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InvasionImminent

InvasionImminent

8/15/2012 12:19:38 PM
[quote][b]DISCLAIMER[/b] From the maker of the all the other boring, useless threads that clogged this forum, I bring you yet another! Um, disclaimer. I get these threads started really late at night, so my spelling isn't as accurate as it may have been if I made this during the day. But most of you guys already know I have sleeping problems. Yet people get mad when I don't point little stuff like this out, so warning, possible grammar mistakes. [/quote] Now that we have the boring part out of the way, lets get to business. I posted a thread concerning Organic difficulty to Halo, which was a little over a month ago. I would find the thread but I'm lazy, so I'll just explain what Organic difficulty really is. It is a difficulty that is not selected before you start a game, but rather it is selected upon your actions. Creating a better sense of difficulty and challenge, and a smaller gap between pre-determined difficulties. So what does this have to do with Halo 2? Well, Halo 2 uses pre-determined difficulties so really this could go in any of the forums. But I like you guys the most, so I stick here. As for speaking of things that clearly aren't in Halo 2, nor ever will be, it's a forum. That's why we're here. As the title says, Difficulty isn't universal (Everyone is on different planes of what is a challenge and what isn't), but relative (Difficulty is something that everyone experiences). And yes, I know, the title is a bit confusing. I was against a writers corner. So, what could a developer do to fix this? Well in Halo, we have 4 pre-determined difficulties which have pretty large gaps. You guys are smart, you're typing in right now, "what about skulls?". Well, Bungie saw error in the difficulties (Shut up they did!) and added skulls. For the one or two people that...unfortunately, don't know what skulls are, they change certain functions related to gameplay. But there is flaw, as there is with every good idea. Skulls only jack the difficulty up, none of them lower the difficulty already present. This sin't necessarily a bad thing if you're a seasoned veteran, or just a supreme badass. But for others, they play without a comfortable difficulty. Once again, you're smart, you'e typing in saying, "But players need a challenge! They should get better!". Good point. No, that's an excellent point. Though I see it differently. That player is [i]forced[/i], yes forced, to improve. Nothing bad here, But once he finds Heroic mode not too hard, he'll move one to Legendary. Player progression isn't bad, but people bring it up as if it's all peachy and fun. Adapting to Heroic from Normal isn't too difficulty IMO. However, adapting from Heroic to Legendary is [i]veeery[/i] hard. This is where msot people bring up the fact that Legendary is the highest difficulty, and only 1337 players should attempt it. But if Organic difficulty was in-game, you would be able to fine tune Legendary or Heroic. But that isn't to say that Halo is barren of Organic difficulty. You can choose a weaker weapon. You can use skulls. But that's about it. Speaking of skulls, this is where they actually come into good use, and not just agonizing symbols of hatred. Instead of jumping to Legendary, you could switch a few skulls on and stay on Heroic. yet skull selection is kind of bad, as there are few skulls and there effects are sort of bland, and don't affect a player that much if he/she has already mastered a difficulty. This is my opinion of course, but I have trouble seeing it differently. Of course SLASO does exist, yet few have actually mastered Legendary, so I don't consider it a "true" difficulty. ------------------------------------------------------------ Feel free to post feedback. Tell me how I'm driving, all that good stuff. Was this thread unnecessary? Was this just clutter, or was all of this just obvious common knowledge? I don't know, feel free to post. As always, more will be updated to the OP as I see fit. Stay sexy!

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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    8/17/2012 9:05:43 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] swvjdirector THe best button-presser in the world could be decent at multiplayer, but if he's not good at actually thinking out what he'll do, he's still going to suck. The same is true of the campaign.[/quote]Amen. H2 SLASO: you could take the fight to the enemy, you could bring enemies to you, you could get a height advantage over enemy snipers, you could stealth AI in certain circumstances H3 SLASO: Jackals suffered from battery drain, you could get Jackals to overcharge their plasma pistols by throwing a grenade at them, you could get a height advantage over enemy snipers, you could stealth AI, invincible AI as distraction, AI gunners There were various ways of blindsiding AI in H3 (i.e. pop shot, range shot). [b]The blindsiding methods exposed AI flaws. But instead of improving the AI, Bungie just killed these tactics and made the AI bigger cheaters. They also killed pet Jackals instead of making it less effective.[/b] Nonetheless, when I managed to pull off a blindsiding tactic, I was definitely satisfied. One guy, MichaelWSmith did the entire H3 campaign SLASO without any major skipping. I think that's damn impressive. Anyways, now we have: Reach SLASO: hologram, drop shield, jetpack, needle rifle, plasma pistol, invincible AI to do the work, AI gunners And 343 have botched it up as well (but not as badly as Reach. Foreign is one of the main contributors and if it didn't exist, CEA SLASO might not have been so bad): CEA SLASO: grenade spam, infinite ammo What distinguishes these 2 from H2 and H3? Design. You can try to do unique things and you only get punished for it. You have to play by the rules, by the inevitable. [Edited on 08.17.2012 1:20 AM PDT]
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    ZealotSG

    ZealotSG

    8/17/2012 8:52:43 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] InvasionImminent But there is flaw, as there is with every good idea. Skulls only jack the difficulty up, none of them lower the difficulty already present.[/quote]Too much lowering makes it really boring. *looks at CEA* Of course, too much raising makes it really unpleasant. *looks at H3/ODST/Reach* The game that introduced the skulls had the right balance (and number): Advantageous: Envy, Black Eye, Catch, GBD Disadvantageous: Ghost, Assassins, Famine, Iron Either way: Thunderstorm, Sputnik, Mythic, Armory, Angry Fun: IWHBYD Theater: Blind [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] InvasionImminent But if Organic difficulty was in-game, you would be able to fine tune Legendary or Heroic. But that isn't to say that Halo is barren of Organic difficulty. You can choose a weaker weapon. You can use skulls. But that's about it.[/quote]Using weaker weapons is sadly no longer valid in newer Halo games. Turning on skulls is very limited. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] InvasionImminent yet skull selection is kind of bad, as there are few skulls and there effects are sort of bland, and don't affect a player that much if he/she has already mastered a difficulty. This is my opinion of course, but I have trouble seeing it differently. Of course SLASO does exist, yet few have actually mastered Legendary, so I don't consider it a "true" difficulty.[/quote]Yes they are bland. The worst part about skulls in newer games: they can't be turned off without restarting the level. Most skulls now have side effects, often unwanted side effects. In H2, I could turn on/off skulls, making setups much more convenient (but the checkpoint system marred this convenience). In H3 and Reach, I have to make dozens of game saves that are essentially the same battle with a few minor differences. A big time waster. [Edited on 08.17.2012 12:53 AM PDT]
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    InvasionImminent

    InvasionImminent

    8/15/2012 1:51:04 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] swvjdirector This is all very interesting, but I'm not really sure I see the point you're trying to prove here.[/quote] It's more of me bringing an open idea to be discussed, but your following words sum it up quite nicely. [quote]"Difficulty is determined by the player, not the game"? [/quote] Indeed, this thread is geared for Campaign, but the philosophy applies to MP as well.
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    swvjdirector

    swvjdirector

    8/15/2012 1:44:05 PM Permalink
    This is all very interesting, but I'm not really sure I see the point you're trying to prove here. Are you just saying "Difficulty is determined by the player, not the game"? If that's the case, then I agree. I think a big facet in difficulty is how well a player can think out a situation. THe best button-presser in the world could be decent at multiplayer, but if he's not good at actually thinking out what he'll do, he's still going to suck. The same is true of the campaign.
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