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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 7/30/2016 7:41:22 PM
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Stop enabling Bizarro Bungie, it's time for endgame matchmaking.

Edit/prologue: This started as just a small post supporting matchmaking, it has grown into something more at this point. This is the community taking a stand and asking for in-game access to content we purchased, who don't believe they should have to leave the game to play the game. Opposing views are welcome as are suggestions to making the process of teaming up better/easier. Also please consider before calling people lazy or stupid for not just using LFG sites, that not everyone's life experience fits your own. Be it work, family, financial situation, whatever. There are many Guardians who just are not comfortable with playing with strangers. For them, using in game matchmaking is a huge step but one that they can get through. Going to a separate forum and posting for a group is something they will never be able to do and that doesn't make them bad people or any worse at this game than anyone, it just means they are wired differently than you. https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/126184301/0/0 I appreciate all the support for the post and I hope Bungie are still listening ---------------------------OP---------------------------- There's no more guarantee of success through a random group on LFG sites as there would be with in-game matchmaking. By including matchmaking and making it optional, it would have zero impact on the experience of anyone who didn't want to use it. As the game stands now, without friends on that happen to have not run already, the amount of unplayable content without having to leave the game to search for people is just stupid. [b][u]Raids[/u][/b] I initially suggested a matchmaking solution, but after discussing this with a fellow guardian, I believe an in-game lfg would be perfect for raids. I think the approach to take would be like Gears and Perfect Dark ran their multiplayer. An individual could choose to host a raid, search for raids or be randomly placed in a raid. The host would form a lobby and have the ability to select a minimum level requirement, raid difficulty level and number of open spaces for randoms to join (in case they want to save a few spots for friends to join). Those not hosting could again, browse a list of available raid parties or just select to be placed automatically in one (choosing which difficulty to be placed in). There could be modifiers for whether or not in-progress raids are acceptable or not. This is also how Bungie could solve the issue of no private Crucible matches in Destiny, by doing lobbies hosted just like raids. One thing you found in both Perfect Dark and Gears was that when you are in a lobby and going game to game with the same group over and over, even people that don't talk are talking by the third or fourth game. It's such an incredibly social approach and one I've never understood why Bungie never tried in Halo https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/129939506/0/0 [b][u]Prison of Elders[/u][/b] The level 28 is a joke. It's a minimal challenge with 3 randoms whether they're talking or not. Once you've run the level 28, you pretty much know what to do in higher difficulties. -Kill enemies. Disarm mine. Destroy mine. Kill target. Revive dead teammate. I’ve yet to have a group talk in the 28, but I’ve been invited twice to do the 34 after and everyone talked in it. There is no reason to not have matchmaking for the higher difficulties and beyond that, it’s mindboggling that there isn’t a system in place to remain grouped from the 28 if we choose and go right to the next difficulty. Another option could be to open the 34-35 matchmaking when we hit 34. A fellow guardian had the suggestion of matchmaking for the 28 and 32 and in-game LFG for the 34 and 35. Either way, we shouldn't be beholden to leaving the game to run them. [b][u]Trials of Osiris[/u][/b] This one is admittedly the most divisive. Most seem to agree there should be some form of MM for the rest. @Nico802vt made the point for ToO that [quote]If they had matchmaking you're most likely gonna get stomped. I bet you'd at some point run into someone without a mic and that is a KEY factor in being successful.[/quote] My response to that is [quote]That's a possibility, but I'd rather have that option and the chance to get in and play (and potentially run into good teammates to form a steady team) than not play at all. If I'm willing to take that risk, that should be my choice.[/quote] There's just no justifiable reason to release a 5 mission 1 strike expansion and make the endgame expansion 90% unplayable without friends on. If nothing else, there should be some matchmade equivalent to ToO, where we can at least meet others who want to run and possibly find teammates for the regular ToO. [b][u]Nightfalls[/u][/b] While I personally love to solo them, there's no reason to not have the option to search for a group for them either. So if you die, you RTO... You do that with a Fireteam too. Want an easy solution? When the randoms enter, [b]put them in a fireteam.[/b] Then if they wipe, they RTO together and can rerun it. There's a lot that is really great and really fun with this game and yet it's constantly undermined by maddening ancillary decisions. -no matchmaking -lack of vault space -inability to delete consumables to clear what little vault space exists -shipping with virtually no default chat options -shifting, confusing and often useless economies -lack of checkpoint or progress save systems for a game with an entire Zoo full of connection errors -virtually no online forum chat presence. Oh look, a thread with a Bungie reply! [quote]I'm moving this to #feedback yadda yadda.[/quote] -ignoring the actual feedback posts with great ideas for improving the game and instead catering to the nerf crowd. You pretty much pioneered console online matchmaking for the original Xbox, but haven't evolved at all in the last decade. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: I gave DeeJ crap for leaving the discussion and accused him of turtling. I’m not going to back off the belief that as the go-between for us and Bungie, he should be willing to participate in more give and take with the community. I understand that sometimes people push too far and I have gone to bat for him in posts where people have personally attacking him, but it is not unreasonable to expect him to accept and respond to feedback to his statement. There are so many amazing posts and stories in this thread explaining why the current system just doesn't work for some people. I hope Bungie are actually paying attention and understanding there are casualties to their philosophy. The vast majority of posts have been overwhelmingly supportive, but there have been a few anti-matchmaking posts peppered in. Some have led real conversation and idea exchange, but most have come down to the same thought process. FEAR. HATE. MISTRUST. FEAR [quote]You’re going to get grouped with AFKers, trolls and people who suck[/quote] HATE [quote]I’m not gonna carry noobs and squeakers through ToO! I get twice the kills in strikes as my idiot teammates!”[/quote] MISTRUST [quote]Most people probably won’t use mics or won’t know what weapons to use.[/quote] I don't understand the notion that we should restrict content for millions, because someone might be bad or mean. You can’t go through life afraid of what might happen. ------------------------------------------------------------ Edit: Back to DeeJ, if you’re going to weigh in on a topic, it’s fair to expect you not just post and leave. There are too many guardians in this post that have valid concerns, questions, and reasons why LFG just doesn't work for them. They want answers and I believe they deserve to be heard and they deserve a response. I would say to anyone who wants legitimate answers and real change towards what we the players want as opposed to what Bungie feel is best for us... Keep bumping for truth. Thank you to all who've commented and read this far. See you all amongst the stars.

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  • bump!

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  • 60 minutes wasted lfg for PoE on the Bungie app last night, seriously this is killing destiny.

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    • Maybe we should tweet Deej? He seems to be pretty active on twitter.

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      • Bump

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      • bump!

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      • bump!

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      • when will bungivision have a [b]discussion [/b]with us!?

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      • just posted this, I hope bungie reply https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/125341691

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      • I posted 5/26 about there being "almost 1000 replies" here. Now, 2 days later, it's at 2001 replies, mostly supporting some sort of optional matchmaking system. Weekly Update mentions nothing about optional matchmaking. As predicted. Disclaimer: Don't blame Deej, he's just their messenger.

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        • I don't have anything substantial to add to this argument, nor do I need the optional matchmaking. Still, I support the inclusion of optional matchmaking. And Crucible private matches. Can we get that while we're at it? I think it is asinine that we have neither of these. Bippity Bappity Bumpity

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          • Bump

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          • Edited by Der Sheff: 5/29/2015 6:18:24 AM
            I don't exactly agree with what you've got going on here; matchmaking should not be an unlock-able feature. Nor do I see what 'optional' means. These might seem like trivial concerns, but are really important. Since this post has gained a lot of steam, I feel like it might be one that Bungie pays attention to. That said, I would love to see some clarifications and (perhaps) some revisions. Optional should clearly be defined as being able to opt in to and out of a matchmaking service (on / off switch). With the aforementioned defined word (optional) in mind, optional matchmaking should be available as soon as the activity becomes available. The biggest complaint by people is that they aren't even able to engage in a raid for the first time because there is no matchmaking. Obviously this isn't technically true, it just presents an artificial barrier to entry, which can easily be bypassed with resourcefulness and initiative. But I digress. Picking back up: locking matchmaking behind activity completion may actually serve to further disenfranchise first time players and lend credence to the ridiculous notion that this game is for 'elitists' only. Now, I would like to state that matchmaking is something I don't believe to be the right fit for certain activities. Whereas an in game LFG service would be perfect. A good start at what I am talking about can be found at DestinyLFG.com. The same functions of this website should be converted an intuitive design that fits for consoles. I acknowledge that an LFG service would be a bit tedious for lesser activities, so here is how I would define black from gray and gray from white: Optional Matchmaking: Story Daily Weekly Nightfall Prison of Elders 28, 32 Strike Playlist LFG Service (in game): Raids Prison of Elders 34, 35 Trials of Osiris I believe this to be a fair split. Now I am not saying matchmaking will not work for the LFG activities, but I believe that these activities demand more than just a-click-away-from-joining effort. Teamwork is paramount, mic's are a must. Further, Trials should definitely NOT have matchmaking as it is legitimately the most difficult endgame and non-communicating randoms, typically PvE try-hards (myself included), will be feeding good teams wins, which will serve to water-down the value of the endgame content. This is just my opinion on the matter. Please review and consider some of these suggestions.

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            • I like this post, makes a lot of good solid points and gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling. I too hope Deej will communicate a bit more about what the Dev's are considering with the game as it pertains to optional match making.

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              • I hope they add it to everything but trials. It won't negatively impact me, and I'll get to enjoy reading everyone's posts bitching about it afterwards. If they add it to trials though it'll get too easy. No thanks.

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                • Bump

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                  • So I seen more posts about matchmaking than the ammo synthesis and key problem and great points too but nothing in the weekly update.. Not saying the synthesis and key things arnt a problem, just saying.

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                    • Buuump

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                    • I will keep making my points untill you ask me to stop but in the end im bumping your post. I had a couple of hours to spare yesterday afternoon so decided to jump on and do some bounties while key farming. Five members of my clan were playing, within 10min I got an invite to do PoE 32 so I accepted and completed that which gave me an armour core which got me up to 33. Afterwards we ran a nightfall as I hadn't run one yet I got a new sniper which was an ok reward. My point is lfg or matchmaking wouldn't have given me the same amount of game progession in a such a short stint as being in a clan did. I didn't have to leave the game to do it either.

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                      • Edited by NovanKenn: 5/29/2015 2:16:48 AM
                        BUMP OPTIONAL Match Making would make the whole "Etheric Light" is too rare argument vanish, as those of us who want to progress but can't due to being unable to access endgame content. I have yet to do a Raid, Trials or any of the harder Levels of PoE due to there is no match making. I have friends who are in clans and do these activities, but they have specific times they do them and have pre-set fire-teams to do these activities, so OPTIONAL Match Making would at least allow me to attempt Raids, Trails and the higher levels of PoE and thereby increase my in game character abilities. Crucible has it, Iron Banner has it, and yes there are times when those activities are a drag/grind due to poor players, poor sportsmanship, and bad connections . . . but hey I can either roll with the problems and try to over come them or I can boot back to orbit and try my luck with a new lobby . . . my choice. Optional Match Making would give us players who are not able too/unwilling too access third party sites for a chance to do END GAME content. Could I join a LFG site, I could but why would I want to. I join a forum to read and post suggestions and content ideas, not to trawl posts looking for a player who may or may-not be online looking for a player. I will openly admit I do get the odd random "let's play destiny" request through xbox live, and sometimes I have time to respond other times I don't . . . to ask them what activity they are doing/want to do. I really see no downside to making OPTIONAL match making available for ALL CONTENT in Destiny. If I use it and get a troll, I can leave the session and try another, or I can deal with it, finish my session and then mark that gamer tag with a "avoid player" ranking so I wont have to run into them again. The tools are all available, in Destiny, xbox live (unsure if PSN has similar abilities) to allow causal players the opportunity to access End Game Content. Good Post, and Thanks for voicing your opinions. Peace. [i]I came back and cleaned up my formatting and some double word usage.[/i]

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                        • Bump

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                        • Bumpity bump

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                        • Yes plz matchmaking for ToO so my premade team can win easier ;) jk not jk but seriously there should be matchmaking for everyone

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                        • Bump. Will continue to do so until addressed properly by Bungie.

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                        • Bump

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