That video will fall on deaf ears here. This forum has become 343's kingdom of fanboys apparently. Even people on Waypoint are more critical than the infestation of apologists on this forum.
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What a ridiculous hyperbole.
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Please elaborate.
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Edited by Jaraghan: 3/14/2015 7:51:02 PMI've seen plenty of people, myself included, criticize 343 for decisions they have made on the Halo franchise. Not everyone is blindly following 343 with the utmost respect and faith.
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Where did I say that everyone was like that? You must have reading problems.
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[quote]This forum has become 343's kingdom of fanboys apparently.[/quote]Do you have a reading problem? You can't expect anyone to take you seriously (not that anyone does anyway) when you say one thing, and then say another.
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[quote]Nowhere in that sentence does it say or even imply that I think every single person on the forum is a 343 fanboy.[/quote] I'm used to encountering stupidity on this forum but this is a whole new level. Apparently you legitimately can't read.
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[quote]I'm used to encountering stupidity on this forum but this is a whole new level. Apparently you legitimately can't read.[/quote]And you're bringing in my supposed stupidity as a relevant topic to our discussion, which isn't so. What we are discussing here is that you stated: "This forum has become 343's kingdom of fanboys apparently." alongside "than the infestation of apologists on this forum.". You're implying the people here are incapable of criticizing any of 343's actions, which is blatantly wrong. You cannot state your opinion and anecdotal evidence as absolute fact. This website is NOT the forum for 343's kingdom of fanboys, and how you came up with that is absurd.
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[quote]This website is NOT the forum for 343's kingdom of fanboys[/quote] I'm afraid you can't state that opinion as fact. You need evidence to back that up.
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[quote]I'm afraid you can't state that opinion as fact.[/quote]It's not an opinion. [quote]You need evidence to back that up.[/quote]Do I really need to, though? It's far easier to disprove of your notion than it is to actually prove it. It's already false, and you are the evidence of that. [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/108029140/0/0/1]"I did, but 343 killed it."[/url] [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/107823680/0/0/1]"... but yeh that game sucked."[/url] You need more proof that this forum isn't a kingdom of 343 fanboys? [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/108420648/0/0/1]42 people voted that Halo needed rethinking.[/url] Not that typical apologist 343 fanboy talk, is it? [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/107571513/0/0]Here is a thread, asking if people love Halo[/url]. Here are some of the responses: [quote]Bungie halo not 343 halo[/quote] [quote]Up until Halol 4, yes, I did.[/quote] [quote]Bungie Halo, yes.[/quote] [quote]Hell yeah up til 343 shit on the whole series :/[/quote] [quote]No, it's an over rated game series built up to be something bigger then it actually is. It's completely sub par on nearly every front, with lackluster additions made with each subsequent game.[/quote] [quote]Every halo except halo4 and halo5. I can tell halo 5 will be a terrible game[/quote] [quote]Nope. I once did but that kind of died off with Halo 4.[/quote] [quote]With Reach, I stopped caring about the story; with Halo 4, I quit caring about multiplayer. I love what Halo was.[/quote] [quote]Up until Bungie left.[/quote] This forum isn't what you think it is. If you keep repeating the same thing over and over, it doesn't make it true. Get your head out of your ass, and accept the fact that some people like and dislike the direction 343 is going, and that those people reside here. Not every Halo player here appreciates the direction 343 is taking with the franchise.
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[quote]You need more proof that this forum isn't a kingdom of 343 fanboys? 42 people voted that Halo needed rethinking. Not that typical apologist 343 fanboy talk, is it?[/quote] Against 121 apologists. Says it all. Overwhelming majority You just proved me right. Thanks very much. I didn't even have to try.
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[quote]Against 121 apologists. Says it all. Overwhelming majority[/quote]So, now you're back peddling your way out of this? First, it was an absolute statement that the entire forum is made up of 343 apologists and fanboys, and now it's only the "overwhelming majority"? [quote]Overwhelming majority[/quote]You consider 3/4 of the votes an "overwhelming majority"? I wouldn't. Especially when you pair it with the 81 votes how some changes are needed. If you're a fanboy and apologist of 343, you wouldn't need to say anything needs to be changed. Whatever 343 puts out, you enjoy and don't question nor criticize. [quote]You just proved me right. Thanks very much. I didn't even have to try.[/quote]Do you even try? I understand why some people around here have such a low opinion of you. You state anecdotal evidence as fact, and back peddle your way out of it when told how ludicrous your post is.
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Edited by Logfish111: 3/16/2015 11:35:54 PM[quote]So, now you're back peddling your way out of this? First, it was an absolute statement that the entire forum is made up of 343 apologists and fanboys, [/quote] I never said that so no. Making shit up to try and win an argument? How very low of you. Can't say it's uncommon on B.Net though. [quote]If you're a fanboy and apologist of 343, you wouldn't need to say anything needs to be changed. Whatever 343 puts out, you enjoy and don't question nor criticize.[/quote] 343 are so useless that if you give them any credit at all, then you are an apologist in my eyes. This is a company that literally only cares about your wallet. Not your playing experience, not the credibility of the classic franchise they were handed, just their profit margins. -blam!- them and -blam!- their apologists. [quote]Do you even try?[/quote] No. As I said, people on this forum are so stupid (like you) that they just win all the arguments for me. I won this argument before it even started just because you are that dumb. Sorry to damage your delusional sense of self-worth their pal.
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[quote]I never said that so no.[/quote]No? So I guess this: [quote]This forum has become 343's kingdom of fanboys apparently.[/quote] Was just something I imagined? You flat out stated this forum is the kingdom for 343 fanboys. You then go on to state: [quote]Against 121 apologists. Says it all. Overwhelming majority[/quote] Which contradicts what you said earlier. I'm truly sorry if you cannot comprehend this. [quote]343 are so useless[/quote]How so? They patched Reach when people complained about it. They patched Halo 4 when people complained. They patched up MCC after the disaster it was. They provided a beta for Halo 5, which has elements that the community wants. They are expanding and doing a better job with the lore and story of the Halo universe than Bungie has. So how exactly is 343 useless? [quote]if you give them any credit at all, then you are an apologist in my eyes.[/quote]Then call me an apologist. Apparently, you cannot give thanks to 343, or by your logic any company, without being labeled an apologist. Your arguments are built on a shaky foundation, and your logic and opinions around that are weak. You can do better. [quote]This is a company that literally only cares about your wallet.[/quote]They care about money, yes. But that's not all they care about. They care about maintaining a positive image, they care about Halo player passion, they care about the fun people have with the game, they care about the story and how it is presented, etc. [quote]Not your playing experience, not the credibility of the classic franchise they were handed, just their profit margins.[/quote]Oh, you know this first hand? You have sat in on 343/Microsoft briefings, where all department heads get together and say "-blam!- our fans. We need their money." If they did not care about player experience, they would have not worked on MCC to the extent that they have. With the most recent patch, they would have given up and moved onto H5. But they haven't. After H4, they would have went on to introduce perks again, or a gameplay style that has even more randomness in it. But they didn't. [quote]As I said, people on this forum are so stupid (like you)[/quote]Again, bringing in my supposed stupidity isn't relevant at all to our argument. It's an ad hominen and has no place here.
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[quote]Was just something I imagined? You flat out stated this forum is the kingdom for 343 fanboys.[/quote] Ok so you're stupidity is just getting beyond laughable and heading into annoying territory. You have no quote from me that says or even implys that I think [u]every single[/u] person on the forum is a fanboy. Fact. Saying this is 343's kingdom of fanboys does not mean that. It merely means that from what I can see, [u]most[/u] people on here are 343 fanboys, backed up by those statistics that you posted whereby 75% of people thought 343 were doing a good job with H5, thanks once again for backing up my argument. [quote]They patched Reach when people complained about it.[/quote] The only good thing they did and I would certainly say they deserved credit for that at the time. However, it's too long ago now to use that in their defense. It's like acquitting a serial killer because they were a volunteer at a care home before they committed their crimes. [quote]They patched Halo 4 when people complained.[/quote] I can't give them credit for patching a shit game which they made. Developers are expected to patch games, only the biggest apologists would give them credit for that, and it's not like H4 suddenly became god tier post-patch, it still sucked. [quote]They patched up MCC after the disaster it was[/quote] A disaster which they created, again they don't get credit for patching because it was expected. Plus it took them too long to fix and they obviously knew they were releasing a broken game to the despair of all Halo fans who has paid their hard-earned money for the game. This is the biggest possible slap in the face that 343 could of given Halo fans and anyone who uses this to apologise for them really needs to take a long hard look at themselves. [quote]They provided a beta for Halo 5[/quote] Which they should've pushed back until MCC was fixed. MCC should have been the one and only priority at that point but instead they made it very clear that MCC was just an afterthought that they wanted to forget about, they'd rather push their next shitty instalment in the Halo series on to us than actually be accountable for their failures and scams. [quote]They are expanding and doing a better job with the lore and story of the Halo universe than Bungie has.[/quote] Maybe if they knew as much about MP as they do about lore and storytelling then Halo wouldn't be dieing so fast. MP is the priority of Halo and it always has been. [quote]Then call me an apologist.[/quote] I will, because you are. [quote]Apparently, you cannot give thanks to 343, or by your logic any company, without being labeled an apologist.[/quote] That is completely untrue. Not all companies have as horrible a track record as 343 does, I will quite happily give companies such as Bethesda and Bioware credit because they have consistently delivered fan pleasing experiences. Sure they have had a few hiccups along the way but nothing like 343's catalogue of catastrophes. [quote]They care about money, yes. But that's not all they care about.[/quote] Erm. No that's all they care about. Profit is the end goal and the only thing that matters for a private company. This would not be a bad thing if 343 were focused on the long-term but instead they suffer from the same thing that many companies do: short-termism. [quote]They care about maintaining a positive image[/quote] Maintaining a positive image for themselves yes. Again this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing but 343 does it in the wrong ways. They have tried to cover up the MCC debacle as best they can rather than admit to their mistakes in order to save face. Disgraceful behaviour. [quote]they care about Halo player passion[/quote] I am yet to see any evidence of that one. [quote]they care about the fun people have with the game[/quote] But they will quite happily put that second to pushing out a game in an unacceptable state just so they can sell xbox consoles for xmas. Another example of putting short-term profits before the long-term health of the franchise and the satisfaction of your fans. Good job 343! [quote]Oh, you know this first hand? You have sat in on 343/Microsoft briefings, where all department heads get together and say "-blam!- our fans. We need their money."[/quote] Clearly I do not know that first hand, but they would not act in the way they do if that were not the case. And no I highly doubt they speak so bluntly. I think it's more like: "We've clearly -blam!-ed up here, what is the best way to save our profit margins?" The answer must be to cover up all their mistakes and treat their fans like idiots, because that's exactly what they've done. Lucky for them that most of their fans do appear to be idiots. I guess this will send a great message to devs everywhere: It doesn't matter how bad you -blam!- up, there is always a cheaper way to deal with a problem than actually fixing it! [quote]If they did not care about player experience, they would have not worked on MCC to the extent that they have. With the most recent patch, they would have given up and moved onto H5. But they haven't. After H4, they would have went on to introduce perks again, or a gameplay style that has even more randomness in it. But they didn't.[/quote] No because you said it yourself, they have to maintain a positive image (once again helping me with my argument, thanks very much). If they really did care about player experience, they would've have delayed the H5 beta until MCC was fully functional, and they would be in the process of developing numerous waves of free DLC in order to compensate Halo fans and restore the population of MCC. The ODST port (no FF) and Relic (who asked for this map?) remake is a start but not good enough and not enough to restore the population that the game needs to survive. If they really cared about player experience, they would've also delayed the H5 final release if necessary, yet they did not talk about any such possibility. Keeping in mind 343's past efforts, they could certainly do with more development time. [quote]Again, bringing in my supposed stupidity isn't relevant at all to our argument. It's an ad hominen and has no place here.[/quote] I couldn't care less. I feel that called people out on their stupidity is a necessary thing.
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I don't have the desire to continue this argument any longer. I don't have the time nor the patience. Neither one of use will change the viewpoint of the other, thereby allowing us to argue in circles.
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Terrible cop out. I win.
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"This forum has become a kingdom of 343 fanboys.." You must have memory problems
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Nowhere in that sentence does it say or even imply that I think every single person on the forum is a 343 fanboy.
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