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#Community

1/2/2013 5:10:47 AM
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A huge problem with this community

Before I begin, let me clarify something. This thread is mostly in reference to threads on the Flood, because the Septagon is saturated with employees, moderators, and people dedicated to pleasing the previous two groups, and because the game forums have effectively died. Bungie.net has a culture problem. A culture problem that I believe is detrimental to the growth and success of the website. Hostility is not really something I see talked about much here so I figured this was worth a thread. The Flood's not a pleasant place, and it never really has been. In fact, it got so bad that the Big Man had to step in and [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=26466683]do this[/url]. It kind of feels like the entire community, moderators and members both, have forgotten [url=http://www.bungie.net/Help/content_viewer.aspx?link=conduct]that being a jerk is a bad thing.[/url] Anyone who posts often on the Flood can see this. People are constantly tossing around insults, and pretty nasty ones at that. For some reason, no one seems to care anymore - maybe because we're dark, or maybe because we've just all gotten lazy or grown out of being bothered by such things. [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76620787]Just look through a few[/url] [url=http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=76616824]pages from a couple of threads made since yesterday.[/url] Let me stop here and say that I am not trying to be negative and judgmental towards the moderation team. I know that holding that position is difficult from experience elsewhere, I know how exhausting and bothersome the job is. I'm aware that moderators can't be everywhere at all times to ban people who are hurling nasty insults at someone. This is just as much a call to members. Every one of us are given a report button so we can help keep the forums clean, but who really uses it unless they're upset over something an OP said? How often do you see a post reported aside from OPs and harmful links? The sheer nastiness that can be seen just by scanning over any somewhat long thread is astounding. Maybe moderators don't ban people within threads because they don't see them. Maybe the same is true for people not reporting a post. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a moderator lock an exceptionally long thread, that everyone knows is nothing but a cluster-blam!- of angry people spewing hate at each other, and not bother to even read the second post. Like I said, I understand when you just don't see it, but why in the hell are people in these huge threads not reporting these types of posts? I know that people will be jerks on the internet, and I'm not expecting it to change. But can we please do something to get rid of this toxicity before new people start pouring in? People have strong opinions on things, and they're certainly entitled to them, but why do you have to insult someone by saying you can't tell if she's a boy or a girl? Why do you have to say nasty things to non-heteros, or females, or people who don't like the same private group as you do? Why is any of this tolerated at all? Allowing this stuff to go on is just running people away from the site, because a civilized person has no reason to spend their time being involved in a community that harbors these types of people. I know what the responses will be to this post. People will tell me how I'm being too sensitive and how it's just the way the internet is. People will tell me I'm one of the jerks. And look, I know I overstep the line sometimes when I'm joking. None of us are perfect, but I don't think asking members to attempt to be decent (and mods to enforce decency when needed) is too much to ask. You can ignore this problem all you want, but I know from talking to others that I'm not the only person who sees this. It's a real problem that needs to be fixed.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bloodpit10 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi You can't see the hostility? You must be under a spell. Why am I not surprised you all have one thing in common.... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] easytomake [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jaythenerdkid [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] R3ACTlON [/quote][/quote]I know you're referring to the Sapphire, but I honestly didn't see any hostility in Harlow's post. I'm actually pretty sure that I'm in Sapphire's sears'd list and all I see in the OP is 100% truth. The hostility is the one and only reason I don't usually visit the main forums anymore. No matter what you say, if it's an opinion of some sort it [i]will[/i] get flamed. No matter what. I agree with him, the attitude of the community in this site is a problem which has driven many people, and will drive many people away. It needs to be fixed. [/quote]All of this. I'll admit, Harlow and Jay have never been particular favorites of mine, but right now I've agreed with everything they've said in this thread and around the issue. They seem to actually be in the few showing the most sense at the minute. Seems that more than a few people are ignoring the issues presented though, in favour of attacking or demeaning the people presenting them themselves. How ironic. I don't think the "it's the internet, get over it" attitude is appropriate either. On the subject of reporting, that's a flawed system in of itself. It requires that the majority of people actually addressing the post in question have a problem with it, which, as demonstrated by this thread, and most likely at least one on the front page of the Flood, is not going to happen because those people are the ones with the attitudes of "it doesn't matter" or they join in. The ones who do attempt to step in as well as report just get the tide turn on them, the poster in question as a subject receives more hostility and, at best, the thread is locked after hitting a sizable number of replies and the perpetrators get a warning or ban, usually bypassed by another alt which runs rampant until the whole cycle starts again. Either that or no bans get issued and the members carry on behaving in a despicable or inappropriate manner. So far, in the Flood at least, most of the people disagreeing with Harlow and Jay [i]are[/i] the perpetrators, at least to a degree, but because most people here have the attitude of "internet people are dicks, get over it" anyone who speaks out against the situation get called "butthurt", "wimps" and other similar insults to varying degrees, often having to be filtered or bypassing the filter (for which most times, nothing gets done). I've seen, most recently, people saying "Oh, there are much worse forums than this place", "consider yourselves lucky", "it used to be worse than this", "if you want civil conversations, get off the internet" and other such BS, as if the victims (for lack of a better word) should be grateful for some reason. Do people really excuse this? [Edited on 01.02.2013 12:28 PM PST]

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  • When you go to a place that is mainly dominated by 14-18 year olds you're gonna feel like it's a zoo. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Primo84 When haters are hating, I just remind myself that I'm better than everyone else. [/quote] That is the Mythic way of life. [Edited on 01.02.2013 12:24 PM PST]

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  • When haters are hating, I just remind myself that I'm better than everyone else.

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  • OP, there will [i]always[/i] be mean, cruel, distrustful people in this world. The only difference between it being in real life and on the internet is the security of a computer monitor or screen of a phone or other similar electronic gizmos. Wishing for the bad to go away is a pipe dream, and will [i]never[/i] happen. Still, keep your chin up; good will always prevail. [Edited on 01.02.2013 12:18 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyT [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gaara444 Why? I hardly ever visit the place, but what's so bad about Sapphire? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0gbinlad3n This thread has nothing to do with private groups, but Harlow is the admin of Sapphire, which tends to inspire rage in many. [/quote][/quote]I've been wondering since the start, but not one person has given any valid response.[/quote] I could list many reasons and even cite the irony this thread creates because of that, but that would be off topic. But I think private groups are way more guilty of these issues than the mains, like the one we just talked about. It depends on what kind of atmosphere you are trying to create. [/quote]If you're talking hostility, I don't see it in any private groups. In TFS we say some pretty horrific stuff to each other, but almost all of it is joking around or someone getting fired up by a Kika post.

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  • Sounds like a private group soap-opera to me. Community is fine. Stop crying.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 I could list many reasons and even cite the irony this thread creates because of that, but that would be off topic.[/quote]A PM with a list will be fine. I'm serious, please don't give it in a half-assed manner. [quote]But I think private groups are way more guilty of these issues than the mains, like the one we just talked about. It depends on what kind of atmosphere you are trying to create. [/quote]Yes, I do believe internet drama from the private groups slime into the public forums. Its inevitable, sadly.

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  • Don't worry Harlow, I'm here.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyT [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gaara444 Why? I hardly ever visit the place, but what's so bad about Sapphire? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0gbinlad3n This thread has nothing to do with private groups, but Harlow is the admin of Sapphire, which tends to inspire rage in many. [/quote][/quote]I've been wondering since the start, but not one person has given any valid response.[/quote] I could list many reasons and even cite the irony this thread creates because of that, but that would be off topic. But I think private groups are way more guilty of these issues than the mains, like the one we just talked about. It depends on what kind of atmosphere you are trying to create. [Edited on 01.02.2013 12:07 PM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] OneDeadCaveMan Fascism[/quote]You're gonna have to be a wee bit more detailed than that.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] CrazyT [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gaara444 Why? I hardly ever visit the place, but what's so bad about Sapphire? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0gbinlad3n This thread has nothing to do with private groups, but Harlow is the admin of Sapphire, which tends to inspire rage in many. [/quote][/quote]I've been wondering since the start, but not one person has given any valid response.[/quote]Fascism

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gaara444 Why? I hardly ever visit the place, but what's so bad about Sapphire? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] H0gbinlad3n This thread has nothing to do with private groups, but Harlow is the admin of Sapphire, which tends to inspire rage in many. [/quote][/quote]I've been wondering since the start, but not one person has given any valid response.

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  • This thread is just depressingly lulzy DAMN! MISSED THE GET! [Edited on 01.02.2013 12:02 PM PST]

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  • [url=http://youtu.be/M3w1_E1V46M][quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ElementalRunner First world problems.[/quote][/url]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EAGLES5 We should just make Harlow a moderator. He seems to be good at patrolling the scary part of town.[/quote] If the coffee that I just spit on my screen short-circuits anything, I am SO going to sue you. So, OT. Are we through here? Or are there new points/issues to be discussed?[/quote]Harlow's OP hurt my feelings because he was so hostile to the Flood. Please ban him for being a jerk.

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  • First world problems.

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  • Get ya' -blam!- together, Bungie.

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  • What can we do as a community to improve the quality of the site? 1. Don't respond to bait. The only reason offensive discussion goes on is because people respond to it. You have to have enough common sense to enter an offensive thread, report it, and leave without responding. What do you do when someone throws an insult at you? Nothing. Go on with your discussion like nothing happened. If you're hard-skinned and have an understanding of self-control then this is common sense, the problem is people can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Recon hit the nail on the head.[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 One can participate in the serious and non-mudslinging discussion and ignore the airborne sludge. Those who look and are wise enough to "stay out of it" have my respect, but albeit my respect for their non-participation. Those who have the spirit and the ability to ignore barbs, not bite at bait, and (if there is one) focus on the matter being discussed and utterly ignore the whirlwind of distractions... those people are towers in a storm.[/quote] 2. Use the report button wisely. If someone is being a jerk and crossing your line, then you should report them. I bet the Ninja's would much rather see too many posts in their report queue than members getting away with being jerks. 3. Lead by example. New members are going to look up to people with shiny bars, be the person that the new members want to be. Don't participate in the immaturity that some people display. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Coxx153 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 So, OT. Are we through here? Or are there new points/issues to be discussed?[/quote] We're through.[/quote]

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  • lol

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Bloodpit10 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi You can't see the hostility? You must be under a spell. Why am I not surprised you all have one thing in common.... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] easytomake [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jaythenerdkid [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] R3ACTlON [/quote][/quote]I know you're referring to the Sapphire, but I honestly didn't see any hostility in Harlow's post. I'm actually pretty sure that I'm in Sapphire's sears'd list and all I see in the OP is 100% truth. The hostility is the one and only reason I don't usually visit the main forums anymore. No matter what you say, if it's an opinion of some sort it [i]will[/i] get flamed. No matter what. I agree with him, the attitude of the community in this site is a problem which has driven many people, and will drive many people away. It needs to be fixed. [/quote] I think how the person treats people also is reflective of how we view their threads. Take this thread for example [Edited on 01.02.2013 10:42 AM PST]

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 Or are there new points/issues to be discussed?[/quote]Needles are pointy. We could discuss them.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Verachi You can't see the hostility? You must be under a spell. Why am I not surprised you all have one thing in common.... [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] easytomake [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] jaythenerdkid [/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] R3ACTlON [/quote][/quote]I know you're referring to the Sapphire, but I honestly didn't see any hostility in Harlow's post. I'm actually pretty sure that I'm in Sapphire's sears'd list and all I see in the OP is 100% truth. The hostility is the one and only reason I don't usually visit the main forums anymore. No matter what you say, if it's an opinion of some sort it [i]will[/i] get flamed. No matter what. I agree with him, the attitude of the community in this site is a problem which has driven many people, and will drive many people away. It needs to be fixed.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Number 54 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EAGLES5 We should just make Harlow a moderator. He seems to be good at patrolling the scary part of town.[/quote] If the coffee that I just spit on my screen short-circuits anything, I am SO going to sue you. So, OT. Are we through here? Or are there new points/issues to be discussed?[/quote] We're through.

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] EAGLES5 We should just make Harlow a moderator. He seems to be good at patrolling the scary part of town.[/quote] If the coffee that I just spit on my screen short-circuits anything, I am SO going to sue you. So, OT. Are we through here? Or are there new points/issues to be discussed?

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  • [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] spartain ken 15 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Recon Zero Nine [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Halo biggest fan I see these comments in society a lot. If someone doesn't agree with you they are automatically inclined to be your enemy, and reply with their opinion on the subject; which is one of the biggest issues for flaming and insults on the Internet. The mods/Bungie can't do much to stop this, they aren't here to babysit every member and to make sure no one gets offended. Even if we had a small army of mods we couldn't do that. The only thing that you can do to these "offensive" comments would be to report them.[/quote] It depends what you think is "offensive" because I seem to remember Recon saying if it doesn't break the rules and you report it you can get banned. Which is why I don't report anything just to be safe.[/quote] Each situation is different and the mods use common sense when issuing bans. If someone is reported for having a different opinion but doesn't break the rules, they won't get banned. [/quote] Yeah, but what i'm saying is I report you lets say because you said something that is offensive to me but doesn't break the rules and they see that then I get banned not you.[/quote] Technically the rules say "don't be a jerk" so if I said something offensive I would be breaking the rules. The only way i see around it is if I said something that was not meant to be offensive but was taken the wrong way or the person who posted it did not mean it in the sense of how it was presented. This happens a lot and it is no big deal. People like to joke, kid around, but sometimes it can go too far. But I think if you get offended by something, it is best to ignore it and report it. If it continues to happen, report it to a ninja. The problem is if people learn they can get away with saying stuff, they will keep doing it. [/quote] Until they get bored or cross a line. I can pester someone well below the line of the rules and get a heated reaction from them, and I will keep doing it. However, if I am ignored, I'll get bored. I don't even know why I am explaining this. What you said is technically right, but short-sighted. Yes, people will skirt the line, but only if it suits them. You ignore this part, so you argument isn't really valid. Besides, you didn't even make an argument. The only thing I can really extrapolate from your post is that you want people punished for getting away with being a jerk. Might not be what you were trying to say, but you need to clarify.

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  • We should just make Harlow a moderator. He seems to be good at patrolling the scary part of town.

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