Not true, I will create a scenario for you. Your child is trapped under a car, you know you cannot lift the car do to the logical mind. you try anyway. You lift it. Save your child You have just defied logic. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength] This has been documented countless times.[/url]

Bump Because I don't think anyone that posits that God is outside logic knows what they're actually positing.

Derp. To talk about God is to talk about one of two things: 1. A being greater than that which can ever be conceived. To state something or form a concept about the being is to state or form a concept about something less than the being. No images are proposed as 'true' nor words 'definitive' in describing or representing him/her/it/whatever as to do this is to limit said being and to ascribe a human concept to something unimaginably beyond human conception. A good analogy would be trying to wrap an elephant up in a single square of toilet paper. Even to describe it as 'unimaginably beyond human conception' is to misrepresent it, but language necessitates I create concepts and statements so here you are. 2. An extremely powerful being with an actual identity, such as the Abrahamic God who is often pictured as an object with form and attributes. These attributes are then labelled as infinite in magnitude and the being is usually portrayed as sentient in the religious scriptures he is alluded to in, with actions and dialogue he is a 'character' within the universe just like you and I. Now, to claim that 1 has to conform to logic is simply ridiculous. Logic relies on concepts, whereas 1 relies on no concepts at all. If there were no concepts 1 could easily exist, as it does not rely on them for existence; in fact it relies only on one's absence of them. 1 simply 'is' and you cannot create statements of concepts to fully encompass that (I didn't fully encompass it then). You may say that's a pointless kind of being, one you can't say anything true about, but then I ask you what is the point of the universe? Is there a 'point' to the Earth being so big and orbiting so far around the Sun? Sure, you can find scientific explanations but not a 'point', a 'reason' in the way we mean here. 2 on the other hand certainly does conform to logic. 'God is good' is a statement no Christian in his right mind would deny because they've learnt it from their Bible or their preacher, both heavily concept-driven sources; the fact that they stick the word 'infinite' in there means nothing seeing as how that's just another concept like any other. 2 is a being almost completely dependent on statements.; 'the bible is the word of god' 'god is our father who art in heaven' so in this way it is actually pretty constrained by logic. Logic takes the concepts and binds them together to make the statement. Without logic there could be no 2, whereas 1 could exist irrespective of logic. Also, to pick at the statements I used in describing and explaining 1 is to miss the point entirely.

Don't derp me, mister. D:< First, I never said a god can't possibly exist beyond logic(forgive me if that's not what you took from my first post). I was arguing against the use of "god is above comprehension/logic" as a defense of a personal god that you should worship. Why? Placing an entity above your ability to comprehend immediately renders any possible position that one could take about it indefensible. How can someone claim to know that a being they can't even comprehend wants to have a personal relationship with them, or that it created the universe, or that it's "good", or that it even exists? Worship of an incomprehensible/"nonlogical" being is entirely arbitrary. Also about said entity being pointless, as an explanation and defense for belief in a personal God that at the same time renders any other position you can possibly take about your particular entity untenable, yeah the notion of such a being becomes pointless because it doesn't explain or defend anything; which is exactly what it was posited for.

[quote]The fact of the matter is if you throw out logic then you can't make any kind of claim about anything at all.[/quote] Very nicely put.