed out, several changes need to be made to how gear is distributed. Gear is the #1 only reason people play IB. Bungie promised things were going to work one way with gear, and it ended up working the exact opposite as was promised. They need to increase the drops even more than what they claimed they did and they need to unlock all the weapons and armor like they promised. They need to have all these items unlocked to drop as soon as you get into IB and the drop rates need to be the same regardless of what level you are on. They also need to drop how much each item costs to purchase from IB or at least change it back to Glimmer. If you are going to tell people that the gear that is ready for purchase is at the rolls they are going to want, then you are going to have to make it so they can actually purchase that gear. If these changes are actually made, I think the next Iron Banner will be a success. I think it will finally be better than Iron Banner 1.0. If these changes are not made... then I don't see a good amount of people returning to play the game mode, a game mode that people were already avoiding because of how broken it has been in the past. So these are all my thoughts on the matter. What do you think? Am I right, am I wrong, did I miss anything? Comment. Pass this around. Bungie isn't ever going to change anything for the better unless we make them aware of what is broken. [u][b]EDIT:[/b][/u] We are over 1000 votes with about 18% saying IB 2.0 is better, about 18% saying it is about the same, and about 64% saying that IB 2.0 is worse than the original. [u][b]EDIT 2:[/b][/u] Some people are calling me out saying that Bungie never said there would be drops other than what was being sold that week. I got my information from this post about this very subject. [url]https://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Update---10132015/en/News/News?aid=13706[/url] The quote is, [b]"End-of-match rewards now include both weapons and armor (including items available on Lord Saladin)."[/b] This lead me to believe that other weapons and armor would drop during the event and I believe that if they in fact did not intend for items not being sold to drop then they worded this line POORLY to say the least. This was the post I read when I was going into Iron Banner. [b][u]EDIT 3:[/u][/b] I'm getting a lot of people saying, "I guess you had bad luck... RNG wasn't on your side, ect, ect." I just want to make this clear that I did not create this post because I personally didn't get loot to drop, I made it based on the vaste majority of players who didn't have loot drop and the confusion created by bungie because of conflicting statements on loot. This post isn't meant to be woe is me, but rather it is meant to gather input from the community on their experience in IB so see what has and has not worked and how Bungie can improve the experience. [b][u]EDIT 4:[/u][/b] So bungie just flat out admitted that the loot drops were broken. Fix should be in for the next Iron Banner.

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  • Biggest thing in the "wrong" category for me is that it costs legendary marks to buy the gear. It'd be fine if it costed a few marks (but not really). 90 for a weapon is asinine. Anyone but me noticing that EVERYTHING costs marks now, and there aren't enough methods to get them without playing a LOT? The supply is stupidly low (1/3 of what it was before TTK) and the demand is stupidly high (3-4x what it was before TTK)

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    • glad some people got lucky with RNG.. but most did not. If drop rates were actually increased.. they need to be increased a WHOLE lot more... got IB rank 5 and never saw a single IB drop... just a bunch of crap blue gear... thanks for a week of frustration Bungie RNG... at least I did have enough legendary marks to buy some of the stuff I wanted..

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    • Totally agree on the horrendous drop rate. I also got to L5 and never got an IB drop, nor did I ever see a teammate get one. Very different than past Iron Bananas for me.

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    • I must have gotten really lucky. I got the Sidearm, Cape, Boots and ship all from drops and I am only level 4!

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      • Played at rank 5 for a couple days now, worst drops I've ever seen. I got the cloak at rank 2 and a 300 level item, but that's it.

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      • I find it interesting that your only real complaint is loot drops. Which is based on rng. I find that interesting because I got 5 drops this IB on one character that's at 5, and one at 2, which is more than the total drops I had in year one (2). You also use the phrase "Bungie said" alot in regards to how we got what loot. Were there some posts or tweets that I missed that you could point me to? All I could find on the matter was the following: [quote]Potential match completion rewards now include both weapons and armor, matching the same items available from Lord Saladin during each event.[/quote] i.e only the gear that Salad-tin is selling will drop in game [quote]Drop rates have been increased and are intended to be the primary source of rewards from Iron Banner. If you don't get what you're hoping for, you have the option to visit Lord Saladin instead.[/quote] i.e you should get drops around your light level, but if you don't Saladin is the fall back option to pick them up. I saw nothing about Saladin selling God rolls and being the main place to get gear and every item dropping in game, in fact I saw the opposite. With regards to legendary marks: Doing the weekly bounties nets you 75. You can also get 240 from doing the three weeklies and each daily crucible + daily story. That's 315 marks up for grabs each IB week, so I don't see much of an issue there. Much more enjoyable netting them, than farming 10000 glimmer for every gear drop. I think this was the best IB to date. Much less lag, 2.0 gunplay is much better, new supers and subclasses make the game a lot more interesting. (SS Glitch is a non-issue as it is a glitch, an anomaly that is getting hotfixed as we speak)

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        • How bout we change Sunbreaker? I didnt see a lot of Shadowshot glitching although it was there. I DID see Titans throwing tracking OHKO, AOE hammers that regenerate their health and give them massive damage resistance from all sources. I kinda cant blame the people who were abusing Shadowshot when Sunbreakers are running around.

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        • I'm a casual pvp player that only does IB. I skipped it because after the first three days I read that the drop rates were bad and the drops were limited. One of the things that made it so fun was getting drops. Even if it was bad rolls you still got that feeling you got something. Add to that, the boots were the only item you could buy when last few times it was two armor pieces. Then add in the legendary marks crap. EVERY move on bungies part seems to be to make the grind worse. Sorry but I'm already starting to play less because of this deliberate slowing if not stoppage of progress. Besides skipping IB. I've stopped NF. I don't care for daily missions. I just do raid then if I'm bored I'll do strikes. This is a great game but their whole plan has been to make it harder to enjoy. Getting loot and using them is fun. They are taking this away by: Reducing drop rate, making the item be a chance for 310 after you hit 300+, the strange coin/ mote of light / weapon part decrease, and their announcement the "free updates" are based on emote sales. Well I see them making this a hard grind then to make quick cash they will sell coins, motes, weapon parts for real money or some "buff" to increase chances. Wow. Didn't know I felt this way. All I was going to post was I skipped IB. Not a good sign Bungie.

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          • Thx for that post And I agree The drops are rare

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          • I hit rank 5 on all 3 characters, got all the gear and spent 60% of my time swearing at my TV because I would get "babooned" at least 2 times a match.....

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          • Best post of all time

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          • Except for Jolder's Hammer (which I still use today) gear was never really it for me in IB1. In IB1 it was all about the Etheric Light for me. Now that EL is gone, I don't really have a reason to play IB2. I tried it out (293 light) and got to rank 2 then took a closer look at the 280 gear being sold and quit. I'm not playing it. The gear is not worth the time sink. I'd play it for 300 level gear, but I don't see Bungie changing it as they only want you getting 300+ gear from the Raid.

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          • I agree with a lot of what the OP stated. My experience was that post-match rewards were very disappointing. During my grind to rank 5, I received 2 boots (with pretty much the same roll) and a mark and never saw anyone get something that Saladin wasn't selling. On top of that, I saw far too many reward screens where my team won and there were NO drops of any kind; not even some rares or coins or whatever; nothing. Furthermore, I consistently saw the top 2-3 players of a team not be rewarded when the bottom 3 were rewarded (usually it'd be a losing reward screen where the 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th place get some consolation prize while the 1st and 3rd best scorers were left with nothing). Long story short, if post-game rewards are the primary way to IB loot, then the loot screens drop rates need to convey that. Give winning teams and high scoring players the rewards they deserve, whether it be some crappy blues, an engram, or coins; just SOMETHING. Give incentive to grind out the 5 ranks and beyond so we know we aren't wasting our time chasing "promised" rewards that don't seem to be coming our way anytime soon.

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            • Edited by SpectreMT: 10/19/2015 5:53:25 PM
              My "The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly" IB breakdown. GOOD: IB gameplay was better. Great variety of weapons used to good effect. BAD: Loot drops were, to put it mildly, NOT AS ADVERTISED! While I finally did get the PR and 2 Sidearms to drop, I had to play a full day and a half at level 5 to get them. I also got the Thoughtcrime (sp) ship to drop. IMO, this metric was done on purpose to keep players "grinding" their game longer. Too many people quit IB 1.0 after reaching level 5 and buying their items. The whole "improved frequency" of loot drops was an outright fabrication by Bungie, unless they counted the numerous 260 light "rare" crap that dropped. UGLY: The Shadowshot glitch abusers and there are still lag issues. An honorable ugly mention was the amount of under 230 light players participating. The lowest LL I saw so far was 214. When they are on your team you are going to lose. Nothing like handing free kills to your opponents.

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              • Agreed with the good points, and agreed with the bad. Somewhat paradoxically, it was a more enjoyable but less satisfying experience getting to lvl5 - I had the sidearm drop and a class item, but given the amount of time put in and the lackluster att/def/perks I wasn't amazed.

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              • This is what i think about IB2!!!! http://1drv.ms/1M1V20o

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                • Got to rank 5 on two characters and only got the sidearm to drop. Every Iron Banner before this I would have at least 5 drops on each character. :)

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                • 280 light is all that needs to be said.

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                • Edited by Sixclicks: 10/19/2015 4:55:51 PM
                  IB purchased gear needs to be 300 light and ToO should be 310-320 (at least for the lighthouse). It takes a lot less time to do the raid than it takes to get from rank 0 to 5 in IB. As for drop rate, I had 2 drops and only saw a total of 6 drops on my Titan from rank 0 to 5. I pulled the mark in rank 2 and the boots in rank 3. Never pulled anything else. My brother got the bond, boots, and Pulse rifle. The only other item I saw was a sidearm to a random. The enjoyable part was that I absolutely dominated most games this IB using Sunbreaker. So many great sniping moments. I only had a few games below a 2.0.

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                  • I agree. I feel like IB was not exciting to do. A timed event should make you feel like you would miss out on content if you did not participate...and after experiencing it I feel like I would have not missed anything if I didn't participate.

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                  • I reached IB rank 5 yesterday, only got one drop, the Titan mark, that's it... The rest of the stuff I had to buy it from him. Drops as the main source of loot my ass

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                  • Failure is an exaggeration, but I agree the drop rates stunk.

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                  • The weekly bounties were pretty legit and the daily bounties were ok as well, I think the only one that repeated was the get kills with primary weapons......maybe. Also I think I read somewhere around here that having packages drop after rank 3 would also be a good idea. Other than that I was blessed with a 300 class item one match after rank 2 and after rank 3 I got the side arm. I saw two people get boots. And a couple of cloaks dropped. I don't remember how many matches I played but I'm glad it's over lol.

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                  • i personally had three IB drops got the cloak and got the side arm twice but i was very unimpressed by the fact that besides one side arm being 295 everything was rly low im using the cloak just cause i like that in third person it looks like a dog walking =)

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                  • I received 3 cloaks, 1 side arm and 1 pair for boots as drops. I thought it was better overall. Thorn was gone and it wasn't so laggy. The legendary marks for buying gear was brutal, but I only had to buy the pulse rifle after my drops.

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                  • Same for me. Every 4-5 games had top players lagging bad. Drops were scarce and weren't so good. IB was fun with friends, BAD with randoms. :/ never cared for IB, still kinda don't.

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