Boss I am totally with you. Before patch Auto Rifles were already lacking, in my opinion they needed a buff to be able to compete with the Thorn and The Last Word. I play on Xbox so I have no idea about the Hawkmoon.
The thing is that Bungie looked at the raw data and saw that Auto Rifles were the most common weapon used. I think that is due to them being the most intuitive weapon. Most FPS have a similar weapon to a Destiny Auto Rifle so they are easy to pick up and play with.
At high level play almost no one uses an Auto Rifle, you just are at a disadvantage to the Hand Cannons. The Last Word will wreck just about any weapon close - semi mid range and anything beyond that you got the Thorn.
Obviously Bungie wants the majority of its players to start using different weapons the problem is that when they do not look at high level play to "balance" weapons they end up creating a meta where skilled players pick between 2 or 3 different guns and anything else has been dumbed down too much in order to get the average player to make a change.
I disagree with the way they are going about it but I do see where they are coming from, if you made it so the Suros could compete with Hand Cannons at high level play then at the average skill level majority of players would chose the Suros over the Hand Cannons. I am totally ok with that but I think Bungie is trying to open players to using all sorts of different weapons. The sad part for me is that they are almost "making" players change weapons in a similar way that they created the "slaughter" rule. I can back out of a lobby if I chose to I don't need some parent figure (Bungie) telling me I played so bad that they will do it for me, some times you want another chance and you just had a fluke game.
If the weapons were more balanced yes more players would use the Assault Rifles because they are intuitive to FPS but instead Bungie is "making" players use other weapons by making Auto Rifles bad enough that even if they are intuitive they are just not worth it.
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Bump.
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Make this it's own thread
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The auto rifles really didn't feel different to me they still slay against and cannons and scout rifles if you are good
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They've pretty much rendered ARs useless in both PVE & PVP. It was bad enough to see the biggest prize reward in the game ( Vex Mythoclast ) get ruined but now the most popular AR ( Suros ) isn't worth a damn either. I hate shotguns with a passion so what do they do? They double their power in PVE making them hit harder than many machine guns. My favorite game has turned into a chore to play. Unreal.
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Edited by somuchnotes: 2/28/2015 8:22:02 PMbungie keeps effin with autos and watch their fanbase disappear. Autos are the staple guns of any fps.
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Edited by Abell: 2/28/2015 8:19:31 PMPlease make this a separate thread. Bungie needs to know how bad they are now
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Not gonna lie. Hand Cannons still Op as heck and still getting smacked by fusion rifles from med to long ranges.
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Great breakdown. Vanquisher is one of my favorite PVP tools, but I won't bust it out anymore. Maybe I'll switch to Bad Juju when I'm not using Thorn.
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Spot on Man. Great response... Problem is that Bungie doesn't play their own game so they dont know how to balance it. They take numbers and base their balancing off of that... If you ask me that is retarded ! They should not have touched Auto Rifles.. Hand Cannons needed a minor tweak to be more inline with AR's and Pulse Rifles could have gotten a small buff and that would have balanced the primary weapons. Instead they screwed everyone who likes to use Auto Rifles.. What amazes me is that so many people know this .. even 12 year olds who play this game know this but yet the people who actually developed this game and coded it do not know ... how can you not know that TLW, Thorn and VEX are the most OP weapons in the game... So Sad .. Atleast they finally listened and nerfed Fusion rifles some.. i am not sure if it was enough though.
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Exactly, top tier players were using TLW, Thorn, Vex (sometimes), and Non-Upgraded Suros occasionally. Now it's strictly TLW and Thorn at high level play in Crucible, oh and the Red Death from time to time. Auto Rifles are not viable anymore and get thrashed by hand cannons and pulse rifles. They weren't bad before the update, but now they are terrible. Not sure why player usage caused a nerf. I'm sure there weren't many people running around with an AR destroying Thorn and TLW users.
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It was an upgraded suros they just fan fired it and it shot twice as fast, just like people abuse the bonus damage down the sights with the last word
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I'm just happy people will actually start using other weapons
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i dont understand how 2.5% makes any difference.
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The 2.5% on a low-impact, high-ROF auto rifle isn't that noticeable. But the high-impact ARs like Suros, Vanquisher, and people still hanging on to their Shadow Price/Grim Citizens to bring into the Crucible get even more damage reduction. The other problem is the damage drop-off is more noticeable, so you're not able to engage as effectively at the same ranges that other weapons can chew you up from. A decent handcannon still has some good reach and can hit accurately if the user isn't spamming their shots. Scout rifles are still nice long-distance plinkers, as they've always been. And Pulse Rifles are now the end-all be-all PvP weapon. Everything's been dialed down, while Pulse Rifles' damage output went extremely high. To combat imbalance in their game, Bungie created more imbalance in their game. :/
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Edited by mfx-one: 2/27/2015 6:30:39 AMExactly... I don't understand what these guys were thinking. The crucible is now a merry go round of 2 shot/3 shot pulse rifle kills with guns like Bad Juju, the strangers rifle (lmfao), and three little words feeling way over powered. Any type of perceived superiority the AR once had pales in comparison to what pulse rifles feel like now. It's laughable.
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Bad juju was always a 3 crit headshot burst kill and still is; it's damage was raised by 2 points per bullet meaning you're only doing 18 extra damage in 3 bursts so no it wasn't drastically upped you can just miss one bullet out of one burst its a tad more forgiving
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Two weeks ago it was almost unheard of to see Bad Juju in the crucible now it's everywhere, so I don't know if the numbers tell the full story.
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that's largely hype.. if bungie announced that starting next week that all blue hand cannons were going to get 12% damage increase, the next week you'd have a bunch of chickens running around with their blue hand cannon in hand heads cut off.. the masses flock to whatever they are told will be the most powerful. regardless of the actual math or technical skill required to use them effectively.
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Edited by SNC B Chill: 2/28/2015 10:09:15 PMI know the numbers I've used it in crucible since day one, original damage was 24 crit shot with a 1.5 hit modifier, 16 damage body shot damage with its bonus damage perk it went up to 27 crit shot and 19 body shot. New numbers are 27 crit shot and 19 body and with bonus damage 30 headshot and 22 body so in essence they raised it up to its bonus damage stats from before it was buffed. (Bad juju) You see it a ton because people are trying it out after the buff, doesn't mean it's op I've killed a ton of people using it in crucible and they just change back to thorn or last word, you have to be accurate with the gun and since I've used it forever I know how to use it.
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Because its 5x2.5%. So 12.5%
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where did you get 5 from?
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Because suros was doing 36 but now 31 at shotgun range. That certainty isn't 2.5% nerf.
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the real question is "2.5% of what", because they do WAAAAAY less damage now.
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Hawkmoon is the strongest hand cannon