[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 I promise that most true halo fans will take the word of someone that has played the game hands rather than someone sitting behind a keyboard spouting imaginary nothings. [/quote] And so what if someone who played it says it sucks...? What then?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] cameo_cream [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] omg a bannana [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 seeing as how I have actually played halo 4 and you have not... Halo 4 is nothing like halo reach, your entire argument is invalid. [/quote]Because you can tell that from 15 minutes of gameplay.[/quote] Actually i have played so many halo's for so long that yes, I can tell that in 15 minutes. I could have done it in 5[/quote] I played Halo since CE before I touched Reach. And after 15 minutes I had no idea if it was bad or not. Argument = Invalid[/quote] Yeah yeah and I have played since halo PC trial edition. Halo 4 is balanced just fine. My personal experience coupled with the HOURS of game play i watched live from 16 different perspectives waiting in line tells me i'm right and your wrong.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] omg a bannana [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 seeing as how I have actually played halo 4 and you have not... Halo 4 is nothing like halo reach, your entire argument is invalid. [/quote]Because you can tell that from 15 minutes of gameplay.[/quote] Actually i have played so many halo's for so long that yes, I can tell that in 15 minutes. I could have done it in 5[/quote] No. No, you can not. And now this invalidates what you said above. [/quote] As i covered above you literary have negative knowledge about how the game plays. You have not played it and are going in with jumped to conclusion BS. I went in knowing nothing at comic con and had no such BS before playing it. You are just wrong. I know that that can be a hard thing to get someone to admit on the internet but i know your wrong and that's good enough for me. I promise that most true halo fans will take the word of someone that has played the game hands rather than someone sitting behind a keyboard spouting imaginary nothings. [Edited on 10.09.2012 6:35 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] omg a bannana [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 seeing as how I have actually played halo 4 and you have not... Halo 4 is nothing like halo reach, your entire argument is invalid. [/quote]Because you can tell that from 15 minutes of gameplay.[/quote] Actually i have played so many halo's for so long that yes, I can tell that in 15 minutes. I could have done it in 5[/quote] I played Halo since CE before I touched Reach. And after 15 minutes I had no idea if it was bad or not. Argument = Invalid

I liked Halo Reach. So I guess this means I'll like Halo 4.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] omg a bannana [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 seeing as how I have actually played halo 4 and you have not... Halo 4 is nothing like halo reach, your entire argument is invalid. [/quote]Because you can tell that from 15 minutes of gameplay.[/quote] Actually i have played so many halo's for so long that yes, I can tell that in 15 minutes. I could have done it in 5[/quote] No. No, you can not. And now this invalidates what you said above.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] A 3 Legged Goat [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 If you hated/dislsiked Halo Reach, what the hell is going to make you like Halo 4? Halo 4 basically has everything bad that Halo Reach has and more.[/quote] I didn't hate Reach because it changed. I hated Reach because the change was poorly designed, contradictory, and ultimately led to a frustrating and punishing experience. If Halo 4 does what Reach tried to do better, then I will enjoy it. [/quote] I'm in the same boat as goat. But 343i has the oars.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] erikinax1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote][/quote] AAs: look like -blam!- in Halo 4 Maps: look unoriginal, messy, and promotes bad play Flags: hold it while shooting? In a game like Halo? Really? Middle finger to team work. Multiplayer is going to be hectic mess. [/quote] AA's in halo 4 are balanced and perfectly fine The maps are very good and promote game play at all engagement ranges. The flag pistol is under powered and doesn't ruin the team element. You literary have negative knowledge.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] omg a bannana [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] shadow 2648 seeing as how I have actually played halo 4 and you have not... Halo 4 is nothing like halo reach, your entire argument is invalid. [/quote]Because you can tell that from 15 minutes of gameplay.[/quote] Actually i have played so many halo's for so long that yes, I can tell that in 15 minutes. I could have done it in 5

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] erikinax1 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote][/quote] AAs: look like -blam!- in Halo 4 Maps: look unoriginal, messy, and promotes bad play Flags: hold it while shooting? In a game like Halo? Really? Middle finger to team work. Multiplayer is going to be hectic mess.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 the problem with Reach was that its changes were poorly implemented, and the game play changes such as reduced speed, jump heights, etc. were better the way they were before. Armor abilities are not inherently bad, Bungie just didn't implement them very well. Halo 4 brings back Halo 3 style gameplay, while improving on Reach's armor abilities. I think it has a lot of promise to be much better than either 3 or Reach. [/quote] You cannot say that Halo 4 will be like Halo 3 just because run speed and jump height is back to default and the BR is back. Yeah there are some other things but when things like loadouts and armor abilities enter the fray, it will not compare. These structural, fundamental changes from the original three create a completely new type of FPS. [/quote] I don't find things like AA and perks to be fundamental because they do not fundamentally alter or even decide whether or not I kill someone. Outside of a few rare instances, I hardly notice them at all. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LaDavid [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 Then what was the whole scene in Halo 2 with the Gravemind all about? This is the part where the Arbiter finds out the truth behind Truth's goals, or as you put it: "teachings." At that point, when he decided to point his gun at the brutes and essentially the covenant as a whole, he no longer believed in Truth. This validates the logical argument that the Arbiter was, in fact, on the humans' side. I can only imagine the Elite's supposed hatred of humans came from their blind support of the covenant's goals. There are a lot of pieces of evidence that support this as well, the biggest one (in my opinion) being when the Arbiter shakes the commander's hand with gratitude (or vice versa, but either way it was a very positive welcoming) at the supposed funeral of John 117 and Keyes. Other imagery include when the Chief and Arbiter are seen as keeping their backs to each other during the final cutscenes, essentially looking out for one another. This isn't real life and in a rhetorical perspective is easy to define that as a subtle message indicating that they are comrades/friends. [/quote] But that was just the Arbiter that did those things. I would also think that it would be safe to assume that there would still be unfriendly factions within the elite society even when there is a treaty or whatever. [/quote] I don't know man. I told you what I think and it has me convinced. But obviously something did happen if they are back and against the humans. Perhaps some sort of struggle for dominance or something. Fck if I know. [/quote] One side is "friendly" with us, another side still hates us, and you've got everyone in between. The side that hates us is on Requiem.[/quote] It's not about whether you kill them or not, it's about [i]how[/i] you kill them. Halo Reach's playing field is [i]completely[/i] different than the previous titles. [/quote] Not in my experience. Anytime someone tries to use an an Armor Ability in a fight, they end up dying (unless it's evade, which is a pretty big deal and nerfed to hell for H4 as thruster pack, or armorlock, but as we all know, -blam!- armor lock). I've never had an engagement that I can recall effected to really any degree by any of the other AA's. But how I kill them shouldn't matter. What matters is that I killed them. I don't care if I had to toss a grenade at a HL shield user, or if I had to look up to see a jetpacker. They're dead, I'm not, game over. The objective is to kill him before he kills you, it says nothing about how. Everything else is just details. Sometimes it really is just that simple.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] alex0612 Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

Why Halo: Reach was bad. Bloom: It just destroyed the skill needed in engagements. I made the DMR nearly useless. It also slowed down the game. AAs: They were done poorly. Armor Lock is 'nuff said. Sprint allowed you to run away from loosing battles. Maps: They were mosly terrible because Bungie had no idea what they were doing or were rushed. They were not tailored towards AAs. Grenades: Blast radius over laps fuse time. Halo 4 doesn't have those thing as far as I'm concerned.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ROBERTO jh [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 the problem with Reach was that its changes were poorly implemented, and the game play changes such as reduced speed, jump heights, etc. were better the way they were before. Armor abilities are not inherently bad, Bungie just didn't implement them very well. Halo 4 brings back Halo 3 style gameplay, while improving on Reach's armor abilities. I think it has a lot of promise to be much better than either 3 or Reach. [/quote] You cannot say that Halo 4 will be like Halo 3 just because run speed and jump height is back to default and the BR is back. Yeah there are some other things but when things like loadouts and armor abilities enter the fray, it will not compare. These structural, fundamental changes from the original three create a completely new type of FPS. [/quote] I don't find things like AA and perks to be fundamental because they do not fundamentally alter or even decide whether or not I kill someone. Outside of a few rare instances, I hardly notice them at all. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LaDavid [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 Then what was the whole scene in Halo 2 with the Gravemind all about? This is the part where the Arbiter finds out the truth behind Truth's goals, or as you put it: "teachings." At that point, when he decided to point his gun at the brutes and essentially the covenant as a whole, he no longer believed in Truth. This validates the logical argument that the Arbiter was, in fact, on the humans' side. I can only imagine the Elite's supposed hatred of humans came from their blind support of the covenant's goals. There are a lot of pieces of evidence that support this as well, the biggest one (in my opinion) being when the Arbiter shakes the commander's hand with gratitude (or vice versa, but either way it was a very positive welcoming) at the supposed funeral of John 117 and Keyes. Other imagery include when the Chief and Arbiter are seen as keeping their backs to each other during the final cutscenes, essentially looking out for one another. This isn't real life and in a rhetorical perspective is easy to define that as a subtle message indicating that they are comrades/friends. [/quote] But that was just the Arbiter that did those things. I would also think that it would be safe to assume that there would still be unfriendly factions within the elite society even when there is a treaty or whatever. [/quote] I don't know man. I told you what I think and it has me convinced. But obviously something did happen if they are back and against the humans. Perhaps some sort of struggle for dominance or something. Fck if I know. [/quote] One side is "friendly" with us, another side still hates us, and you've got everyone in between. The side that hates us is on Requiem.[/quote] It's not about whether you kill them or not, it's about [i]how[/i] you kill them. Halo Reach's playing field is [i]completely[/i] different than the previous titles.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 the problem with Reach was that its changes were poorly implemented, and the game play changes such as reduced speed, jump heights, etc. were better the way they were before. Armor abilities are not inherently bad, Bungie just didn't implement them very well. Halo 4 brings back Halo 3 style gameplay, while improving on Reach's armor abilities. I think it has a lot of promise to be much better than either 3 or Reach. [/quote] You cannot say that Halo 4 will be like Halo 3 just because run speed and jump height is back to default and the BR is back. Yeah there are some other things but when things like loadouts and armor abilities enter the fray, it will not compare. These structural, fundamental changes from the original three create a completely new type of FPS. [/quote] I don't find things like AA and perks to be fundamental because they do not fundamentally alter or even decide whether or not I kill someone. Outside of a few rare instances, I hardly notice them at all. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LaDavid [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 Then what was the whole scene in Halo 2 with the Gravemind all about? This is the part where the Arbiter finds out the truth behind Truth's goals, or as you put it: "teachings." At that point, when he decided to point his gun at the brutes and essentially the covenant as a whole, he no longer believed in Truth. This validates the logical argument that the Arbiter was, in fact, on the humans' side. I can only imagine the Elite's supposed hatred of humans came from their blind support of the covenant's goals. There are a lot of pieces of evidence that support this as well, the biggest one (in my opinion) being when the Arbiter shakes the commander's hand with gratitude (or vice versa, but either way it was a very positive welcoming) at the supposed funeral of John 117 and Keyes. Other imagery include when the Chief and Arbiter are seen as keeping their backs to each other during the final cutscenes, essentially looking out for one another. This isn't real life and in a rhetorical perspective is easy to define that as a subtle message indicating that they are comrades/friends. [/quote] But that was just the Arbiter that did those things. I would also think that it would be safe to assume that there would still be unfriendly factions within the elite society even when there is a treaty or whatever. [/quote] I don't know man. I told you what I think and it has me convinced. But obviously something did happen if they are back and against the humans. Perhaps some sort of struggle for dominance or something. Fck if I know. [/quote] One side is "friendly" with us, another side still hates us, and you've got everyone in between. The side that hates us is on Requiem. [Edited on 10.09.2012 5:54 PM PDT]

I've added a question at the bottom of my OP for added discussion. :0

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] WhiteFang0699 You guys are just pitiful.[/quote] You found time to post this? ? ? ?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] LaDavid [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 Then what was the whole scene in Halo 2 with the Gravemind all about? This is the part where the Arbiter finds out the truth behind Truth's goals, or as you put it: "teachings." At that point, when he decided to point his gun at the brutes and essentially the covenant as a whole, he no longer believed in Truth. This validates the logical argument that the Arbiter was, in fact, on the humans' side. I can only imagine the Elite's supposed hatred of humans came from their blind support of the covenant's goals. There are a lot of pieces of evidence that support this as well, the biggest one (in my opinion) being when the Arbiter shakes the commander's hand with gratitude (or vice versa, but either way it was a very positive welcoming) at the supposed funeral of John 117 and Keyes. Other imagery include when the Chief and Arbiter are seen as keeping their backs to each other during the final cutscenes, essentially looking out for one another. This isn't real life and in a rhetorical perspective is easy to define that as a subtle message indicating that they are comrades/friends. [/quote] But that was just the Arbiter that did those things. I would also think that it would be safe to assume that there would still be unfriendly factions within the elite society even when there is a treaty or whatever. [/quote] I don't know man. I told you what I think and it has me convinced. But obviously something did happen if they are back and against the humans. Perhaps some sort of struggle for dominance or something. Fck if I know.

You guys are just pitiful.

If Halo 4 is Halo Reach, then I will still buy.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ben2974 Then what was the whole scene in Halo 2 with the Gravemind all about? This is the part where the Arbiter finds out the truth behind Truth's goals, or as you put it: "teachings." At that point, when he decided to point his gun at the brutes and essentially the covenant as a whole, he no longer believed in Truth. This validates the logical argument that the Arbiter was, in fact, on the humans' side. I can only imagine the Elite's supposed hatred of humans came from their blind support of the covenant's goals. There are a lot of pieces of evidence that support this as well, the biggest one (in my opinion) being when the Arbiter shakes the commander's hand with gratitude (or vice versa, but either way it was a very positive welcoming) at the supposed funeral of John 117 and Keyes. Other imagery include when the Chief and Arbiter are seen as keeping their backs to each other during the final cutscenes, essentially looking out for one another. This isn't real life and in a rhetorical perspective is easy to define that as a subtle message indicating that they are comrades/friends. [/quote] But that was just the Arbiter that did those things. I would also think that it would be safe to assume that there would still be unfriendly factions within the elite society even when there is a treaty or whatever. [Edited on 10.05.2012 5:57 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Darthbill99 the problem with Reach was that its changes were poorly implemented, and the game play changes such as reduced speed, jump heights, etc. were better the way they were before. Armor abilities are not inherently bad, Bungie just didn't implement them very well. Halo 4 brings back Halo 3 style gameplay, while improving on Reach's armor abilities. I think it has a lot of promise to be much better than either 3 or Reach. [/quote] You cannot say that Halo 4 will be like Halo 3 just because run speed and jump height is back to default and the BR is back. Yeah there are some other things but when things like loadouts and armor abilities enter the fray, it will not compare. These structural, fundamental changes from the original three create a completely new type of FPS.

the problem with Reach was that its changes were poorly implemented, and the game play changes such as reduced speed, jump heights, etc. were better the way they were before. Armor abilities are not inherently bad, Bungie just didn't implement them very well. Halo 4 brings back Halo 3 style gameplay, while improving on Reach's armor abilities. I think it has a lot of promise to be much better than either 3 or Reach.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] The S bot 9000 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Banned Yet Again No it isn't [/quote] That counterargument is flawless. Truly superb. /sarcasm OT:I agree, and i'm not just saying that because it makes people's bottoms ache.[/quote]The elements is based off Reach but it will be different. Thats like saying Halo ODST is Halo 3. Saame elements but different gameplay. Halo 4 will have class customization, whereas Reach didn't Halo 4 will have armor affecting gameplay, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have sentries, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have different spawn timed weapons, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have insta spawn, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have killcam, Reach didn't Halo 4's infection will have Flood, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have Dominion, Reach didn't Halo 4 will have flag carrier using weapons, Reach didn't Halo 4 ranks will be progressed by experience, Reach didn't need I say more? And you can see how the gameplay will be different.

You have a good point, so for once I'll say we both understood each other rather than raging at each other.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] bergXX09 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] MrMassakka And please stop acting as if you fanboys are in the total minority, surrounded by haters. It's the other way.[/quote][/quote] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M]>>[/url] [Edited on 10.05.2012 5:06 PM PDT]