Timur's Lash is exclusive to IB and there's still a lot of bad blood by those who died to level 7's who never ventured back in because of that. Red Hand IX, Venetian II are both really nice hand cannons but are also random role. Fatebringer and Word of Crota are set in stone and to be honest? Trash clearing weapon due to the higher RoF on WoC is just as overall effective as firefly for a reason. It's easier to use Fate, yes, but not when you realize that Fatebringer can deliver a 1505 which can't even one shot enemies at level 30 in nightfalls anymore. It will be obsolete come next update. This is also why I invested into the LDR 5001 from vanguard stock. It is a short range sniper with one of the quick, snappy, scopes and allows me to put firefly to good use both in close quarters (Omnigul strike coming to mind) and over distance (same strike). Truth be told? If we are expecting higher RoF weapons to be the norm of 331 (which most weapons now are) then you can expect the warning signs already there. The maps themselves will probably be fine and it's on the judgement of the user, but in the end? 331 versus 300 with better stats to show for improved range and one less bullet due to no field scout perk. I can live with the one less bullet for three consecutive headshot perk adding one back into the chamber.

It will give you the extra bullet so long as it doesn't fail to proc against hive as it does sometimes. If people aren't willing to play a bit of iron banner because they were killed by other players in competitive multiplayer regardless of level then they don't deserve the best legendary handcannon in the game anyway. As for the Red Hand and Venation II (thank for correcting me I wasn't really sure if it was a II or III) I fully agree with you on the random rolls being an issue, although if you do obtain one with a decent roll it will immediately outclass the Word. If you want another great handcannon that's always available look no further than than the crucible quartermaster as he sells the TFWPKY 1969 with new rolls relatively often. As for the Fate v Word debate all I have to say is that in my [i]opinion[/i] primaries are typically for clearing tier 1 enemies or "the trash" and the best weapons will clear out the most while using the least amount of ammunition. The Fate has this in spades. The Word to me is only useful in Void burn only Nightfalls and the CE raid. Other than those situations there truthfully is no need to use it. Off topic: that LDR you speak sounds pretty fantastic although I would take my Icebreaker any day simply because I don't even need to crit with it to get the explosive effect. It can be used both as a sniper and a shotgun in PvE because of this nasty little effect. Then again I don't have Gjally ( it and the Nechrocasm are the only ones I'm missing minus the PS exclusives of course) so I suppose my Icebreker has no real competition for my exotic slot so I may be a tad bit biased

[quote] then they don't deserve the best legendary handcannon in the game anyway. [/quote] It isn't. Not by a longshot. That actually belongs to Thorn for a reason. TLW accuracy is terrible. It's a dice roll when hip firing. Timurs Lash, which I dismantled, has random perk assignments. There's no benefit to be found on most of them in simplistic terms of damage potential in future raids which I'm already preparing for by replaying key story missions for the Fallen due to the clues which are pointing at close quarter engagements with HEAVIER THEN NORMAL shield opponents. This is why WoC AND Oversoul Edict, with TERRIBLE impact are going to be crucible for the next raid. Timur's Lash, unless it rolls a REALLY good roll will only get half of the job done. [quote]decent roll it will immediately outclass the Word. [/quote] That's the roll of the dice. I aim for the weapon which is customized to make it work for a situation without having to rely on that factor of luck. [quote]TFWPKY 1969 [/quote] Bought, leveled, dismantled. Not even close for what is going to be needed in the future raids. [quote]Icebreaker any day simply because I don't even need to crit with it to get the explosive effect. It can be used both as a sniper and a shotgun in PvE because of this nasty little effect. [/quote] Best get used to that recoil effect then because I don't touch icebreaker outside of VoG oracles... snipes should NEVER have that much recoil... EVER...

Notice I said legendary handcannons. Last time I checked both Thorn and TLW are exotic so bringing them up makes no real sense at all. Timur's Lash has the most impact of [b][i]all[/i][/b] handcannons and that simply isn't debatable. Now sure it is a dice roll when you first get it but that's what reforming is for. Re roll it until you get the perks you want on a weapon that already has some of the best stats for a handcannon regardless of type. TFWPKY is fantastic if rolled well. I'm assuming the one you got had bad perks and if that's so then it certainly deserved to be sharded. If you straight up compare the stats though it is superior to the Word. Now I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that high rof weapons are all of sudden superior when in reality they aren't or the idea that the next raid will support high rof weapons which is not only impossible to know at this point but from my viewpoint at least way off base. The only weapons that are guaranteed to be useful in the next raid are arc weapons due to captains having arc shields. Anything beyond that is hypothesizing at best. Lastly I don't know how you find the Icebreaker's recoil bad enough to keep you from using it. Sure it may not have the best recoil but it is a sniper after all and I high powered one at that. If you can't accurately aim with Icebreaker then snipers may not be for you

[quote]Timur's Lash has the most impact of all handcannons and that simply isn't debatable. Now sure it is a dice roll when you first get it but that's what reforming is for. Re roll it until you get the perks you want on a weapon that already has some of the best stats for a handcannon regardless of type.[/quote] So is icebreaker and LDR 5001 for snipers. Know the difference? Icebreaker trades stability for firefly. LDR, legendary, beats that for simply running out of ammo. [quote]TFWPKY is fantastic if rolled well.[/quote] Fatebringer is better and the Word of Crota is better then Fatebringer. Like I said, I'm working around those guns which I don't need to reroll for any reason. [quote]Lastly I don't know how you find the Icebreaker's recoil bad enough to keep you from using it.[/quote] Recoil on a sniper is meant to say amatuer builder for one as I take personal pride in my sniper rifles in real life. That gun though, trading heat syncing for ballistic rounds is right up sci-fi alley as bullshit. A sniper rifle is a pinpoint precision instrument. Having ANY recoil throws off the calibration of them. Icebreaker is one of the highest snipers I've seen in video games and I've been around for quite some time. I know it was done for balance purposes, but it is a 100% turnoff.

But you see the LDR faces the same issue the handcannons you knocked before do. It a dice roll as you stated previously. The only other snipers I use besides my Icebreaker is my Black Hammer when appropriate and my Praeydeth's when in the crucible. Again don't know where you're coming up with the idea that the Word is better than any other 331 handcannons outside of the CE raid or Voidburn only Nightfalls as both its stats and perks are mediocre at best and downright broken at worst considering its phantom gift perk won't even proc sometimes. Fatebringer is only great now for clearing tier one enemies. Beyond that it is simply a handicap. You could say it's great for arc burn Nightfalls but the new raid scout rifle is far better for it so again it becomes nothing more than a handicap. Now you can tell something on a sniper is a turnoff but you see that is a personal opinion, not a fact. Also, don't bring how space lasers on a sniper are stupid when you're playing a game based on fighting aliens on distant space colonies. Now a for Icebreaker's recoil, if we're being objective here, sure it's not the easiest sniper to use. Could a skilled sniper compensate for the recoil? Easily actually. All it takes is skill with a sniper. It is unarguable that Icebreaker is the PvE sniper king so long as one is skilled enough to use it. Once you step into the crucible though it certainly does not reign in anyway but that is an entirely different topic altogether

[quote]But you see the LDR faces the same issue the handcannons you knocked[/quote] [quote]This is also why I invested into the LDR 5001 from vanguard stock.[/quote] [quote] LDR 5001 from vanguard stock.[/quote] [quote]from vanguard stock.[/quote] See what I did there? Btw, that's still unedited up top. [quote]Again don't know where you're coming up with the idea that the Word is better than any other 331 handcannons[/quote] Where I'm coming from? The side of a competitive gamer. No. Not the thick skulled meathead gamer you see in MLG sometimes, but the one who simply knows the best handcannon when it has been found and realize why the perks are auto set the way they are. [quote]the new raid scout rifle is far better for it so again it becomes nothing more than a handicap.[/quote] Fatebringer drops more often then the scout rifle, but I did take the liberty of lining up the stats found [url=http://db.destinytracker.com/inventory/item/4252504452]here.[/url] Again, Fatebringer at 300 deals greater impact and has a higher stability rating when perfect balance is not tossed down (if I had the scout rifle though, that is what I would toss on.) but I like the shape of that build. If I had it? I'd probably abuse it for the range increase.

I see what you did it just doesn't really matter is all considering the rolls on the LDR at the Vanguard is still completely random. What happened to what you said before about not relying on RNG for good weapon rolls? Also if you were as competitive as you let on then you would've compared the TFWPKY you knocked previously' stats with the Word and see that the Word has [i][b]worse[/b][/i]b stats than the weapon you previously said was only worth sharding. Now you're defending Fatebringer when that's what I was doing originally so I'm a bit confused as to why you're telling Fatebringer is good when I said that before. The entire argument I was having before was based on the Word being for the most part being a handicap when used in any situation minus the raid and Void burn Nightfalls because no matter what you say its stats are not as good as other handcannons. It has a high rof? That's cool except this is a handcannon, a slow firing accuracy based weapon. The primary focus of a handcannon is to put a lot of heat downwind with each shot, something the Word does a poorer job of than others. TL;DR The Word is worse than other handcannons based on both its stats and its perks that are either non noticeable (such as its flared magwell perk) or simply don't even activate half the time (phantom gift)

[quote]considering the rolls on the LDR at the Vanguard is still completely random.[/quote] The point of ALL this is still the same: If it can be bought or found by a collective majority of people for a given stat role? It doesn't really matter that it was "randomized" so it IS the same gun with the same perks. Stock weapons? Are EXACTLY that. It's not "Out of this LDR 5001. Now I'm going to stock modified version LDR 5001" or "Found this LDR 5001 in the wild." It's the same gun week in and week out. If you HAVE a different version gun, maybe because it did change (different console's could mean different guns or maybe they do swap legendary guns on update tuesday every week. To be fair, I've never ventured into those possibilities). As for Phantom Gift and whatnot activating, like I said, I'll quickly find players getting mad when they don't have a WoC when it gets fixed, if it needs any fixing at all. I'll find out soon enough. No worries there.

Ask anyone with common sense and they'll tell you the Word is bad. Regardless of its perks working or not it has bad stats. That's unarguable. Now as for the LDR...have you not being playing Destiny long? The type of LDR the vanguard sells has different stats [b][i]every[/i][/b] week. Your console has nothing to do with what is sold by vendors. It the same for everyone like it has been since the game launched

[quote]Ask anyone with common sense and they'll tell you the Word is bad.[/quote] You are trying to say you can't define the gun but know it's bad? I'm going to be very interested in how you adapt to level 34+ enemies. [quote]The type of LDR the vanguard sells has different stats every week.[/quote] You wonder why I keep quoting myself? Maybe because you need to stop doing that selective reading style you are currently doing? Or maybe you are tired of hearing me saying I don't have time to explain? lol... [quote]or maybe they do swap legendary guns on update tuesday every week. To be fair, I've never ventured into those possibilities).[/quote]