Just beacuse you don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of. [Edited on 06.23.2012 2:30 PM PDT]

Nope! Only the crybabies still.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Just beacus eyou don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of.[/quote]Cannons are fun to shoot.

Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Just beacuse you don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of.[/quote] I have this one, let me just translate. "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't canon. Halo:Reach is canon, end of story. Good day." That being said, he's right. Unfortunately.

It's been said before, game canon overrides book canon.

Right here. It doesn't mean much, but will not accept Reach's bad canon over the novel. Of all the things that were so wrong with Reach, the one I hate the most is the canon aspect of it and how it buggered up the canon and continues to do so. But, what can you do?

Doesn't matter if you refuse it because it's canon whether you like it or not.

Yup. I don't even register Noble Team or Noble 6 as being canon. Dreadful characters. And since 343i already brought out a few excuses for how Bungie's turd fit's in with thousands of pages and images of already existing canon. I don't even have to think of Reach as canon. I can accept Nylund's version and still enjoy the later games.

I enjoy everything about Halo, its games and novels except for Reach. It came from nowhere and it feels all wrong in when its compared to the rest of the universe. No, I do not accept it pure canon. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 Yup. I don't even register Noble Team or Noble 6 as being canon. Dreadful characters. And since 343i already brought out a few excuses for how Bungie's turd fit's in with thousands of pages and images of already existing canon. I don't even have to think of Reach as canon. I can accept Nylund's version and still enjoy the later games.[/quote]

It's a retcon. Crying about it won't change that fact. Universe have been retconned before. Halo's case is nothing special.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Just beacuse you don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of.[/quote]

It's canon. Deal with it.

Nah, I'm good, thank you.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote]The scenario is different. Bioware claimed that ME3 would use ALL your choices in the end game and that there would be multiple different endings, no one would get the same ending and it's not choosing ending A, B, or C. They lied on all accounts. ME is a series where people play and get extremely immersed, our choices seemed to matter and changed the game accordingly. It was great. Halo is a set story of events, they're played out the same way. The game is more a Multiplayer than a Single Player experience. A better example would have been Fallout 3, a fan outcry got us Broken Steel, which let us continue the game past the ending.

Except there is no example of a relatively small group of disgruntled fans crying enough that an entire game was re-made with a new story contrary to what was intended in the original.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SurreallFeal When Halo Reach came out, the entire battle is on a much smaller scale, and simply doesn't feel as good. I understand that Nylund's version wouldn't make for much of a campaign, but at least the story is excellent. The Reach campaign just moves around too much and I can't seem to get myself to enjoy it. [/quote] The battle is not entirely on a smaller scale. THINK, you are seeing ONE person's viewpoint of it. You think Chief was part of every inch of fighting on New Mombasa? No. The entire city was in fighting. Chief hardly did anything in it. Same thing applies here. The battle is big, but Noble Six isn't involved in EVERY, SINGLE, aspect of it. Heck, if we go by the book, then the UNSC ground forces were hardly mobilized, and the Covenant literally overrun them without a problem. Would you rather play that? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote] Bar the fact 343 already released things to clear up the final major canon conflicts? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 Yup. I don't even register Noble Team or Noble 6 as being canon. Dreadful characters. And since 343i already brought out a few excuses for how Bungie's turd fit's in with thousands of pages and images of already existing canon. I don't even have to think of Reach as canon. I can accept Nylund's version and still enjoy the later games.[/quote] Dreadful how, and merely because you don't like it doesn't make the game story -blam!-. There are plenty who don't mind, or even like it. Hell I prefer it because you know, the UNSC ground forces ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. In the book, Reach's ground forces seem to have nothing, never mobilized and just got steamrolled into the ground. It's major locations overrun without difficulty. I can accept both the game and the book as canon. Neither is 100% utterly true, but neither outright goes "That one isn't saying the truth." Hell, IIRC, the re-released Fall of Reach book has Halsey mention specifically a line which points at the Reach events occurring something like "The Covenant arrived in full force today." and something about "I'd know more then you about that." *concerning Covenant attacks on Reach*

I wish I could find make them easily co-exist, but some of the things we're expected to believe are pretty far-fetched. For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement. Also, where was the UNSC fleet that's supposed to consist of [b]100-150[/b] ships when [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] was in orbit? You're telling me they couldn't take on one ship? and even if can be explained, Reach, the military hub of the UNSC, has [b]no nuclear weapons available[/b] as of August 14th?

Unfortunately we can't refuse it. It's been made. It's canon.

I personally can somewhat except halo reach as canon, but it clashes with Fall of Reach in multiple parts. For one, in the story, Cortana was on the Pillar of Autumn, but in the game Noble 6 gets it from Halsey who is in the underground area without any of the spartan-IIs and the reach crystal. Also, the Pillar of Autumn helps with the space battle in the book but then blasts off at the last second in the game. There are also a few other clashes, but overall I prefer the books telling of it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 I wish I could find make them easily co-exist, but some of the things we're expected to believe are pretty far-fetched. For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement. Also, where was the UNSC fleet that's supposed to consist of [b]100-150[/b] ships when [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] was in orbit? You're telling me they couldn't take on one ship? and even if can be explained, Reach, the military hub of the UNSC, has [b]no nuclear weapons available[/b] as of August 14th?[/quote] [quote]"CO is making me ride shotgun again on Soda so I'm running a final weapons check to make sure none of the system faults we saw yesterday are still red. Can you have maintenance look at the cylinder head on M910 serial A5883? I filed a report earlier about a leak and we're still seeing fluid seeping out into space... a ton of it! Not sure why the hell they won't get off their asses to fix it, but now Keyes has seen it and he's fired up. They'd better get things sorted before we get back. Also, was there some sort of fireworks celebration planned for today that I don't know about? [b]Our geosynch req's got us holding steady over Lábatlan, but I swear I saw something flare up over Eposz few minutes ago. We're way too far to confirm though. My condo's in New Alexandria. I'll have to ask Candace if she saw anything when we get back." [/b] ABIAD // 25190-26374-RA[/quote] Bolded part is about the Long Night of Solace being destroyed by the Slipspace bomb. [quote]"Can you please get Casimir Station on the line for me again? Cortana's running through theta right now so I'm trying to check our sensor matrix before it cycles, but [b]I'm noticing some heavy EM readings bouncing off Turul and I'm not sure what to make of it. CTR3 says it's fine, but I've seen fine before and this ain't it. These numbers...they're through the damn roof! Is this why FLEETCOM won't let us out from Lábatlan? Bridge crew is starting to ask questions and the captain's gonna be here in a few. I'd like a reason for why we're parked in all of this heavy traffic with the rest of the fleet instead of pushing out pass the moon and I don't want that scripted crap about their relay being down. Get someone out there to fix the damn thing already if it's holding up this much traffic!"[/b] LOVELL // 78349-90983-WL[/quote] Bolded part talks about the Covenant small fleet attacking after the Long Night of Solace and how ONI kept the fleet at the other side of Reach with the excuse of the relay (who in the game was said by Kat that it would take weeks to be fixed, mind you). So...anything else?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TedToaster22 I wish I could find make them easily co-exist, but some of the things we're expected to believe are pretty far-fetched. For example, think of how interconnected our world is today. Someone explain to me how ONI was able to keep people on the planet ignorant of the invasion up to August 30th, after 500 years of additional communications technology advancement. Also, where was the UNSC fleet that's supposed to consist of [b]100-150[/b] ships when [i]Long Night of Solace[/i] was in orbit? You're telling me they couldn't take on one ship? and even if can be explained, Reach, the military hub of the UNSC, has [b]no nuclear weapons available[/b] as of August 14th?[/quote] Parangosky's stupidity masks all, according to 343. To them, ONI has it's ways. Also, when Long Night of Solace was in orbit, the entire fleet and orbital platforms were on the other side of the world, according to the 343 released information. Completely in the dark. As for the nukes, we can hand-wave that as it's doubtful the Spartans would know exactly the payload left. Hell, they could've been in the dark about the fleet as much as the fleet was in the dark about them. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SHADOSTRIKER X I personally can somewhat except halo reach as canon, but it clashes with Fall of Reach in multiple parts. For one, in the story, Cortana was on the Pillar of Autumn, but in the game Noble 6 gets it from Halsey who is in the underground area without any of the spartan-IIs and the reach crystal. Also, the Pillar of Autumn helps with the space battle in the book but then blasts off at the last second in the game. There are also a few other clashes, but overall I prefer the books telling of it.[/quote] Been confirmed, several times. Six picks up a PORTION of Cortana, which is taken to the PoA to merge with her larger self.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Flaming glacier [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] ferrrari Just beacuse you don't like it doesn't mean it's cannon. Halo reach is cannon end of.[/quote] I have this one, let me just translate. "Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't canon. Halo:Reach is canon, end of story. Good day." That being said, he's right. Unfortunately.[/quote] As much as I don't like it, Reach is canon. Although I could argue that because the novel became established canon before Reach existed, it takes precedence. But I can't argue with Bungie.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron[/quote] [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] RKOSNAKE[/quote] Thank you both for the replies, but I've got one more question. [b]Why[/b] keep the fleet in the dark and let the Covenant have their way with Reach for so long? I understand that the planet was being used by ONI for RED FLAG, but if that's true it makes no sense why when the [i]Fleet of Particular Justice[/i] arrived they would sacrifice the entire Epsilon Erandi Fleet for an already-deemed doomed planet. And even if [b]that[/b] was a part of RED FLAG, where was the PoA headed for before the fleet was recalled? And perhaps most importantly, why weren't they told this was all part of the plan so Keyes wouldn't send the S2s away on other missions? There reaches (lolpun) a point where I have to step back and wonder 1.) If 343i is trying to fix a story Bungie broke by adding in additional, new material (e.g. the Data Drops) 2.) Why Eric Nylund's simple, yet satisfying story was morphed in with all these new changes which create, what I feel, is an overall weaker story, without any explanation for the fans [Edited on 06.23.2012 9:11 PM PDT]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] SurreallFeal When Halo Reach came out, the entire battle is on a much smaller scale, and simply doesn't feel as good. I understand that Nylund's version wouldn't make for much of a campaign, but at least the story is excellent. The Reach campaign just moves around too much and I can't seem to get myself to enjoy it. [/quote] The battle is not entirely on a smaller scale. THINK, you are seeing ONE person's viewpoint of it. You think Chief was part of every inch of fighting on New Mombasa? No. The entire city was in fighting. Chief hardly did anything in it. Same thing applies here. The battle is big, but Noble Six isn't involved in EVERY, SINGLE, aspect of it. Heck, if we go by the book, then the UNSC ground forces were hardly mobilized, and the Covenant literally overrun them without a problem. Would you rather play that? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Sigma617 [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] DecepticonCobra Fan refusal of anything doesn't mean much. [/quote] Look what's happening to Mass Effect 3. If us Halo fans weren't so lazy we would have gotten a similar thing.[/quote] Bar the fact 343 already released things to clear up the final major canon conflicts? [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Gottalovec4 Yup. I don't even register Noble Team or Noble 6 as being canon. Dreadful characters. And since 343i already brought out a few excuses for how Bungie's turd fit's in with thousands of pages and images of already existing canon. I don't even have to think of Reach as canon. I can accept Nylund's version and still enjoy the later games.[/quote] Dreadful how, and merely because you don't like it doesn't make the game story -blam!-. There are plenty who don't mind, or even like it. Hell I prefer it because you know, the UNSC ground forces ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING. In the book, Reach's ground forces seem to have nothing, never mobilized and just got steamrolled into the ground. It's major locations overrun without difficulty. I can accept both the game and the book as canon. Neither is 100% utterly true, but neither outright goes "That one isn't saying the truth." Hell, IIRC, the re-released Fall of Reach book has Halsey mention specifically a line which points at the Reach events occurring something like "The Covenant arrived in full force today." and something about "I'd know more then you about that." *concerning Covenant attacks on Reach* [/quote] Dreadful because every single Noble Team character was a one sided cardboard cutout. And Emile and Jun never mattered to the story anyway. The only interesting character was Jorge, who was really just Kurt as a character and died before we got to know anything about him. And no, that quote isn't in the new Fall of Reach, because I've read it 5 times. The only thing they changed was the typo saying Reach was in 2542. And actually, considering it was supposed to be a HUMAN story of the loss of Reach and the death of millions, watching the UNSC get crushed would DO just that. I just think of Halo Reach as an ONI vid created for propaganda, that way I can enjoy how it actually happened in FoR.