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Chrome TaterTot

Chrome TaterTot

6/1/2012 1:30:52 AM
Hey everyone. My thread got locked before I had a chance to respond to you guys and despite my polite request to have it unlocked it appears it will remain so indefinitely. As such I've made this new one to at least assure you kind folks that I was listening and your typing wasn't for naught. I'd like to start by saying thanks to everyone who gave a response and took the time to read. If you don't want to read everything you can ctrl+F your name to see if I adress you directly. Let's get started. [quote]Posted by ThatOneJedi 1. Cortana was modified the suits firmware and for the jetpack, it's for low G environments so thats why we never really see him use it before. 2. Its a tiny bit like Specs Ops from MW. The difference is that it gets updated weekly with new missions for free and you get a bit of cinematics that help tell the UNSC Infinity's story. 3. It has Spartan-IVs use a holo deck like thing on the UNSC Infinity to train. I'm not sure if it'll be successful, I kind of hope so. 4. S-IV's, as we so far know, are adult volunteers, like the S-I program that wear a lightweight version thats similar to Mjolner. The S-IIIs and the remaining S-IIs were folded into this program.[/quote] Interesting stuff. But the jetpack is still not justified. There have been multiple times in the past where it would have been a valuable tool, and yet it was not even mentioned. The spartan ops actually sound fantastic, and are really what's saving the game at this point. The holo-deck is a nice way to add sensibility to the multiplayer, without stepping on the canon's toes. And as far as the S-IV's are concerned, how do they compare with S-II's statistically? Being adults who volunteered, they shouldn't be as tall or physically adept as chief would be, unless there was some sort explanation about advanced tech or some other type of thing. Though, I personally don't see something like that being explained very well canonically. [quote]Posted by ROBERTO jh It is mostly computer upgrades; the visuals are simply artistic changes to make it their own. It also allegedly gives him more room to maneuver.[/quote] Artistic vision/individuality does not justify a complete redux of his armor in my book. There needs to be something about him getting new/updated armor for that kind of drastic change to even come close to making sense. [quote]Posted by Sliding ghost I'm not a H4 lover but I'd be happy to provide reasons to get H4: -no Flood. The Flood after CE are easy/hard to kill for the wrong reasons. -no Firefight. Firefight is now all about fighting off swarming enemies. -no armor lock -there's an emphasis on story (though there's more appeal to mp players atm), meaning the campaign will be much better than Reach's -quick time events (limited) are better than first person cutscenes -H4 is 343's own work. They're not going to sabotage it or make it sub par like CEA. H4 is essentially 1) killing off things that have become stale or never had potential and 2) using trash/trashed assets that have potential (yes, armor abilities have it. They're just not done right and everything was centered around them i.e. players have slow movement speed because sprint exists). ODST implemented things properly: Firefight, part of a team, cinematics, first person cutscenes. Reach took them and used them so horribly. They're so -blam!- up that they can't be fixed. So I'm guessing cinematics will not show massive teases (a la TotS, Scarab on PoA), will not deprive us of gameplay, and will not force us to watch them (a la LNoS). We will not be forced to stand around and watch AI talk with each other. Teams are becoming stale. Having Arby as a partner or a bunch of unnamed friendly AI was more fun. [quote]Posted by: ROBERTO jh I know you can play solo, and if it is disc locked than you should be able to get it. Probably through automatically timed weekly updates. Most likely, however, you need at least silver so you can download each episode. You do not need to play cooporatively, it's just advised (what with the difficulty).[/quote] I certainly hope that's the case. I wouldn't want to go Gold just to access one feature in one game.[/quote] The lack of flood is a plus, since I'm personally completely sick of them. But the lack of firefight is a negative for me, since cooperative play is one of my favorite things in halo. However this can be compensated for by spartan ops to some degree. I also agree that we shouldn't have to be gold members to enjoy story related material. If that's the case then the game will have just convinced me against it's purchase. [quote]Posted by lime013 I hate how everybody bashed Reach for "canon errors" while Halo 4 is getting off the hook.[/quote] The potential canon errors are the main thing telling me I shouldn't buy this game. [quote]Posted by Cmdr DaeFaron Okay then, here, I'll give you two scenes completely made STUPID if that's true. A: Halo 2, when he took the bomb off Cairo. Would've been perfect place to show it. B: Halo 3, when he was BARELY hanging onto the dawn. Would've been perfect place to use it, even if it can't lift him in the atmosphere, it would've helped him secure his grip. I seriously, cannot buy this "It's always been there!" because it's NEVER, EVER been hinted at. Seriously, give me a pre-halo 4 place/thing/book/anything, that said Mark VI armor had a built in thruster pack. Edit: every time in the books we have the S2's in space, they use thruster packs. aka, they slip into a harness and have a backpack that is the thruster. It's not part of their armor. -------------------------------- And in Halo 4, those parts are much more pronounced. I see the back shoulder pieces on the torso, but they don't "Clearly" appear to be thrusters. Oh, and you know, Security helm in halo 3? Has a piece attached OVER those. So if they were always thrusters that'd be stupid as heck. http://www.halopedian.com/images/4/47/SecurityArmor.png That armor. If it was always thrusters/designed to 'pop out' and activate, it'd be impossible with that piece there. That seems to point more AGAINST "It was always thrusters" then not. Oh, and I still haven't been given anything that proves they were always there. Just the piece of the model 343 turned into thrusters when they redesigned Mark VI armor.[/quote] Sorry ROBERTO jh, but I have to agree completely with Cmdr DaeFaron, there is no way of justifying the "always been there" concept. The part that was transformed into thrusters on the armor was where I had always considered part of the suit's power source to be stored. Even if that wasn't the case, there is no support for them being thrusters. [quote]Posted by I Em I Raptor There is no legitimate excuse that makes any sense in terms of canon as to why Chief's armor is changed. 343, for absolutely no reason, changed it without considering the gaping hole it'd cause in the canon. -Cortana can't change it while he is in Cryo -Forward Unto Dawn doesn't have futuristic Spartan armor laying around -Even if there was new armor on the ship how did they fit it on? Its just silly "I wan't to be artistically expressive." This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John. According to me John's MJOLNIR Mk. VI looks the same way it did in Halo 2-3[/quote] Well said, sir.

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    Chrome TaterTot

    Chrome TaterTot

    6/9/2012 10:19:48 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] untamed_one Every spartan II has zero g thrusters and they always have. I highly doubt they will show up in gameplay unless theres some kind of space gameplay.[/quote] False completely and utterly. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] biggie1212969 Uh, you should buy it because it's a Halo game? If you were a true fan, then you would buy it, not because it felt the same as the other halo games, but because it's a Halo game.[/quote] There is no definition to a "true halo fan." I consider myself a true halo fan and I dislike many things in halo 4 as shown currently, and how things are in glasslands. I agree with the "try the game, then judge 343.".[/quote] There is no definition to a "true halo fan." I consider myself a true halo fan and I dislike many things in halo 4 as shown currently, and how things are in glasslands. I agree with the "try the game, then judge 343.".[/quote] Yes, we've mentioned already instances where space gameplay/footage could have benefited from jetpack use. And a true fan doesn't just "omnomnom" anything with the word halo on it; tools and lemmings do. A true fan looks at the scope of a work while proceeding forward and decides whether it would be more enjoyable to follow the series further and explore some of the new aspects, or let it die peacefully before it's memory is too tarnished by subpar additions. [Edited on 06.09.2012 2:20 AM PDT]
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    Fearing

    Fearing

    6/4/2012 3:06:42 PM Permalink
    Lord I really hope the E3 demo of this game shows the promised in-story explanation for the armor change so people will stop -blam!-ing about it somehow breaking canon when they don't even know the story behind it yet. The teaser trailer was said to be not necessarily story canon, so he may not even have that armor at that point of the game for all we know. It was just made to give a representation of the game.
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    Another Nephron

    Another Nephron

    6/4/2012 2:31:38 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Cmdr DaeFaron I agree with the "try the game, then judge 343.".[/quote] As do I, however there are some turns that the story, visuals, audio and mutiplayer that leave me reluctant to get my hopes up too much. Then again, there are certain aspects that I am quite looking forward to finding out more about as well. Hopefully E3 will shed a bit more light on certain things. I'm content to bide my time for now, and make a decision on buying or simply borrowing the game closer to the release date.
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    Cmdr DaeFaron

    Cmdr DaeFaron

    6/4/2012 7:22:54 AM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] untamed_one Every spartan II has zero g thrusters and they always have. I highly doubt they will show up in gameplay unless theres some kind of space gameplay.[/quote] False completely and utterly. [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] biggie1212969 Uh, you should buy it because it's a Halo game? If you were a true fan, then you would buy it, not because it felt the same as the other halo games, but because it's a Halo game.[/quote] There is no definition to a "true halo fan." I consider myself a true halo fan and I dislike many things in halo 4 as shown currently, and how things are in glasslands. I agree with the "try the game, then judge 343.".
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    TheTrueMonarch

    TheTrueMonarch

    6/4/2012 7:03:57 AM Permalink
    Uh, you should buy it because it's a Halo game? If you were a true fan, then you would buy it, not because it felt the same as the other halo games, but because it's a Halo game.
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    Chicken Nugets

    Chicken Nugets

    6/3/2012 11:58:07 PM Permalink
    Who says the jetpack in the trailer needs to be justified. just because it's in the trailer doesn't immediately put it in to lore. In the actual game you could get a jetpack mid game and they simply wanted to show it off in the trailer. Just saying.
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    Darkone

    Darkone

    6/1/2012 8:44:35 PM Permalink
    [quote][b]Posted by:[/b] TheSilverhead Perhaps Cortana was preparing the new armor set and thrusters with the Forward Unto Dawn's onboard materials and robotics + whatever hit the ship in 4 years. Meantime, she was prepping Chief's 'OS' to recieve the upgrades via firmware changes. This could also explain the thruster. So, the reveal trailer COULD be wrong, and he popped out, slapped on the ready armor, THEN checked out the view (unlikely) OR Cortana brought him out of cryo once prior to outfit him. After all, he woke up from cryo rather quickly when Cortana needed him. I'd like to see you hop up after a 4 year nap with no intermission. Hehe. Just my 2 cents.[/quote] its gonna be exaclty like in halo 2 remember they showed his new armor in the trailer then explained how he got it within the first 10 minutes of the game.
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    Darkone

    Darkone

    6/1/2012 8:42:58 PM Permalink
    Every spartan II has zero g thrusters and they always have. I highly doubt they will show up in gameplay unless theres some kind of space gameplay. [Edited on 06.01.2012 12:47 PM PDT]
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    TheSilverhead

    TheSilverhead

    6/1/2012 2:30:47 AM Permalink
    Perhaps Cortana was preparing the new armor set and thrusters with the Forward Unto Dawn's onboard materials and robotics + whatever hit the ship in 4 years. Meantime, she was prepping Chief's 'OS' to recieve the upgrades via firmware changes. This could also explain the thruster. So, the reveal trailer COULD be wrong, and he popped out, slapped on the ready armor, THEN checked out the view (unlikely) OR Cortana brought him out of cryo once prior to outfit him. After all, he woke up from cryo rather quickly when Cortana needed him. I'd like to see you hop up after a 4 year nap with no intermission. Hehe. Just my 2 cents.
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    Cmdr DaeFaron

    Cmdr DaeFaron

    6/1/2012 2:18:23 AM Permalink
    Again, just watched the halo 3 after credits scene. Chief pushes himself off the walls. If he truly had thrusters, he would've used them there. And again, even if bungie always intended those to be thrusters, there would've been an indication of it. Instead of never mentioning it in any form of media. Also for the drop, if I push off a wall in space, then flail my arms about, my direction won't change. And the In Amber Clad most likely purposefully moved to intercept him as he'd never survive an atmospheric drop in the armor alone. So him pushing off and going toward the planet, then the frigate plotting a point to collide with him as he goes along that path doesn't require the suit to have thrusters. And again, I've never seen the shoulder pieces as thrusters. Never really placed a specific purpose to them, but they never struck me as thrusters. Especially since the halo 3 mark VI... opening at the top, (or a darker area), then there isn't a single darker area/opening below it. As somebody said, could've been a form of air vents, not a thruster. Oh, another thing with Halo 4 graphically. The grunts don't even appear to be the same race anymore. Fingers, toes, skin... it's different now. And you know, elites in the depressized Forward Unto Dawn wearing suits that aren't sealed... Edit: I mean... it's kinda a major update to simply never mention. Built in thrusters where the Mark V/IV required an additional pack put on to have that ability? MAJOR. As I've said once or twice. It's like taking something (lightsaber, phaser, 40k rifle) and suddenly going "Oh, it could always do that." (producing a ranged projectile of lightsaber enerygy, making a energy blade, or summoning the god-emperor's wrath). It just doesn't make sense for one. And it's bad story telling for the other. Cause then you have to create a "Why was this never used before then?" So, in a lore standing Roberto, why was the thrusters never used before. [Edited on 05.31.2012 6:29 PM PDT]
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    ROBERTO jh

    ROBERTO jh

    6/1/2012 1:55:54 AM Permalink
    I'm just telling you what Frankie said in an interview about the armor. If he says it's always been there, and there are the physical structures themselves in the past games to prove it, as well as it not directly contradicting anything, then I'm inclined to believe the guy whose job revolves around knowing more about the Halo canon than any of us. If he says they've always been there, then you're just going to have to deal with it I'm afraid. And it isn't like it's that big of a deal anyway. Some of the people here treat Halo like it was real life, or worse, like Star Trek fans. In the case of not showing the thrusters in Halo 3, it would have killed the mood of the Chief nearly falling to his death. "Oh he's got a jetpack? He's alright then. No biggie." Purely logical? Nope. But if you're looking for purely logical, Halo isn't for you. In the case of Halo 2, a simple explanation could be that practically nothing in Halo 2 was finished up to their ambitions. I feel the Halo 2 Cairo Station bit would have required either a CG cutscene or a lot of effort put into a small detail that happens only once, in a dev cycle that churned out half the game they were hoping for (literally half of the campaign levels are missing). Technology restraints, or any real world restraints, should not be considered canon. We never see the X-Wing's thrusters that allow it to maneuver like a plane, do we? But we know they're there, because they have to be. Just like the Master Chief's ability to maintain a perfectly straight, controlled drop onto the moving In Amber Clad despite the "single twitch=miles off course" physics of space imply some form of controlling mechanism. It is a lot of guess work, of course, but they are answers to an unimportant something not contradicted by anything anyway, and is in fact supported by in-canon devices on the armor's back. Edit below: ^^You are correct, a video, visual format. You're just further emphasizing my point. The human looking armor is a visual indicator of the man behind the mask. The physical change is symbolic of the character changes going on internally. Does it make sense realistically? No. But then, neither does every alien in the universe looking like a human counterpart, nor does ever alien in the universe having a very human outlook in their culture make any damn sense realistically either. The fun part about science fiction is that the themes you're working with can have a certain level of surrealism, or abstraction to it that a "realistic" story such as Tale of Two Cities could never have. It comes down to interpretation of those themes. If your interpretation of the storyteller's story is diferent from the storyteller's who are you, me or anyone else to argue what is and is not correct with the thematic representation of [i]their[/i] story? And again I refer you to the fact that some of you are taking such a minor detail as the armor's visual changes as unrealistic, in a universe with Gods, impossible technology and alien cultures that all suscpiciously mirror key human flaws, a little too seriously. [Edited on 05.31.2012 6:06 PM PDT]
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    Chrome TaterTot

    Chrome TaterTot

    6/1/2012 1:31:31 AM Permalink
    [quote]Posted by ROBERTO jh That link says they're used as packs for the IV and V. It's a wild guess, but that implies room for there to be an alternative for the VI. Such as it being pre-built. Whatever, it's not a big deal. It's built in now, no one can argue. No one ever said that it wasn't built in, only now that someone says it is does anyone care. The logic behind refusing to accept it is the same line of thought behind "I can't see it, therefore it does not exist." @I Em I Raptor You're correct, it is not about art. It is about John. Which is exactly why they changed the look. You can better see the man inside the suit with this interpretation where before you saw a green space robot with a manly voice. He's no longer as stiff as such a robot, and the human physicque overall comes out better. I've said it a thousand times but some people on this forum need to lighten up. What John's armor looks like is irrelevant to the story, it is just a different artistic interpretation from Bungie's. Take the Bungie loyalty/nostalgia glasses off and stop trying to make everything 343i does out as wrong. If you're this obsessive about everything, how do you seriously get any enjoyment out of life?[/quote] I have to disagree. The jetpack thing may not be a totally disproved concept, but introducing it to us now, after so many other circumstances have passed without it, is bad story telling and generally offensive to the audience in my opinion. As far as the chief's armor is concerned, the medium for the story is a "video game." I would like to emphasize the video part of that. The visuals are one of the largest parts of the story telling, second perhaps only to the gameplay itself. Changing the appearance of the main character so dramatically without explanation is just unacceptable. Apart from that, the whole "get to know the man" fad that games are going through now is extremely unappealing to me. The appeal of chief was that he WAS a faceless soldier whose boots you could step into and become. YOU were the chief. the reason he didn't convey a great deal of emotion or voice his opinion very much was because he was designed to be you. Your opinions and your feelings and your actions were what were motivating your character on the screen. There are countless other games that ripped you out of the story by having the main character have rash or strong opinions/emotions that were starkly contradictory to what you the player may have been feeling. Chief never did that, and it was intentional, and really quite beautifully done. [quote]Posted by ajw34307 I'm going to say to you what I've said to just about every other person who says what you say - I didn't see you complaining when Bungie completely overhauled Thel's armour from Halo 2 to 3, having it change colour, sprout a shoulder-mounted flashlight and mandible guards. There's no logical canonical explanation for that either, there's only ever 1 suit of armour for an Arbiter because the idea is that it's passed down from one Arbiter to another (thus no more than 1 suit is tailored at any given time). ------------------------------------------- That's funny because last time I checked, Frankie said that THERE WILL BE A CANONICAL EXPLANATION for the changes to John's armour.[/quote] There is a major difference between a minor visual change, like adding a shoulder piece to hold the flashlight for gameplay reasons, and completely overhauling the main characters suit of armor. I didn't even notice the Arbiter's armor was different for quite some time in halo 3, because it wasn't a striking and complete transformation to what it looked like previously. Plus, as long as there is reasoning and an actual, canon explanation behind the change than it's fine. ------------------------------------------------------------ That's about all I have to say about it. Thanks again for your time folks, and I hope you enjoyed the discussion before it got locked. To anyone I didn't specifically adress: You were likely repeating or reiterating what others said before you, and my opinions on the matter had already been adequately stated. To see if I agreed or disagreed you'll have to read the whole darn post, sorry! The verdict? I'll have to borrow it from someone else first to really see if those inconsistencies get decently addressed within the opening sequences of the game. If not, I just don't support the monstrosity halo will have become. A shame too since some of the ideas presented here seem promising. Unfortunately the story is the primary concern, and it is what makes or breaks the game for me. Thanks again! [Edited on 05.31.2012 6:34 PM PDT]
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