I'm just going to paste what I've said earlier regarding this retarded mentality that seems to have taken hold around here, and because I'm not inclined to waste further time using logic and patience, to explain things to the deaf, dumb and blind who recycle the same rubbish which falls apart at the first application of cohesive thought. Ah, so typical elitist bull shit, nice to see that the PC MMO crap has migrated and now pollutes a new game with it's asinine stupidity. [u][b]Warning heavy sarcasm:[/b][/u] [b]Random people will be under equipped?[/b] Riiiiight so considering the raids are going to be endgame content it's almost a certainty they are going to be lvl locked more than likely lvl 20+ or until they complete the main game missions. If they are lvl 20 players, apparently Bungie is too stupid when it comes to designing their lvls to balance them so lvl 20 players can play them, is that what you're saying? Only the elite players can play them correct? Doesn't matter if I have a full Vanguard armor, legendary weapons earned and hit lvl 20, if you don't accept random people on your friends list who you've never met, talked to or played with you're just shit out of luck right? That's the situation that's being fostered. *slow clap* bravo, bravo. Edit: apparently raids are lvl locked until lvl25, thanks for correcting me. It just hammers the point home even more really. [b]But you can spend time organising and getting friends using the forums, raids are serious buzinuss guyz!. [/b] Yeah, because what this game needs is another bunch of elitist dicks who put walls in place when it comes to joining clans and a raiding becomes a mind numbing bore, about as futile as herding a group of cats. So Raids are restricted to the 1% of people who have enough time to organise their friends into groups a week in advance. Everyone else who has responsibilities or has made friends with people in other time zones, -blam!- them right? They're not dedicated enough to sit for 4 hours on a forum organising instead of playing the game, so they're not good enough. So the hell what if they paid for the game, filthy casuals I believe they're called right? Also we'll just ignore that this early into a console generation, this game is now going to be split across 4 different consoles, or the fact that numerous people have swapped console. The fragmentation of the user base is just a figment of our imagination. [b]MM can't be in it, or it needs to be easier and gear needs a nerf.[/b] Wow, I see the ego stroking is strong here. Aren't you the special snow flake? It's not as if numerous fire teams just need extras to fill in the gap. No one makes friends just by getting to know random people by playing with them before making a friend request. Clearly only the "best" deserve to be rewarded because they had enough time to waste organising blocks of time a month in advance, right? Everyone who plays raids without friends or without enough is just a scrub looking to be carried, it's not as if they're high lvl but don't have the option or inclination to trawl through forums to find a game. I'm just being silly right? Couldn't it be that there's no in game clan support, the tower only supports 16 players, there's no effective chat or social feature which would mitigate any of this. Naaaahhh. [b]People will complain and want it nerfed[/b] Yeah, because people don't do that already, with everything. Adding MM will instantly create that, where as if it's not there all the elite players can live in a Utopian fantasy where no one complains about difficulty. Tell me how that's worked in the past? [b] Designed so only elite teams can play, no scrubs allowed[/b] Oh, so unless people arbitrarily add random players and manually invite randoms to a raid they're morons clearly playing with their feet and drooling down the mic. If you manually make a squad of "friends" you're hardcore, if you invite random people manually you achieve the same result and end up being able to enter the "hardcore" lvl of play. Yet if you engage in MM, suddenly everyone is too stupid to play the game properly? Wow, what changed? Did everyone get a dose of stupid pills before entering MM? Considering the Raids are locked at lvl25, who exactly are these "noobs" who are going to cry out for nerfs because the content is too hard? No one is capable of picking up a mic? Did We all get lobotomies? And every one in MM can't organise a piss up in a brewery, even if they've run the raid various times and are all lvl 25+ and have high lvl equipment. I'm not the only one who realises how utterly stupid that line of thought is am I? Thanks, I thought other players doing end game content and packing high lvl gear were actually ready for a challenge. Silly me. It's not as if anyone ever talks on a mic, or asks if someone else has one. Glad we cleared that up. [b]But people will fail[/b] Really? Really? we're all so entitled the instant that players with hours and hours of play time, the best equipment and gear fail they'll pitch a fit. Have you played Dark Souls 1 and 2, possibly the most brutal game in the last 5 years. Clearly we're all masochists. yet neither of them punish you for wasting time on a forum to organise a game in the first place. Edit: Oh and one extra one, apparently if it wasn't designed with MM, it can't ever be rectified or corrected in light of data and feedback. God no. No other Co op mode/ raid game uses MM Oh except, Wow... and Payday 2 (the entire game is a series of bloody raids).. and League of Legends... My reserves of sarcasm and bile are running low for now, but I think that covers most of the daft arguments I've seen.

Where do I even begin dismantling your obscenely baseless argument against there being a system that supports voluntarily participating in a game with other people voluntarily participating in that same game rather than... well... NOT participating. Odd how harmless and logical that sounds, isn't it? Remind me how this system would adversely affect someone who has no intention of using it? Oh, that's right... it wouldn't affect you at all. Hmmm. Basically, you're sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. You don't need matchmaking? So be it. Don't use it. If others think they will need it, they are entitled to voice that foreseeable necessity--or at least personal preference--within a game they are just as much a "valued and paying participant" of as you are. Here's the scary part. On perhaps a more simplified and honest level, what you're doing here is revealing of your own fascist paradigm. It's as if you're stating, "What's adequate for me is adequate for all. To be different than me is to be discluded." You're wrong on all accounts and what's worse is that you're taking that position over something as frivolous as a game. I wouldn't even venture to guess how self-serving and ignorant your more sociologically impactful opinions could be. Needless to say, I don't think you have a clue what you're really talking about here. Next time you might just be presumptuous enough to expect your unsolicited opinion will garnish public embarrassment and save yourself the effort. I won't sit here and call you an idiot, but you sure as hell made yourself look plenty stupid. Here's a good rule to go by in life, on or off the internet; if it doesn't effect you, keep your mouth shut.

Raid with MM - Complete the MM raid (a nerfed version of the real raid so randoms will be able to complete it) and receive an emblem, or something that doesn't matter. (2 hrs max gameplay) Raid without MM - Complete the raid at the difficulty level Bungie intended and receive rare/exotic gear you can't get anywhere else in the game. (hours possibly days of planning, coordinating and playing) That is the only way I'd be ok with MM implemented for raids.

I agree with you in that I want the Raids to be pure and uninhibited and to stay as true to Bungie's original intentions as possible. But I don't like how presumptuous some of this sounds. You can't just label people lazy because they want matchmaking to be an option. Some players have genuine concerns about being able to get the most out of the Raids due to time constraints, whether it's kids or work or whatever, and don't want the chore of having to keep tabs on friends and try to arrange suitable times etc to sit down and play the Raids.

[quote]This content is not for every player, I'm sorry everyone feels entitled to ever bit of content that comes with a game but that's not how it works in reality, sorry. Yes you paid for the game, and they are giving you access to the content, the same level of access they are giving EVERYONE else. Whether or not you as a player have the time or patience to access that content the way they set it up is on you.[/quote] Really? I would wager from all the articles I've read and the responses on here that it's a big portion of the gaming community who will feel ostracized if they have no means of doing raids. You should really re-word that part of your post. If there is no MM, then Bungie needs to do something else to make sure as many people as possible can participate and enjoy this part of the game. Otherwise it may hurt their sales in the future and that's BAD for everyone. The course it's going at the moment, I feel like raids will represent an elitism atmosphere, no one really wants that, right? Or am I just blowing this out of proportion? EDIT: When I said everyone, I didn't mean everyone completing the raid, let those teams full of randoms fail but don't exclude them.

You're seriously arguing against matchmaking? Newsflash: you're not special, you're not good at the game, you're not more "hardcore" than anyone else. Why should content that people paid for be off limits to them simply because they don't have 5 friends on at the same time? The game is going to be easy because their idea of increasing the difficulty is just turning the AI into bullet sponges. It only requires more tedious time to beat it, not more skill. Get over yourself.

Matchmaking needs to be an option for people who want it. If you do not like risking being paired with someone lacking your video game skills, do not use matchmaking. Build your crew. Do your thing. Too often have I seen people met with absurd resistance when trying to access endgame content because they do not meet the arbitrary, elitist requirements of some self-important clique. The challenges should be the same for everyone. If your skill gets you through a fight in one try that takes me a million, that is my problem. This game should allow me to spend my time and my resources, in this regard, the way I want to. My utilization of matchmaking should be of no hindrance to your established group. I may make it through end game content and that should not be a problem for any other player. This all just makes me very suspicious of the intent of those bent against matchmaking. One of the hurdles of end game content should not be a popularity contest, and I really believe that is what this is all about.

Let me preface this by saying yes this is an MMO comparison. Anyone that has played World of Warcraft as long as I have knows that when it first came out it was freaking hard. 40 man raids, no matchmaking for them. yeah try to get those together consistently enough to do anything in the RAID itself. Then Blizzard saw a problem, there were 90% of players not seeing the content they created. Over the years Blizzard added matchmaking to each level of content so even the casual player could play it. Some people complained and some people were elated, but everyone kept playing(for the most part). The problem came when they instituted Looking For Raid. In order to ensure the Casual player could progress through the content they had to dumb down the content, THIS IS NOT GOOD!! No one that works hard at something wants it handed to someone else for a quarter of the work. But then it became just an extra step to serious raiders when they altered gear level to match the content level(well at least they tried). Everyone was ok for a while. Guess what, they decided to change it again and add FLEX system allowing groups of different sizes to enter the RAIDs and scaling the difficulty with the RAID group size. So the evolution of their RAID now has LFR, FLEX, 10 regular, 10 man Heroic, 25 man Regular and 25 man Heroic for each freaking RAID. Although I am not against a MM system, if Bungie ever does institute it I hope beyond hope that they do not alter the difficulty of it in doing so. Let the casual player understand what it really takes to get through the end game content and not just let them skirt by just so they can see it. That is all I got for now. thank you.

I feel like everyone who doesnt want matchmaking is just kissing bungies ass and is scared to have anyone criticize their work. The whole point is to let bungie know what we want, and if so many people want matchmaking, why not just give it to them. Bungie is a great company but that doesn't mean theyre perfect... Why not show them that a lot of people really want matchmaking? Putting matchmaking in the game makes people like me, whod rather just play the game regardless of difficulty, happy because i dont have to spend so much time and effort just to get a chance at beating the raid.

No, catering to the will of the weeaboo gamers is how Ninja Gaiden became the piece of shit it is now. If they can't handle the difficulty, they shouldn''t phuck wit it. Simple as that. Build your crew, build your character, and summon your hitters when you all feel ready to face the pain. Dem Whinny-ass-bitch-ass-nikkas.

[url=http://www.inquisitr.com/1389786/destiny-raids-defended-by-bungie-designer-discusses-how-you-can-quit-and-return/]linky[/url] Found this posted 3 days ago. not sure if anyone else noticed this.

What i don't get is why they just don't add it as a option. Like pvp matches, go with randoms or team with friends. I mean cmon. By now they should know anyone that chose randoms know the risks & was willing. I got a friend added to my list I met in a match.Played with randoms 99% of the beta

Maybe it would be cool to add like a Spot on the tower where people who want to do raids hang out. So if I want to do a raid I meet at the Purple Ball and wait. Once we have a group, Onto the Raid!

but I'm a casual I should have everything given to me I should be able to solo raids cause I can only play for 5 minutes a day

Give in already! Bungie doesn't trust me to have fun/accomplish things with strangers and that is just a downright condescending attitude to have towards your audience.

Here are three statements by Bungie's own Mr. Luke Smith that destroy any arguments against including match-making (MM) for raids: "'Hard mode will take longer,' he continued. 'Once your group learns the encounters, you will be able to get through the Raid significantly faster than three hours.' Smith appeared to play down the fact that you'll need to befriend those who enter into a raid with you, stating just that the 'disparate people who come together to try" a raid will be able to view it as "a team-building exercise'. Raids will be made easier to beat in several sessions by the ability to store your insertion points each week - meaning your group can break off and rejoin at a later time." (source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-31-destinys-six-player-raids-can-only-be-played-with-friends) So, to sum it up: 1) The challenge that some people are clamouring for as an excuse to not include match-making (MM) for raids is said by Mr. Luke Smith himself to quickly change and wear down. Strike one. 2) Mr. Luke Smith also plays down the aspect of needing to be tightly-knit friends in order to be able to complete raids successfully. He goes on to describe it as a team-building exercise. That leads us to the question (again) as to why not implement MM which allows people to meet other people and learn (quickly) how to play together (as well as whether they are a good match). Strike two. 3) Raid groups will be able to save their progress in raids at various points over the course of the week that any given raid is active. (Raids reset after 1-week, apparently.) That eliminates the argument that randoms/PUGs etc. will ruin it all by just bailing. They won't. This is now confirmed by Bungie via Luke Smith - the man in charge of developing this aspect of the game. Strike three. Conclusion: Not having MM in "Destiny" is nonsense, and an *incredibly* poor decision with what seems to be a regrettable lack of foresight.

A decade ago I would have been standing here agreeing with a lot of people saying not to add match making however times have changed a lot for me. Most of the kids here lack life perspective especially since many of them don't have many life responsibilities. They can dedicate many hours per week playing to get organized and find other people to raid with all at all hours of the day. Now I I swore I would never become a casual gamer for as long as I lived but life has now shown me that it is just not possible with a real job and a family to take care of. years ago I could easily put in 6 hours per day of gaming, now I get like 4 hours per week if I'm lucky. Match making is now a necessity because I can't spend any spare time trying to organize a raid in a video game. I just want to get online and be able to play and have fun without feeling like there are roadblocks limiting what and where I can play. So in the end I say bring on matchmaking for those who want or need it. There is nothing stopping the elitist from putting together their ultimate raiding team or forcing them to use the matchmaking system.

Give in bungie!

It's sad that the one thing I still enjoyed about console games versus PC games seems to be a thing of the past. Now games and people playing games on consoles are joining the elitist groups that take gaming too seriously. I can't believe in a video game I read people talking about dedication and hard work and organization outside the game....this seriousness and intolerance makes me miss my offline SNES. Online gaming brought us good things, drop in drop out coop, bigger worlds to explore but has in life it's flawed because it's filled with people. Then there came social media and somehow games are becoming a part of it. Need a group, go on forums, need a map, here is an app. I miss having self contained games I could enjoy without people that forget it's just gaming, it's meant for fun, not self validation or social challenges. I miss the time when gamers were considered geeks, now gamers are bullies, it makes me sad.

I hope they never cave in, WoW started catering to casuals back in WotLK, with the excuse of wanting everyone to see the content. The types of people they're catering to are fickle, they get it handed to them, then they move on to another game. Look at wow subs, they been slowly bleeding since the beginning of Cataclysm

Bungie isn't the type of company to simply cave for whiny people.