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Edited by matt69870: 10/18/2015 6:21:20 AM
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No sorry Kings Fall is superior. - More bosses - Zero cheese [spoiler]Okay yes people have figured out how to work around certain mechanics. ALL of them require a good amount of skill and specific items/class setups. Just compare that to the old Atheon cheese. Just took 1 grenade.[/spoiler] - No one can really be carried - Story (Go read books of sorrow) - More creative mechanics Edited to clarify cheese.
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  • you can SS glitch all the bosses and do the raid 50% faster, you can Self Res to cheese some parts too. So...um..... it has cheese, and the cheese has as much holes as Swiss, which is pretty good imo.

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  • The shadow shot glitch is not a cheese. Compare doing slightly more damage to a boss versus pushimg him over a death barrier or pulling out ethernet cord to glitch it. Pretty big difference if you ask me. Not to mention the same effect can be achieved by having more than one hunter.

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  • ofc you cant push bosses now, after 1 raid and a "strike" you'd hope Bungie would get it right..... especially after a year!

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  • Lol if you think about it it's like VoG and CE combined -Jumping puzzle -Relic -Plates -Totems

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  • "Go read books of sorrow" doesn't count as story unless you can access it during the raid or something similar, agree about the other points though it is very easy if everyone knows what to do as its very mechanical.

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  • I see where you're coming from. I never said it was perfect but being able to actually have an understanding and appreciation for what's going on it better than not. Afaik there isn't much on VoG and the story of how it came to be.

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  • Standing on plates is a new mechanic?

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  • With timers yeah. It is.

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  • Kings Fall has been 3 manned, so people can be carried.

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  • BS Impossible to 3 man the entire raid. Gtf out of here

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    It's possible with a lot of self-rezzing. But without it, you are right.

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  • Yeah just watched the 3 man glyphs . Was only part I was questioning . VoG last boss is still only one to ever be soloed and that's even on hard throw grenade and watch him fall off edge. Guess it's possible . Not even sure I call it cheesing it just good use of supers. So I was wrong.

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  • Watched it as well. Looks like it'd be a lot easier just doing it normally.

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  • [quote]- No one can really be carried[/quote] That's false on so many levels.

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  • not as false as either of the other raids

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  • False enough though.

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  • Hence the "really" I realize it's possible to carry a scrub or two but not to the extent of previous activities. Crotas end literally could have 5 of 6 players start dancing at spawn never to touch their controllers again and still be able to finish it.

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  • You can cheese oryx and not have to get the relic by using warlock self revives.

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  • you can cheese atheon with a radiance warlock

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  • I know, but he stated it was uncheesable.

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  • Edited by Manto: 10/17/2015 8:15:03 PM
    More bosses? VoG has Templar, 3 Gate Keepers and then Atheon himself. KF has warpriest, Golgoroth, 2 daughters then Oryx. They have the equal amount of bosses. Cheese? Back then, Destiny was a brand new game, and Bungie didn't have much experience to sort out these issues. The first raid ever in destiny was bound to be filled with glitches. But as thinga have progressed and Bungie have collected more intel on design and codings, they could make lower the probability of glitches. But we never know, I bet once hard mode comes out there will be a game breaking glitch. [i]Creative[/i] mechanics? Jumping part was the only "creative part", running back and forth, then stepping on plates, then shooting the back of an ogre boss and then back to stepping on plates. I mean if you're a simple minded being, I guess these applies to [i]creativity[/i]. But I think this is just a boring way to get "everyone" in the fireteam to "participate". And once you get hang of these [i]mechanics[/i], they aren't really creative mechanics anymore(not that they even were) More story? That's bold, unless you read the backstories in the grimoire you can't really compare them. VoG has [b]much[/b] more lore than KF. The only reason you could say KF has [i]more[/i] story is TTK expansion. Even without any story content presented with VoG, it made it a mystery for nearly a year. You had the relic, Kabr and his fireteam, the paranormal harpies which could erase your existence and the time gates between the present, future and past along with Atheon The Timekeeper who is still shrouded in mystery. The only thing KF has story wise, is the Touch of Malice backstory and how oryx is pissed because of you killing his son. Carried? Everyone can get carried in raids. It is soo easy with the right people. I 3 manned it with a couple of guys while carrying 3 noobs. Not that hard.

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  • Edited by matt69870: 10/18/2015 6:15:20 AM
    Wasn't gonna count something as a boss when it takes 5 seconds to kill. Killing him doesn't even complete the encounter. Gatekeepers are less of a boss and more of a devil walker. Just an insect in the path of your real prey. "once you get hang of these mechanics, they aren't really creative mechanics anymore" I have a problem with this statement. So your favourite food starts to taste bad if you get used to it? You're girlfriend stops being hot after you're together for a while? If something is creative, it's creative. There's no expiry date on that. I'd love to hear how you envision a creative raid if Kings Fall doesn't cut it. As for the lore regarding VoG I'd like to read that for myself. Just hope you're not referring to Atheon and his buddies little grimoire cards. Kings Fall has a much bigger story than just the Touch of Malice and Oryx being salty for killing Crota. If that's all you got from it I'd recommend re reading. And you didn't 3 man the raid with 3 noobs. You did a NORMAL raid with some bad players.

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  • Sorry but you can't actually call gatekeepers bosses. The bosses in Vog are Templar and Atheon. The bosses in Kings Fall are Warpriest, Golgoroth, daughters which count as one since its a singular fight, and Oryx.

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    Were Gatekeepers Ultras though?

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  • Gatekeepers can be 2 shot by ghorn?

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