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6/28/2012 6:52:29 PM
223
Germany bans circumcisision = Unhappy people
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish]German court rules that procedure is bodily harm and contravenes right to choose religion in later life[/url]
Do you agree with Germany on banning the practice? Do you wish you had the choice of what you wanted to do instead of living with your parents choice?
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I'm glad my parents didn't do it to me. It's one of the dumbest practices that have survived so long.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles You're implying that a fetus isn't a person. A person cannot be without previously being a fetus. This means that a fetus is one of the early stages of being human. Therefore, it has the right to life.[/quote]You conclusion doesn't follow from your premise. [quote]Secondly, women don't have the right to control their bodies if it's at the expense of someone else's.[/quote]And neither does a fetus have the right to exist at the cost of the woman's physical autonomy. I have a right to not donate blood, even if me refusing to do so directly results in the death of someone else. [quote]Oh, and how did you come up with that analogy? A woman has the choice in having a child.[/quote]Not if she can't get an abortion. Which is why I am "pro-choice" and you are "anti-choice", because you don't think woman should have a choice in the use of their bodies. Which makes you morally equivalent to a r@pe apologist.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles Try and dehumanize the fetus all you want, but the fact of the matter remains simple: From the moment of conception, that baby is growing and developing.[/quote]I don't care. It isn't a person, and it has no right to life. [quote]Oh, and quick side-question: Why do people think that women have the right to murder someone else because of a poor decision that they made?[/quote]It isn't murder. Women have the right to control their own bodies. The reason a woman has the right to an abortion is the exact same reason she has a right to not be raped.[/quote] You're implying that a fetus isn't a person. A person cannot be without previously being a fetus. This means that a fetus is one of the early stages of being human. Therefore, it has the right to life. Secondly, women don't have the right to control their bodies if it's at the expense of someone else's. Oh, and how did you come up with that analogy? A woman has the choice in having a child. The same cannot be said about -blam!-.
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Good. Wouldn't want my parents to start cuttin' down there without my consent, that's for sure.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles Try and dehumanize the fetus all you want, but the fact of the matter remains simple: From the moment of conception, that baby is growing and developing.[/quote]I don't care. It isn't a person, and it has no right to life. [quote]Oh, and quick side-question: Why do people think that women have the right to murder someone else because of a poor decision that they made?[/quote]It isn't murder. Women have the right to control their own bodies. The reason a woman has the right to an abortion is the exact same reason she has a right to not be raped.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles Oh, and quick side-question: Why do people think that women have the right to murder someone else because of a poor decision that they made?[/quote] News flash, being r@ped and possibly dying of child birth counts as poor decisions.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] PandaJerk007 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] NSCLord [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RECON828 By that logic, surgery is bodily harm and should be outlawed.[/quote]Circumcision does not help you in any way, shape or form.[/quote][url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18549968]"Research by the UN has suggested male circumcision can reduce the spread of HIV and Aids. A report by UNAids and the World Health Organisation (WHO) said the risk of HIV infection among men could be reduced by 60%."[/url][/quote]If you shove your dick into an aids infested hole, you will receive no sympathy from me.
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And in reference to my earlier post about circumcision and HIV/STDs: [url=http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm]CDC recommends circumcision[/url] [quote]Several types of research have documented that male circumcision significantly reduces the risk of HIV acquisition by men during penile--blam!-l sex.[/quote]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles It's not about its inability to think or feel. It's about the fact that people are taking away the life of a soon-to-be child.[/quote]So? The life of an impersonal, completely dependent organism is no grounds for taking away from women the right to control their own body.[/quote] Try and dehumanize the fetus all you want, but the fact of the matter remains simple: From the moment of conception, that baby is growing and developing. Oh, and quick side-question: Why do people think that women have the right to murder someone else because of a poor decision that they made? [Edited on 06.28.2012 6:41 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater Cut and happy over here. Tbh, this violates people's right Circumcisions might not always be perfect. Mine dangles a little bit off to the right? Do I care? NOPE. I'm a religious person, but being forced to get this as an adult, fully self aware would be horrifying. Almost no one in their right mind would want to do it. The thing is, I can guarantee you that most of the people who wouldn't want it was an adult would've had it done on them as a kid. This law, in effect, stifles religious freedom. [/quote]Your "religious freedom" does not give you the right to mutilate infants.[/quote] By taking away my right to be circumcised, you are in effect taking my right to be religious. No one in their right mind would get circumcised as an adult because it is exponentially more dangerous and much harder to heal. I'd, in effect, forced to be atheist, because being religious would mean huge bodily harm. Besides, all the statistics on botched circumcisions are BULL-blam!-. 90% of the time, small mistakes will heal naturally. Now I don't have to worry about my dick looking like an autistic ant eater.[/quote]There's nothing wrong with being circumcised as an adult and you're overexagerating the pain. What you fear is that you won't be able to play with your little willy for a few weeks. Your dick was made the way it was for a reason and when engaging into intercourse, the foreskin pulls back becoming essentially a cut dick with none of the downsides.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater I'd, in effect, forced to be atheist, because being religious would mean huge bodily harm.[/quote] I'm sorry, what? Not letting religious people to circumcise their child doesn't mean they can't believe in their God. Where did you get that crap idea?
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles It's not about its inability to think or feel. It's about the fact that people are taking away the life of a soon-to-be child.[/quote]So? The life of an impersonal, completely dependent organism is no grounds for taking away from women the right to control their own body.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater By taking away my right to be circumcised, you are in effect taking my right to be religious.[/quote]No I'm not. [quote][u]No one in their right mind would get circumcised as an adult[/u] because it is exponentially more dangerous and much harder to heal.[/quote]No doubt. [quote]I'd, in effect, forced to be atheist, because being religious would mean huge bodily harm.[/quote]You can't seriously be this misinformed.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Connor CMC Besides the jews, who cares? Just take a family trip to Switzerland.[/quote] Im jewish and i honestly couldnt care less...
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Municipal Bonds [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles This is, once again, arbitrarily defining the point at which a baby can be killed at. You may not call it a murder, but the baby is very much alive and developing at said point.[/quote] To me, personally, I have no problems with abortion up to the end of the first trimester. Before that, it does not have a fully functioning brain or heart. It can't feel or think. I find it analagous to pulling the plug on a person in an irreversible coma.[/quote] It's not about its inability to think or feel. It's about the fact that people are taking away the life of a soon-to-be child.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Municipal Bonds [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ric_Adbur Strictly speaking, circumcision [i]is[/i] indefensible from an ethical standpoint. Infants are not capable of the informed consent required to allow such an irreversible alteration to their bodies.[/quote] Legally speaking, parents are allowed to make decisions that affect children, even those that affect their bodies.[/quote] I have little regard for the law. Codifying something into law is no guarantee of it's ethical or moral merit. In fact, I'm certain we could all think of multiple examples of unjust or unethical laws without expending too much effort.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater Cut and happy over here. Tbh, this violates people's right Circumcisions might not always be perfect. Mine dangles a little bit off to the right? Do I care? NOPE. I'm a religious person, but being forced to get this as an adult, fully self aware would be horrifying. Almost no one in their right mind would want to do it. The thing is, I can guarantee you that most of the people who wouldn't want it was an adult would've had it done on them as a kid. This law, in effect, stifles religious freedom. [/quote]Your "religious freedom" does not give you the right to mutilate infants.[/quote] By taking away my right to be circumcised, you are in effect taking my right to be religious. No one in their right mind would get circumcised as an adult because it is exponentially more dangerous and much harder to heal. I'd, in effect, forced to be atheist, because being religious would mean huge bodily harm. Besides, all the statistics on botched circumcisions are BULL-blam!-. 90% of the time, small mistakes will heal naturally. Now I don't have to worry about my dick looking like an autistic ant eater.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles This is, once again, arbitrarily defining the point at which a baby can be killed at. You may not call it a murder, but the baby is very much alive and developing at said point.[/quote] To me, personally, I have no problems with abortion up to the end of the first trimester. Before that, it does not have a fully functioning brain or heart. It can't feel or think. I find it analagous to pulling the plug on a person in an irreversible coma.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Baph117 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles Your argument with me is done? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're the one that's fine with arbitrarily defining points at which humans can and cannot be murdered at.[/quote]Implying that abortion is murder. Which it isn't, but nice try.[/quote] I typically don't ask this (for I'm very much against people using the troll card during debates), but are you trolling me? This is, once again, arbitrarily defining the point at which a baby can be killed at. You may not call it a murder, but the baby is very much alive and developing at said point.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Ric_Adbur Strictly speaking, circumcision [i]is[/i] indefensible from an ethical standpoint. Infants are not capable of the informed consent required to allow such an irreversible alteration to their bodies.[/quote] Legally speaking, parents are allowed to make decisions that affect children, even those that affect their bodies. But as a sidenote, no one has pointed out that circumcision has been shown to drastically decrease HIV/certain STD contraction rates.
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Jibreelinater Cut and happy over here. Tbh, this violates people's right Circumcisions might not always be perfect. Mine dangles a little bit off to the right? Do I care? NOPE. I'm a religious person, but being forced to get this as an adult, fully self aware would be horrifying. Almost no one in their right mind would want to do it. The thing is, I can guarantee you that most of the people who wouldn't want it was an adult would've had it done on them as a kid. This law, in effect, stifles religious freedom. [/quote]Your "religious freedom" does not give you the right to mutilate infants. [Edited on 06.28.2012 6:28 PM PDT]
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[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sir Charles Your argument with me is done? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're the one that's fine with arbitrarily defining points at which humans can and cannot be murdered at.[/quote]Implying that abortion is murder. Which it isn't, but nice try.
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Cut and happy over here. Tbh, this violates people's right Circumcisions might not always be perfect. Mine dangles a little bit off to the right? Do I care? NOPE. I'm a religious person, but being forced to get this as an adult, fully self aware would be horrifying. Almost no one in their right mind would want to do it. The thing is, I can guarantee you that most of the people who wouldn't want it was an adult would've had it done on them as a kid. This law, in effect, stifles religious freedom.
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Strictly speaking, circumcision [i]is[/i] indefensible from an ethical standpoint. Infants are not capable of the informed consent required to allow such an irreversible alteration to their bodies. One might make the argument that you can't miss what you never had, but I find that to be an intellectually-lazy stance. Could anyone seriously make the same claim if the custom instead was the amputation of the infant's left limb at birth? Obviously they have different degrees of severity and effects upon the life of those individuals, but the core argument is the same, ethically-speaking.
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How odd.
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Does the law just ban it being done at birth or without one's consent? Because there are certain medical conditions in which circumcision is the best or only treatment.
